Controversial wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 10:45
Whyte said in a recent interview he has been VADA tested twice in the last few days.
What good is that? Nobody with half a brain would not have cycled off by now. How many times was he tested during training camp?
Absolutely, you need to be tested a minimum 8 weeks (12 weeks would be the gold standard) - this interim vada testing does nothing for me.
I have to make it clear if both have agreed to no testing, I have no problems!
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 24 Mar 2021, 16:24
by polecateddy
kbackup408 wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 15:33
I mentioned this a few years ago and don't think its mentioned or talked about enough, TUE's.
Therapeutic Use Exemptions - you would be surprised how many boxers are allowed certain substances.
Route A to get a TUE, would be to crash the body’s natural testosterone production through taking cycles of anabolic steroids or SARMS. The sporting advantage to getting say a twice weekly testosterone injection legally, even with levels in the normal to high normal testosterone range, is quite significant over an athlete/boxer who is natural, because the natural athlete will have lots of dips due to their diurnal rhythm. It’s effectively legalised cheating.
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 04:36
by MightyWarrior
Anything goes on the rock, both of em prob juiced to the gills, who cares it’s just a couple of journey men plodders - Pov about ready to join the Tyson Holy Roy jones old men circus act after this
kbackup408 wrote: ↑22 Mar 2021, 16:10
It feels highly suspicious that there is no VADA testing for this bout?
Worth discussing or is it absolutely fine if both fighters have agreed to take dubious substances for our entertainment.
Dubious?
Daniel Dubious? .....
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 08:07
by joshj909
I wouldn't be surprised if either guy came in looking fat, skinny, shredded or with significantly increased muscle mass. Given the circumstances such as lovk downs, previous failed tests and Povetkin's covid, anything can happen. It might be one of those ones where you will quite easily be able to tell at the weigh ins who will win.
kbackup408 wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 15:33
I mentioned this a few years ago and don't think its mentioned or talked about enough, TUE's.
Therapeutic Use Exemptions - you would be surprised how many boxers are allowed certain substances.
Route A to get a TUE, would be to crash the body’s natural testosterone production through taking cycles of anabolic steroids or SARMS. The sporting advantage to getting say a twice weekly testosterone injection legally, even with levels in the normal to high normal testosterone range, is quite significant over an athlete/boxer who is natural, because the natural athlete will have lots of dips due to their diurnal rhythm. It’s effectively legalised cheating.
You are completely clued on pal but it will never be mentioned in the mainstream, you will feel sweat trickling down promoters/broadcasters face if you pushed them on TUE's.
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 13:57
by polecateddy
In the news this week, former British Cycling and Team Sky cycling team doctor, Richard Freeman found guilty of 21 counts of possession testosterone gel, presumably intended for use on supposedly clean cyclists such as Bradley Wiggins back in 2011. He was struck off. This in the new, honest and fresh, post-Lance Armstrong era. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cyc ... 19613.html
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 14:09
by TheLeprechaun
polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 13:57
In the news this week, former British Cycling and Team Sky cycling team doctor, Richard Freeman found guilty of 21 counts of possession testosterone gel, presumably intended for use on supposedly clean cyclists such as Bradley Wiggins back in 2011. He was struck off. This in the new, honest and fresh, post-Lance Armstrong era. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cyc ... 19613.html
It's rampant in all sports. If you're not doing it you are at a huge disadvantage.
polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 13:57
In the news this week, former British Cycling and Team Sky cycling team doctor, Richard Freeman found guilty of 21 counts of possession testosterone gel, presumably intended for use on supposedly clean cyclists such as Bradley Wiggins back in 2011. He was struck off. This in the new, honest and fresh, post-Lance Armstrong era. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cyc ... 19613.html
It's rampant in all sports. If you're not doing it you are at a huge disadvantage.
and if you do it and get caught you are at an even bigger disadvantage ie Jarrel Miller blew off a mega payday vs AJ and then more recently a comeback fight , his career is in tatters and he is likley to end up in court facing breach of contract etc / return of payments made up front by promoters ..
polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 13:57
In the news this week, former British Cycling and Team Sky cycling team doctor, Richard Freeman found guilty of 21 counts of possession testosterone gel, presumably intended for use on supposedly clean cyclists such as Bradley Wiggins back in 2011. He was struck off. This in the new, honest and fresh, post-Lance Armstrong era. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cyc ... 19613.html
It's rampant in all sports. If you're not doing it you are at a huge disadvantage.
and if you do it and get caught you are at an even bigger disadvantage ie Jarrel Miller blew off a mega payday vs AJ and then more recently a comeback fight , his career is in tatters and he is likley to end up in court facing breach of contract etc / return of payments made up front by promoters ..
The more I learn about PED’s, the more it’s very obvious they provide an absolutely huge performance boost. Regardless of what may or may not be going on with drugs in British boxing, I’d wager a fair amount there aren’t many ambitious professional boxers in America not running a sophisticated doping regime. There’s a huge sports pharmacological knowledge base in the States. TRT clinics exist in the UK, but they are two a penny in America. I don’t see how you compete with them as a UK boxer without taking substances too.
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 15:07
by Controversial
There’s a good doc on Netflix about the Russian Olympic team and doping worth a watch
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 15:37
by polecateddy
Controversial wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 15:07
There’s a good doc on Netflix about the Russian Olympic team and doping worth a watch
It's excellent - Icarus.
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 19:54
by gregregegg
Anyone know if you can find all the Vada or bbboc results when a fight is tested? Like not just “they are clean”, I’d love to know what they were tested for and when. Cause right now I don’t really know if cheating is very easy or very hard or somewhere in the middle.
I remember when dillashaw got busted for epo it came out that they rarely test for it because the test is expensive or somthing like that, love to know the scope and frequency of different testing agency’s eg vada vs bbboc testing in boxing.
Controversial wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 15:07
There’s a good doc on Netflix about the Russian Olympic team and doping worth a watch
It's excellent - Icarus.
anti russian propoganda, yanks cheating as much as anyone, let's see the human form at its peak !!
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 03:50
by polecateddy
gregregegg wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 19:54
Anyone know if you can find all the Vada or bbboc results when a fight is tested? Like not just “they are clean”, I’d love to know what they were tested for and when. Cause right now I don’t really know if cheating is very easy or very hard or somewhere in the middle.
I remember when dillashaw got busted for epo it came out that they rarely test for it because the test is expensive or somthing like that, love to know the scope and frequency of different testing agency’s eg vada vs bbboc testing in boxing.
That’s a good point. A lot of sporting agencies allow a 6:1 ratio of testosterone to estrogen, which still allows a huge scope for cheating. When USADA first started testing the UFC fighters they demanded a 4:1 ratio, and pretty much overnight some very high profile fighters like Vitor Belfort and Alistair Overeem physically ‘melted.’ So basically if boxers are permitted a 6:1 ratio of test to estrogen, they could well still be blasting bio-identical testosterone. And of course if they know when they are going to be tested, they can indulge in compounds that clear the system within a week. The human growth hormone-like MK-677 has a half-life of 24 hours for instance. And that’s actually a legal substance, just not cleared for human consumption. Banned for sport of course.
gregregegg wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 19:54
Anyone know if you can find all the Vada or bbboc results when a fight is tested? Like not just “they are clean”, I’d love to know what they were tested for and when. Cause right now I don’t really know if cheating is very easy or very hard or somewhere in the middle.
I remember when dillashaw got busted for epo it came out that they rarely test for it because the test is expensive or somthing like that, love to know the scope and frequency of different testing agency’s eg vada vs bbboc testing in boxing.
