BoxRec

Pretty much how I see it as well.

Joe Louis defeated Al Ettore ( by KO)in September 1936
Al Ettore had previously defeated LeRoy Haynes in June 1936.
and two times in 1935 (all by UD)

Yep. Haynes did defeat Carnera twice. Ettore, Haynes, and most of the guys that we mentioned had their ups and downs.

interesting enough shortly after he won the Heavyweight Championship of the World (June 1937)
Joe Louis was offered by a Pittsburgh promoter 400,000 dollars purse to fight John Henry Lewis
but Mike Jacobs nixed the deal and Joe Louis instead fought Tommy Farr that August.
so how do you think John Henry Lewis would have done some 18 months earlier ?
because he was practically blind by cataracts in January 1939
and was holding out for the big pay day.

pound per pound wrote: ↑28 Jan 2021, 21:05

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jan 2021, 13:05 No he didn't avoided black fighters.

My opinion has changed. Louis only fought two black fighters in his 26 title matches, and one of them could not see well, the other likely beat him on points. Someone mentioned Franklin, yes he's one. Elmer Ray and Jimmy Bivins were both rated #1 and neither got a shot. Turkey Thompson is another one, better than some of those who receiver shots. So there are a lot of name here to consider.

Joe Louis fought Willie Davies three times (the first time in his second pro fight ,in which Willie Davis won the first round by out jabbing Joe Louis ,)
the second fight was May 3.1935 in Peoria Illinois
the third time in an exhibition match, where Joe Louis KO'd him again) who would become a sparring partner.
http://www.boxrec.com/en/proboxer/12103
Joe Louis (in his 20thpro fight)also fought Roscoe Toles had a pretty good fight record
http://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/12116

joe Louis also KO'd a Black fighter in 1936 in an exhibition named Paul Williams in New Orleans who was a last minute substitute for a White Fighter

Caractacus wrote: ↑23 Feb 2021, 16:57

pound per pound wrote: ↑28 Jan 2021, 21:05

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jan 2021, 13:05 No he didn't avoided black fighters.

My opinion has changed. Louis only fought two black fighters in his 26 title matches, and one of them could not see well, the other likely beat him on points. Someone mentioned Franklin, yes he's one. Elmer Ray and Jimmy Bivins were both rated #1 and neither got a shot. Turkey Thompson is another one, better than some of those who receiver shots. So there are a lot of name here to consider.

Joe Louis fought Willie Davies three times (the first time in his second pro fight ,in which Willie Davis won the first round by out jabbing Joe Louis ,)
the second fight was May 3.1935 in Peoria Illinois
the third time in an exhibition match, where Joe Louis KO'd him again) who would become a sparring partner.
http://www.boxrec.com/en/proboxer/12103
Joe Louis (in his 20thpro fight)also fought Roscoe Toles had a pretty good fight record
http://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/12116

joe Louis also KO'd a Black fighter in 1936 in an exhibition named Paul Williams in New Orleans who was a last minute substitute for a White Fighter

I am talking about the best when he held the title, not Willie Davies or Rosce Toles, notches below the best African Americans to give title shots too,

yeah sure, you may be talking about that,but it's not what the dude (Marchgeiano1952)
who started this thread may have been talking about.

Caractacus wrote: ↑23 Feb 2021, 16:55 interesting enough shortly after he won the Heavyweight Championship of the World (June 1937)
Joe Louis was offered by a Pittsburgh promoter 400,000 dollars purse to fight John Henry Lewis
but Mike Jacobs nixed the deal and Joe Louis instead fought Tommy Farr that August.
so how do you think John Henry Lewis would have done some 18 months earlier ?
because he was practically blind by cataracts in January 1939
and was holding out for the big pay day.

I doubt if Joe Louis got a bonified offer of $400,000. from a Pittsburgh promoter to fight John Henry Lewis during 1937. At the time, I don't think that there had been a bout that drew a gate as much as $100,000 in Pittsburgh. Moreover, such a bout would have taken place during the Great Depression.

- Chuck Johnston

It wouldn't shock me if some promoter made the claim, but I agree with the assessment that it was absolutely unrealistic. With regard to an earlier match, I suspect it goes a little bit longer and is actually a lot more painful for Lewis.

I've always heard that Louis went all out on the challenger because he knew Lewis needed the last payday and carrying him along would've caused more damage to his friend. At an earlier time, when Lewis' vision wasn't so diminished (or at least it wasn't known), Louis probably wouldn't have been quite so determined and as a result, the punishment would've gone on longer.

As was said by another many posts back, this original question seems uncomplicated. Louis would've faced anybody at any time. However, his management likely wanted the paths of least resistance and greater money.

Do you want answers? Do you want the truth?

Louis only defended his title against two African Americans in 26 title defenses, One could not see well ( John Henry Louis ), the other probably beat him in their first fight. ( Walcott ). These fights had better than average gates, so the theory he could not make money does not apply.

Boxers such as Elmer Ray and Jimmy Bivins achieved a rank of #1, Louis gave either a title shot. This sort of stinks.

Numerous bum of the month types got title shots. Lem Franklin, or Turkey Thompson need not apply.

Summary.

The numbers bury him. Only 2 of 26? He made more on average vs African American fighters than you think. None of the would have been nice tyes made the cut but many of their white counterparts did. Something was up, you can decide to what degree.

The first fight with Jersey Joe Walcott was originally suppose to be an exhibition.

just thought bump this up

Why?
This subject has been talked about to death.

"4 times better then Joe Louis !"
that is what LeRoy Haynes manager Pete Moran proclaimed
after Haynes knocked out Primo Carnera for the second time in 1936.
Louis vrs Haynes late 1936 or early 1937.
I think that fight would have drawn a HUGE gate.