Chris Eubank or Carl Froch ?

[margaret thatcher]

froch's chin was obviously very good, but he was down a couple times and hurt a couple more at 168. he wasnt a total undentable iron man and part of what he had that made him so tough was recovery and the will to fight through adversities

eubank was that slight bit tougher to hurt in the first place though


the highest level is the one where the guys arent even going down and dont even need to show much recovery, like provodnikov, wach, chuvalo, mccall, ggg etc

The Groves knockdown was a fight ending shot. Everyone who’s been in with George says his power is frightening. Murray said much harder than GGG. Callum Smith said them just whistling past his ears was enough. The Froch knockdown was full power with Carl walking on to it.

insteresting that murray says that when groves couldnt put him down at al or stop himl but ggg did twice and finished him. he was a good puncher for sure, but dont think his results in the ring really show a massive puncher

i bet gutnechkt's family wishes he was, but like the Murray fight georgie just landed tons and tons of clean shots round after round without getting the guy out of there or putting him down. george was really pounding on chudinov too when he stopped him on his feet without dropping him ever. couldnt get any of badou jack's respect either and never dented him at all, even though badou had been stopped previously

or did groves lose his power for some reason?

[mickey1975]

Didn’t Chris go over 3 times at 12st.

[margaret thatcher]

btw....that reminds me of the classic phenomenon where a fighter says his best opponent was someone he beat rather than the guy that schooled him

[margaret thatcher]

Actually, looking at Groves record, i'd say froch is funny enough the only guy above british level he managed to even drop. Never visibly bothered Jack or Degale or Eubank with his power, absolutely pounded on Murray and Gutenecht and Chudinov round after round but couldnt put any of them down, couldnt put Callum down or discourage him

a fighter of Froch's level and durability going down is rather anomalous considering none of these guys did, but hey it happens in boxing

[dookus]

Actually, looking at Groves record, i'd say he never scored a notably big ko over anyone euro level or above. Never visibly bothered Jack or Degale or Eubank with his power, absolutely pounded on Murray and Gutenecht and Chudinov round after round but couldnt put any of them down, couldnt put Callum down or discourage him

In fact, a fighter of Froch's level and durability going down is rather anomalous considering none of these guys did, but hey it happens in boxing

Aside from Froch, who is the best fighter George has had down? You'd really expect something more from a 'massive' puncher who lands a lot of clean shots. tbh i wonder now if the froch fight flatters gg's power a bit. maybe just got cold and overconfident walking into a shot

Groves should have had two knockdowns counted against Eubank Jr. Chidunov was clearly well out on his feet at the stoppage (and for the previous 20 seconds) and nobody else has looked like stopping him.

Jack is an odd one - yes, he did have that 1st-round stoppage to an unknown. Has never looked remotely that fragile since. Probably caught cold.

[margaret thatcher]

He didn't have any, and the one that I remembe r being arguable was basically Eubank being off balance while getting hit with a jab, clearly one of those flash-balance issues and hardly from some cracking shot

Groves's record is way shorter on power than I had thought it was tbh, pretty much any fight above british level and he showed little notable power at all---except for the first Froch fight

You'd think surely he would've been laying guys out more/harder/faster if he really was a massive world level puncher, considering how many shots he'd land

[margaret thatcher]

Actually, looking at Groves record, i'd say he never scored a notably big ko over anyone euro level or above. Never visibly bothered Jack or Degale or Eubank with his power, absolutely pounded on Murray and Gutenecht and Chudinov round after round but couldnt put any of them down, couldnt put Callum down or discourage him

In fact, a fighter of Froch's level and durability going down is rather anomalous considering none of these guys did, but hey it happens in boxing

Aside from Froch, who is the best fighter George has had down? You'd really expect something more from a 'massive' puncher who lands a lot of clean shots. tbh i wonder now if the froch fight flatters gg's power a bit. maybe just got cold and overconfident walking into a shot

Groves should have had two knockdowns counted against Eubank Jr. Chidunov was clearly well out on his feet at the stoppage (and for the previous 20 seconds) and nobody else has looked like stopping him.

Jack is an odd one - yes, he did have that 1st-round stoppage to an unknown. Has never looked remotely that fragile since. Probably caught cold.

Pascal dropped him and Stevenson and Browne hurt him, so I disagree on that

Groves was absolutely wailing away with clean shots on Chudinov and the guy was still on his feet. Not really showing massive world level power there. what other opponents has chduinov really fought for comparison? his next best are non punching middleweights, not really a big deal that they werent stopping him

[coghaugen11]

Both extremely tough fighters,the one thing that sepertaes them is Eubank was hit by a huge punching cruiserweight and stood up,Froch can't say the same,although it's very likely he could have but we'll never know.

