BoxRec

apollo creed wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 06:39

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 12:03

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 07:46

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 05:09

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 13:56That being said there aren't 10 boxers currently in the sport who are better or more accomplished than him.

Are there 10 boxers that have accomplished more than Crawford has within the last 3½ years?

Don’t get me wrong, Crawford’s talent isn't up for debate. He’s clearly a very good fighter.

However, as the old adage goes…

"Talent" is useless unless it’s proven…. And "potential" is useless unless it’s fulfilled!”

And like you said before, Crawford is treading water. Bud is continuously engaging in meaningless bouts against subpar opposition.

Therefore, is there an expiry date that’ll compel you to lose your patience with him, if he keeps facing underwhelming opposition?

Crawford isn’t going to engage in a marquee bout before his contract expires with Top Rank in October, which means that more than four years would have transpired since his 140lbs title unification victory over Julius Indongo.

Are you going to keep giving him the benefit of the doubt? Five years, six years, seven years, indefinitely?

If he still keeps treading water like he is I would think he would ultimately sink out of the Top 10 or somebody would rise past him by default within 5 years. It'd be a Sad statement on the Sport if nobody is able to do better work than what he's doing in the next 5 years.

I'm not "giving him the benefit of the doubt" anyway. As it is he's more accomplished than a lot of guys in the sport, but I rank him under Canelo, Errol Spence, Teofimo Lopez, Oleksandr Usyk and possibly Naoya Inoue, and even Vasyl Lomachenko still too. So he's going down.

Soon he'll have to sh*t or get off the pot. As they say.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 05:23

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 05:11

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 05:09
Are there 10 boxers that have accomplished more than Crawford has within the last 3½ years?

Don’t get me wrong, Crawford’s talent isn't up for debate. He’s clearly a very good fighter.

However, as the old adage goes…

"Talent" is useless unless it’s proven…. And "potential" is useless unless it’s fulfilled!”

And like you said before, Crawford is treading water. Bud is continuously engaging in meaningless bouts against subpar opposition.

Therefore, is there an expiry date that’ll compel you to lose your patience with him, if he keeps facing underwhelming opposition?

Crawford isn’t going to engage in a marquee bout before his contract expires with Top Rank expires in October, which means that more than four years would have transpired since his 140lbs title unification victory over Julius Indongo.

Are you going to keep giving him the benefit of the doubt? Five years, six years, seven years, indefinitely?

What's your top 10 p4p look like my man?

1. Saul Alvarez
2. Naoya Inoue
3. Errol Spence Jr.
4. Oleksandr Usyk
5. Teofimo Lopez
6. Vasiliy Lomachenko
7. Juan Francisco Estrada
8. Tyson Fury
9. Kazuto Ioka
10. Josh Taylor

Honourable mentions: Gervonta Davis, Jermell Charlo and Shakur Stevenson.

I’m not overly-passionate about my ratings from seventh to tenth place, because a decent argument can be made to fill those slots with seven or eight names.

When I look at my personal current pound-for-pound ratings, I’m compelled to only consider those that have recently scored a notable victory... and it's only then that I'll consider the quality of their resume, accomplishments etc.

Time doesn't stand still. And real-world actions mean far more to me than faith or reputation alone.

Crawford accomplished more in the weight class that Taylor is currently competing in. I could see ranking Fury over him. I think it's a stretch with Ioka and Estrada big time, I couldn't have them over Crawford, and Gervonta Davis isn't even in the P4P conversation yet. His biggest win is over a smaller fighter who was moving up. Shakur Stevenson has done f*ck all of nothing to be P4P worthy or even near it. Jermell Charlo he's doing good work at 154, and I could see him having a spot in the lower half of the Top 10.

Crawford's gotta be there just on what he's accomplished already. 3 weight World Champion, Undisputed at 140. His Welterweight resume has left a lot to be desired, but he's done good work. Once his contract with Arum expires he'll have no further excuses for not fighting top opposition.

EO: "Talent" is useless unless it’s proven…. And "potential" is useless unless it’s fulfilled!”

No doubt!

Imo a good example of a fighter that proved his talent and his potential although he was avoided when he was younger by other champions is Golovkin who fought Lemieux, Jacobs, CaneloX2 and Chenko.


As for Crawford, its obvious that he pretty much just beat some decent level of competition (Horn, Benavidez Jr, etc) and not the top of the ww division. But I think it's not TC's fault in this situation. First let's see what he does after his contract with TR expires. When?

Riddick Blowe wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 13:39

apollo creed wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 06:39

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 12:03

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑20 Feb 2021, 07:25

Riddick Blowe wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 13:39

apollo creed wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021, 06:39

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 06:31
Thoughts?

When people say Crawford hasn't done 'anything' since 2017 that's not true. He's 5-0 with 5 KOs. They're all people he should beat but he didn't just beat them, he demolished them. In the same period Pac is 3-0 with a KO and a split decision. Thurman is an impressive win but Mathysse was washed up and Broner's a joke. Then you go back to 2017 and he lost to Horn, who Crawford demolished in impressive fashion. Horn's decision over Pacquiao was a joke but it's still a win for Horn and Pac didn't manage the KO. I don't see how you can rate Pacquiao clearly ahead of Crawford.

It's the same thing with other guys on these P4P lists. Crawford may not be fighting world class opposition but he's beating the crap out of 'regional class' guys that are just as good as most of the people other top P4P fighters are facing. He deserves all the criticism he gets for not fighting the best and may not deserve to be in the top 5 P4P but he's deserving of top 10. Probably ranks in the 4-7 range. He could drop quite a bit further then that over the next year or two if he doesn't start facing world class opposition, the Brook matchup was silly. With the epidemic a lot of fighters are inactive or have changed their usual activity patterns it makes it harder to make this kind of list.

