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Re: The great non champions
Posted: 26 Feb 2021, 20:01
by Crease
From Ireland, we've had a few crackers who never quite made it to World Champion honours...
Bernard Dunne looked well on his way but he suffered two really crushing losses... Maybe a case of the wrong fights at the wrong time.
Eamon Magee had the tools to be a Great but his partying lifestyle really let him down.
And I would definitely say the same about Darren Corbett... Corbie was probably a World-Class Super Middleweight trapped in the body of a flabby Cruiserweight...
Paul McCloskey can and should have done more...
Ah, i think I'm just going in to favourtism now...
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 26 Feb 2021, 20:02
by margaret thatcher
dunne won some version of a world title, in an excellent fight vs a panamanian where he got off the canvas twice, then got ko'd in 3 in his first defense
never thought much of mccloskey tbh, he did well to reach a euro title, getting ko'd by 100 year old corley
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 26 Feb 2021, 20:07
by margaret thatcher
while on oi'erland, you always gotta wonder about what darren sutherland coulda done.........shame
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 26 Feb 2021, 20:22
by AntonioMartin
I just saw on TV, and therefore, remembered..Rocky Juarez!
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 27 Feb 2021, 05:28
by Woldemar
Featherweights :
Pat Ford
Pat Cowdell
Light Welter:
Valery Kayumba
Jan Piet Bergman
Heavyweights:
Bert Cooper
Bantamweights :
Johhny Armour
Roberto Rubaldino
Flyweights :
Francis Ampofo
Cruiserweights :
Bash Ali
David Izegwire
Alexander Alekseev
Alexander Frenkel
Akim Tafer
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 27 Feb 2021, 12:19
by Crease
There was a vast wealth of title at Welterweight back when their was only one Championship, so a lot of class fighters missed out...
I was going to say Marty Servo, but he was The Champ. Whatabout Charley Fusari? He was knocking about the top tier for a long while...
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 27 Feb 2021, 17:08
by Stevieaber
From the Uk: Colin Jones, Dave Charnley, Herol Graham.
From the US: Bad Bennie Briscoe, Yaqui Lopez
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 02:50
by AntonioMartin
Stevieaber wrote: ↑27 Feb 2021, 17:08
From the Uk: Colin Jones, Dave Charnley, Herol Graham.
From the US: Bad Bennie Briscoe, Yaqui Lopez
Those guys were quality!
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 12:20
by Ambling Alp II
None were great though. Many guys mentioned were not. There is a huge difference between say Sam Langford and say Benny Briscoe or Colin Jones.
Most great fighters who were non-Champions are going to black fighters from way, way back like Langford, Jeannette, McVey etc. Or someone from not quite as far back who were unlucky when there was only one champion per weight class, and less weight classes.
Not sure if there was a "great" non-champion in the last 70 years.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 14:39
by Syntax Error
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑01 Mar 2021, 12:20
None were great though. Many guys mentioned were not. There is a huge difference between say Sam Langford and say Benny Briscoe or Colin Jones.
Most great fighters who were non-Champions are going to black fighters from way, way back like Langford, Jeannette, McVey etc. Or someone from not quite as far back who were unlucky when there was only one champion per weight class, and less weight classes.
Not sure if there was a "great" non-champion in the last 70 years.
Don't you agree about Herol Graham?
He could easily have been a champion with a bit more luck.
He certainly had more ability than many so-called champions.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 16:01
by Ambling Alp II
He was not a great fighter. Certainly than some "champions". Not a great fighter.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 16:50
by Onetimeonly
Yeah, better thread title would be best. Some of the initial list weren't particularly good and how Langford wouldn't be included is baffling.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 20:42
by AntonioMartin
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Mar 2021, 16:50
Yeah, better thread title would be best. Some of the initial list weren't particularly good and how Langford wouldn't be included is baffling.
Just a case of forgetfulness.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 20:43
by AntonioMartin
How about Jim Johnson? Held the "other Johnson", Jack to a draw for the world title back in the day..
And Fireman Jim Flynn is supposed to have been a great one also...