He couldn’t have. That’s just sick and sadistic.

[coghaugen11]

Didn’t Chris go over 3 times at 12st.

Balance with Collins, cold with Calzaghe, accumulation/exhaustion/one knee with Watson - up instantly each one. Balance with Benn (slip) too. Up straight away with head clear each time.

[dookus]

Actually, looking at Groves record, i'd say he never scored a notably big ko over anyone euro level or above. Never visibly bothered Jack or Degale or Eubank with his power, absolutely pounded on Murray and Gutenecht and Chudinov round after round but couldnt put any of them down, couldnt put Callum down or discourage him

In fact, a fighter of Froch's level and durability going down is rather anomalous considering none of these guys did, but hey it happens in boxing

Aside from Froch, who is the best fighter George has had down? You'd really expect something more from a 'massive' puncher who lands a lot of clean shots. tbh i wonder now if the froch fight flatters gg's power a bit. maybe just got cold and overconfident walking into a shot

Groves should have had two knockdowns counted against Eubank Jr. Chidunov was clearly well out on his feet at the stoppage (and for the previous 20 seconds) and nobody else has looked like stopping him.

Jack is an odd one - yes, he did have that 1st-round stoppage to an unknown. Has never looked remotely that fragile since. Probably caught cold.

Pascal dropped him and Stevenson and Browne hurt him, so I disagree on that

Groves was absolutely wailing away with clean shots on Chudinov and the guy was still on his feet. Not really showing massive world level power there. what other opponents has chduinov really fought for comparison? his next best are non punching middleweights, not really a big deal that they werent stopping him

Or perhaps Chudinov is just extremely tough and can only be stopped on his feet like Chuvalo. Who knows. I'm going to take the multiple interviews with Groves' opponents talking about his scary one-punch power as pretty good evidence that it exists, even if he couldn't always seem to land it. Shavers is generally regarded as the biggest one-shot hitter in HW history and also hardly stopped anyone decent, so it's not exactly unprecedented.

[margaret thatcher]

degale dropped jack too, id forgotten about that

[margaret thatcher]

Groves should have had two knockdowns counted against Eubank Jr. Chidunov was clearly well out on his feet at the stoppage (and for the previous 20 seconds) and nobody else has looked like stopping him.

Jack is an odd one - yes, he did have that 1st-round stoppage to an unknown. Has never looked remotely that fragile since. Probably caught cold.

Pascal dropped him and Stevenson and Browne hurt him, so I disagree on that

Groves was absolutely wailing away with clean shots on Chudinov and the guy was still on his feet. Not really showing massive world level power there. what other opponents has chduinov really fought for comparison? his next best are non punching middleweights, not really a big deal that they werent stopping him

Or perhaps Chudinov is just extremely tough and can only be stopped on his feet like Chuvalo. Who knows. I'm going to take the multiple interviews with Groves' opponents talking about his scary one-punch power as pretty good evidence that it exists, even if he couldn't always seem to land it. Shavers is generally regarded as the biggest one-shot hitter in HW history and also hardly stopped anyone decent, so it's not exactly unprecedented.

the fighters talking about his scary one shot power:

-one of them he pounded with clean shot after shot for 12 rounds but couldnt put down
-the other he never looked close to dropping or visibly hurting or even being able to back up

couldnt hurt jack or degale or eubank, couldnt put down murray or gutnechkt or chud despite landing tons


the facts are, staying on your feet vs groves for the whole fight was the norm vs anyone above british level, froch was the only guy who got leveled

[margaret thatcher]

shavers couldnt cut it vs better opponents because of a lack of skill to land regularly and sometimes chin, it was hardly as if he'd pound guys for round after round with clean shots but not be able to put them over

his type of power would've lead to a better outcome for a guy like gutnechkt

[mickey1975]

I think I’ll stick with his opponents opinions, too.

[bigjack]

Both extremely tough fighters,the one thing that sepertaes them is Eubank was hit by a huge punching cruiserweight and stood up,Froch can't say the same,although it's very likely he could have but we'll never know.

He couldn’t have. That’s just sick and sadistic.

I was trying to please the Froch fans lol

[coghaugen11]

Hard one they both had good chins Eubank stood up to bigger men , but Froch fought the best of his era ,, Benn for me does'nt come into it , i always thought Benn was a great British / European level fighter he would'nt have a bar of the best around at the time , remember in an interview , Toney calling him out and saying Benns not fought anyone good , to which Benn replied yes i have i fought De witt ,, said it all really

The same DeWitt who gave peak Tommy Hearns a tough close fight over the distance, and bashed up former lb4lb rated Matt Hilton the fight before (who was said to have the hardest left hook in boxing)?