That’s a good point. A lot of sporting agencies allow a 6:1 ratio of testosterone to estrogen, which still allows a huge scope for cheating. When USADA first started testing the UFC fighters they demanded a 4:1 ratio, and pretty much overnight some very high profile fighters like Vitor Belfort and Alistair Overeem physically ‘melted.’ So basically if boxers are permitted a 6:1 ratio of test to estrogen, they could well still be blasting bio-identical testosterone. And of course if they know when they are going to be tested, they can indulge in compounds that clear the system within a week. The human growth hormone-like MK-677 has a half-life of 24 hours for instance. And that’s actually a legal substance, just not cleared for human consumption. Banned for sport of course.
That is a really good bit of analysis - I mentioned this about 18 months ago but I think we the public should be able to know if fighters are granted TUEs - I know its personal but if the paying pubic is paying for PPV or even general admission ticket we should know what the athletes we are watching are taking.
We always have to remember this is a combat sport - the consequences of taking substances is dangerous I don't have the same stance for Golf, Baseball, Cricket etc
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 12:53
by handsofstone
Pretty sure uk just got caught up in a state sponsored doping scandal, in cycling something to do with that Richard Freeman , im not clued up on facts tbf but i seen someone say its the same as state sponsored doping
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 12:54
by margaret thatcher
those poor cyclists, all suffering with terrible asthma
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 16:44
by knockout
Absolutely TUE should not be allowed in sport .
If you aren’t good enough due to physical limitations , then you aren’t good enough full stop.
That’s the reason why we are all posting on a forum rather than boxing for world titles... not everyone is gifted with the necessary physical qualities to get to the top. That’s life ..
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 16:49
by Jimmy2020
It's so easy to manipulate your testosterone levels. Anybody who has ever dieted down below circa 10% body fat naturally will have not far off castrate level testosterone. I've done it and was lethargic, weak as piss, angry, etc but looked great in the mirror. If I'd gone to the doctor then he'd have banged me on testosterone gel guaranteed.
As soon as I start getting some bodyfat back on, the testosterone shoots up again, I'm big strong, aggressive, libido is strong, etc.
There's a reason the post steroid era great fighters weren't 'ripped'.
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 16:53
by brilo33
Controversial wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 15:07
There’s a good doc on Netflix about the Russian Olympic team and doping worth a watch
mad i know shows you how far it all goes back, , i also go back to i dont know that the athelte always knows what he is taking if he is a big name say following a olmpics success could easy have some health nutrition guy doing his stuff . he dont know
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 17:01
by brilo33
i belive there should be a blankett ban on performance enhancing drugs, but i still think drugs like coke and puffing green arent, as i cant see anything worse than having a fight sniffed of me nut sober id need 3 pints of stella to take the edge of the gear i would say the same with puff, but when i was a young teen i puffed untold 10 joints a day from 14 and i had fights on that as i became ammune to it , whats the rules of drinking in the ring,as ive read journey men seems a few have had a beer in a fight, speed exctay wouldnt fancy having it ,when on it
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 27 Mar 2021, 03:55
by kbackup408
brilo33 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 17:01
i belive there should be a blankett ban on performance enhancing drugs, but i still think drugs like coke and puffing green arent, as i cant see anything worse than having a fight sniffed of me nut sober id need 3 pints of stella to take the edge of the gear i would say the same with puff, but when i was a young teen i puffed untold 10 joints a day from 14 and i had fights on that as i became ammune to it , whats the rules of drinking in the ring,as ive read journey men seems a few have had a beer in a fight, speed exctay wouldnt fancy having it ,when on it
We need more people like you haha loved the link back to reality - I think the concern isn't white or green more things like testosterone promoters are helping fighters sign off on TUEs
Re: Drug testing for Whyte vs Povetkin 2
Posted: 27 Mar 2021, 03:58
by kbackup408
knockout wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 16:44
Absolutely TUE should not be allowed in sport .
If you aren’t good enough due to physical limitations , then you aren’t good enough full stop.
That’s the reason why we are all posting on a forum rather than boxing for world titles... not everyone is gifted with the necessary physical qualities to get to the top. That’s life ..
Absolutely, glad everyone is clued on about TUEs it really is the dark dark arts in boxing because we will never know this all secretive!