Also no one has mentioned Ruben Castillo yet....he had a very good run and lost 4 times for the title but three of those were to some of the absolute, top 50+ of all times...
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 01:32
by DavidKehler
This is such a terrific thread! It leads to debates about who was great and raises questions about the arc of a boxer's career, when greatness may have been fleeting, and whether won-loss records are true measures of greatness.
Here are ten who come immediately to mind:
Packy McFarland #036384
Mike Gibbons #011267
Dave Shade #013658
Eduardo Lausee #010911
Young Stribling #012052
George Benton #016258
Billy Graham #009689
Ace Hudkins #013688
Robert Villemain #011078
Joey Giambra #016494
I particularly appreciated the mention in previous posts of Dave Sands #024688 and Lew Tendler #011936.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 10:46
by HeavyHitters
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 12:56
by bwu
Joey Archer?
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 13:15
by AntonioMartin
DavidKehler wrote: ↑02 Mar 2021, 01:32
This is such a terrific thread! It leads to debates about who was great and raises questions about the arc of a boxer's career, when greatness may have been fleeting, and whether won-loss records are true measures of greatness.
Here are ten who come immediately to mind:
Packy McFarland #036384
Mike Gibbons #011267
Dave Shade #013658
Eduardo Lausee #010911
Young Stribling #012052
George Benton #016258
Billy Graham #009689
Ace Hudkins #013688
Robert Villemain #011078
Joey Giambra #016494
I particularly appreciated the mention in previous posts of Dave Sands #024688 and Lew Tendler #011936.
Thanks man!
Stribling is in the IBHOF IIRC..
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 13:16
by AntonioMartin
bwu wrote: ↑02 Mar 2021, 12:56Joey Archer?
Yeah he held a win over SRR..(a super old SRR I admit!) and lost twice on split decisions for the world title!!
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 13:16
by AntonioMartin
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 13:17
by AntonioMartin
I forgot Ringooooooooooooooooooo! Dropped Frazier twice and gave him and Ali hell...
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 16:24
by Woldemar
Earnie Shavers
Ron Lyle
Jimmy Young
Jerry Quarry
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Mar 2021, 20:01
by Onetimeonly
AntonioMartin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2021, 20:42
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Mar 2021, 16:50
Yeah, better thread title would be best. Some of the initial list weren't particularly good and how Langford wouldn't be included is baffling.
Just a case of forgetfulness.
Fair enough, but you forgot all of the great ones.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Mar 2021, 22:06
by AntonioMartin
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Mar 2021, 20:01
AntonioMartin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2021, 20:42
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Mar 2021, 16:50
Yeah, better thread title would be best. Some of the initial list weren't particularly good and how Langford wouldn't be included is baffling.
Just a case of forgetfulness.
Fair enough, but you forgot all of the great ones.
Well, I did forget Jim Johnson and Fireman Jim Flynn on the original post too....
That's the thing about this thread, though....trying to bring out the non champion legends, the fighters that either beat a world champ or two (or three) or had many chances for a title and were oh so close or who became household names without being champs, the "great non-champions" so to speak.
And, I heard Jimmy Bivins was also a great one (Hall of Famer).
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Mar 2021, 22:18
by Onetimeonly
AntonioMartin wrote: ↑03 Mar 2021, 22:06
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Mar 2021, 20:01
AntonioMartin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2021, 20:42
Just a case of forgetfulness.
Fair enough, but you forgot all of the great ones.
Well, I did forget Jim Johnson and Fireman Jim Flynn on the original post too....
That's the thing about this thread, though....trying to bring out the non champion legends, the fighters that either beat a world champ or two (or three) or had many chances for a title and were oh so close or who became household names without being champs, the "great non-champions" so to speak.
And, I heard Jimmy Bivins was also a great one (Hall of Famer).
Bivins, burley, Holman Williams, packet McFarland, wills, Jeanette, McVey, Driscoll, stribling, Mina, Mike gibbons, Darcy, Booker, all fit the bill along with Langford as being clearly superior to anyone you listed.