[coghaugen11]

The one sided beating Benn gave DeWitt petrified the Americans. Even Barkey struggled to look him in the eye, their hardest man of all.

[margaret thatcher]

They can say whatever, look at what actually happened in the ring: jack, degale, smith, murray, gutnechkt, jr, chudinov---not one of them even counted despite being hit plenty by this world level monster puncher . poor gut's fate is exactly what happens when a guy lacks that finishing power and instead delivers shot after shot for 12

Froch was the only one above british who he levelled, and that's a fact, regardless of what any opponents say. So it's not like we can say Froch got dropped hard by a guy who was doing it to all sorts of good, sturdy fighters


Btw, GGG actually dropped Murray, twice, and stopped him, and did it to a fresher version. Groves landed the kitchen sink and couldnt drop him once or stop him. I'll go with what actually happened in the ring and not some retrospective interview, fighters do it all the time, like when they say their best opponent is someone they beat and not the guy that schooled them. you even have floyd, whos said his toughest opponent was emmanul augustus (who he totally breezed against and stopped) and not the guys who genuinely pushed him

action > words

[mickey1975]

They can say whatever, look at what actually happened in the ring: jack, degale, smith, murray, gutnechkt, jr, chudinov---not one of them even counted despite being hit plenty by this world level monster puncher . poor gut's fate is exactly what happens when a guy lacks that finishing power and instead delivers shot after shot for 12

Froch was the only one above british who he levelled, and that's a fact, regardless of what any opponents say. So it's not like we can say Froch got dropped hard by a guy who was doing it to all sorts of good, sturdy fighters


Btw, GGG actually dropped Murray, twice, and stopped him, and did it to a fresher version. Groves landed the kitchen sink and couldnt drop him once or stop him. I'll go with what actually happened in the ring and not some retrospective interview, fighters do it all the time, like when they say their best opponent is someone they beat and not the guy that schooled them. you even have floyd, whos said his toughest opponent was emmanul augustus (who he totally breezed against and stopped) and not the guys who genuinely pushed him

action > words

Thanks for letting us all know what happened in those fights.

[margaret thatcher]

Yep, and what happened > interviews afterward

Actions > words

[Nightmare Roy]

Bit like saying who is better out of messi and Ronaldo, both two of the best, probably lean towards Snr because of the Benn and Thomson fights

[Terminator666]

Personally I reckon Froch would have the edge in actual fights but it might have took a trilogy to prove it. Three close fights with Froch doing a bit more

[Deserter]

The one sided beating Benn gave DeWitt petrified the Americans. Even Barkey struggled to look him in the eye, their hardest man of all.

I love Benn, but that simply isn't true. It also misses the point that around the time Benn beat Dewitt most of the top 10 middleweights weren't American, McCallum and Kalambay being two prime examples.

[Controversial]

Btw, GGG actually dropped Murray, twice, and stopped him, and did it to a fresher version. Groves landed the kitchen sink and couldnt drop him once or stop him.

A recent podcast of Tris Dixon was an interview with Murray, he was asked who the hardest puncher was and he said Groves was a harder one punch hitter (right hand) than GGG but all of GGG punches hurt and he was more consistent and accurate.

Personally I think Froch had a better chin. His defence wasn't great and he ate a lot of punches and kept coming forward, Eubank wouldn't take so many flush punches and would often go on walkabouts mid fight.

How you fight can make your chin look better, defensive fighters don't tend to take many risks and therefore don't get caught. Journeymen who come to survive don't necessarily have world class chins, again they just don't put themselves in harms way. Yet an all out aggressive fighter could have a better chin but more likely to get countered, Benn certainly fell into that category in his early fights.

[Boxerbeetle]

They can say whatever, look at what actually happened in the ring: jack, degale, smith, murray, gutnechkt, jr, chudinov---not one of them even counted despite being hit plenty by this world level monster puncher . poor gut's fate is exactly what happens when a guy lacks that finishing power and instead delivers shot after shot for 12

Froch was the only one above british who he levelled, and that's a fact, regardless of what any opponents say. So it's not like we can say Froch got dropped hard by a guy who was doing it to all sorts of good, sturdy fighters


Btw, GGG actually dropped Murray, twice, and stopped him, and did it to a fresher version. Groves landed the kitchen sink and couldnt drop him once or stop him. I'll go with what actually happened in the ring and not some retrospective interview, fighters do it all the time, like when they say their best opponent is someone they beat and not the guy that schooled them. you even have floyd, whos said his toughest opponent was emmanul augustus (who he totally breezed against and stopped) and not the guys who genuinely pushed him

action > words

Was Murray only down twice against GGG? I could have sworn he was dropped about 4 or 5 times