Shakur Stevenson honorable mention but not Crawford

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑20 Feb 2021, 09:27 Shakur Stevenson honorable mention but not Crawford

Shakur has done jack all of sh*t.

of course he does he has beat his competition with ease in different weights as well

Yes...I hope a fight between him and Spence Jr will show us who is #1....

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑21 Feb 2021, 01:42 Yes...I hope a fight between him and Spence Jr will show us who is #1....

I'm not sure that fight would be for #1 P4P status at this point, but it'd still be big.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑21 Feb 2021, 01:43

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑21 Feb 2021, 01:42 Yes...I hope a fight between him and Spence Jr will show us who is #1....

I'm not sure that fight would be for #1 P4P status at this point, but it'd still be big.

Oh yeah!!!

They're never fighting, but I definitely would have the winner #1.

Manny Pacquiao recently claimed he’s likely to face Mikey Garcia next, which would fulfil the final bout of his deal with the PBC.

Terence Crawford has also claimed he has no interest in facing Errol Spence Jr. Apparently he feels his legacy “doesn’t need” him.

Bud also said that he’s not interested in facing Vergil Ortiz Jr. either, arguing that he has “got to work his way up” the rankings and “earn his shot.”

Meanwhile, Terence Crawford is on the cusp of celebrating his two-year anniversary of his victory over Amir Khan, which means that very soon we’ll be able to claim that he’s only fought twice within the last two years.

He hasn’t got a fight lined-up and Crawford’ contract with Top Rank expires within the next six months.

Shawn Porter is Crawford’s mandatory challenger. And I assume that Top Rank will be forced to make that bout when the WBO finally imposes the deadline.

So there’s a glimmer of hope that we’ll finally get to see Crawford face his very first top-five world-rated opponent for almost four years.

Can you provide the name of one of the top-ten pound-for-pound elite that possesses a weaker resume than Terence Crawford’s four-year stint at welterweight?

Or do you feel that time stands still? And that form is permanent, which means you believe that fighter’s don’t need to keep testing themselves against top-tier elite-level opposition?

If we review resumes/accomplishments between the 20th August 2017 and the current date, which of these fighters best wins during that timeframe is weaker than Terence Crawford’s biggest victory over the equivalent period?

• Canelo Alvarez
• Naoya Inoue
• Oleksandr Usyk
• Errol Spence Jr.
• Teofimo Lopez
• Juan Francisco Estrada
• Vasiliy Lomachenko
• Josh Taylor
• Kazuto Ioka
• Tyson Fury
• Gennady Golovkin
• Gervonta Davis
• Roman Gonzalez
• Manny Pacquiao
• Artur Beterbiev
• Jermell Charlo
• Mikey Garcia
• Shakur Stevenson

Sure big guy, we get it. We never got enough chance to agree with you at great length back in February, so it was well worth revisiting your old thread just in case someone now wants to write a long essay in total agreement with you, nice thread save bro this gem could have gone off into obscurity without that, thank god.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑22 Mar 2021, 05:53 Sure big guy, we get it. We never got enough chance to agree with you at great length back in February, so it was well worth revisiting your old thread just in case someone now wants to write a long essay in total agreement with you, nice thread save bro this gem could have gone off into obscurity without that, thank god.

Manny Pacquiao confirming he's likely to face Mikey Garcia next. Porter and Bud sharing comments about a potential fight. And Crawford's disinterest in facing Spence Jr. and Ortiz Jr. are all developments that occurred over the weekend.

It's better to update an existing Terence Crawford thread with this new information than to create a new one.

If Crawford is not interested in facing (or his handlers aren't seriously attempting to make fights against) certain marquee names competing within his own weight division, then doesn't that undermine his pound-for-pound credentials?

The Julio Indongo fight happened almost four years ago. Crawford hasn't scored a noteable victory since his twenties. And he would have turned 34 years of age by the time his contract with Top Rank expires in six months time.

'Yes' at 79%.

Still think Crawford - Spence can be big fight, maybe on Canelo-GGG level. But good news is that dangerous guys like Jaron Ennis and Vergil Ortiz are in spotlights now. Both Spence and Crawford cannot avoid fighting each other or fighting against these guys for very long time.

After this absolutely insignificant update, I'm moving Bud up to #1 in the Butthurt Boxer rankings, replacing GGG who slips to #2

Of the actual p4p rankings, as words and listing potential opponents can now have an effect on the rankings, maybe stick Anthony Joshua in at #9 due to him indicating he wants to fight Tyson Fury next.

We have to remember that pfp rankings are opinions based on performance. That said I was surprised to read one of the more recognizable sports writers, Chris Williams I think it was? say he didn't even have Crawford in his top ten, because he has yet to have a win over ANY top welter. He said his best win was Gamboa.

I guess there is some truth to that. Crawford himself said he is past trying to get Spence as an opponent, and doesn't seem interested in Porter. I think a lot of Crawford, admire his skill, and do think he is a top pfp guy, but he does need to prove it. He offered Khan $5 million but Porter only $1 million? I think he offered D. Garcia $3 million? There is more ways to say you don't want a fight, and if you want fights at his level, you will make them. Spence offered him a 60/40. Why not take the 40 if you are confident, and command the bigger chunk from then on?

What i love about EO is he has the following opinions on boxing:

1) canelo is great and can do no wrong
2) big heavyweights are better
3) ggg and crawford have fought poor competition

Thats about it. And with those 3 topics he writes and writes and writes and never convinces anyone hes right because nobody reads his posts.

Imagine waking up and having those 3 thoughts and only those 3 thoughts and needing to write weekly short stories on them.

Its funny and also sad