BoxRec

I was a very young boy at the time, but i seem to remember that it was not shown live on BBC tv due to advertising on his trunks, is that correct?

Also I seem to remember some racist comments at the time, can anyone confirm this and what was said.

Cheers

s9s wrote:I was a very young boy at the time, but i seem to remember that it was not shown live on BBC tv due to advertising on his trunks, is that correct?

Also I seem to remember some racist comments at the time, can anyone confirm this and what was said.

Cheers

The fight that wasn't shown on TV was Minter v Sibson.

His comments were along the lines of "No black man is going to take my title".

that's is the more politically correct version of what he said as i recall.

I have to say that looking at Robinson's record, his standing as an all time great middleweight is based on his fame and to an extent his prowess at welterweight.

Robinson was never the force at middleweight that he was at welterweight. Perhaps he lost a little focus, because he was a big star by the time he became middleweight champ.

The remarkable thing about Robinson is that he NEVER lost to a welterweight in his career. When he fought LaMotta, he was under the welterweight limit, and LaMotta was a middleweight.

He was a phenomenon at welterweight, sadly as far as i know there's not much footage of him at welterweight.

By the time he got to middleweight he'd been in over 140 fights or so, and had been in some wars, and was an old 30 year old. He certainly was doing

I would have to say that his win over Robinson (turpin) is probably the greatest upset by a British fighter, because he certainly wasn't expected to win. Honeyghan against Curry is another great one, Benn v McClellan as i said, McClellan rose too quick through the weights, and it's not like he was a great coming into the fight, very good yes, but great, no.

I'm wracking my brains trying to think of some other unexpected wins for British fighters, but there aren't that many.

tonyevs wrote:I don’t get the point that your trying to prove.
Perhaps you being such a vastly experienced veteran has clouded your eyes to other boxers,
the three boxers Robinson had met before Turpin were very experienced, take a look at their records; all but one of them had contested major titles.
True none of them were outstanding at world level, but neither was Turpin prior to this, or after for that matter.

What great fighters had Robinson beaten at middleweight up to the time of the Turpin contest, La Motta was very much an old fighter about then and still they had very hard fights.

Maybe you don’t know but Robinson was in his prime at 147lb, he never lost there you know….

Research is better than repeating what you have heard (wrongly) from other people.

The hype with Sugar Ray Robinson had him down as unbeatable, they over looked he was now fighting at a heavier weight, and he was no longer a young man.
Turpin was not expected to win, that’s what made it so amazing.

No offence but I think that proves you wrong

Tony we are going to have to agree to disagree on this, I do know Robinson was at his best at welterweight theres no need to be patronising, and I can make my own mind up from my own knowledge and research thank you very much.

anyone who knows me will tell you im pretty fortheright in making my own judgements and sticking to them i dont just regurjitate the "party" line.

If you cant admit that Robsinson was still a major force in the middleweight division prior to his 3 year lay off then it is you my friend who is being blind, what a i do find amusing is that you tell me to go check his record and question my research when you plainly have not done so yourself, robisnson was a completey different proposition post his 3 year lay off, his record proves that.

Yes, we’ll agree to disagree. I apologize for coming as if I was patronizing, meant it to come across sarcastically.

Ray Robinson was certainly in the shake up of the middleweight division for a long time, too long I think, like so many great boxers they get tempted by various factors to fight too long and almost always pay for it with their health in later years.
Robinson was a great puncher and always dangerous as long as he could land.

And after the lay off he fought a better crop of middleweights even you have to admit that.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I'm wracking my brains trying to think of some other unexpected wins for British fighters, but there aren't that many.

The bloke who went to Mexico to beat Jose Napoles? John H Stracey.

And who could forget Julius beating Stefan Nielsen:-)

Wasn't it that old boxer's bugbear, the IRS which brought him back to the ring, that an his incredibly wastrel lifestyle.

It would have been interesting to see how good Ray had been had he not had that layoff after the maxim fight. His record at middleweight shows he was still very dangerous, but I think by the age of 30, he was some way past his peak, mainly because of the enormous number of fights he was in.

What is undeniable is that his record up until the point he loses to turpin is out of this world.

stujones wrote:
Sure he wasn't in Jimmy Wildes league, or for that matter Jack Kid Berg

jamesmcdonnell wrote:that's is the more politically correct version of what he said as i recall.

I think those where his actual words, at least that's how the Sun reported it.
Then there was a rumour he was heading up a NF march a few days later, but that was a load of BS I think.
Maurice Hope, who he sparred, used to say Minter was an outright racist.

For what it's worth, the Honeyghan shocker goes down in my book as at least joint No # 1 biggest upset scored by a Brit boxer.

Impossible to beat the Turpin one, but I think most people knew Robinson wasn't taking it all too seriously - more like a European vacation.
He had traveling with him: a court jester, dwarf, hairdresser and God knows what else.

Like Sugar Ray, Curry was pretty much seen as P4P No #1 in the world ( alongside Hagler ).
In fact Hagler was just about the only guy given a shot at beating the seemingly invincible Curry. The manner of Lloyd's win made it even more surprising: hurting Curry and knocking him all over the ring.

And Honey pulled this off in the champion's back yard to boot.

Just unbelievable at the time.

tonyevs wrote:Yes, we’ll agree to disagree. I apologize for coming as if I was patronizing, meant it to come across sarcastically.

Ray Robinson was certainly in the shake up of the middleweight division for a long time, too long I think, like so many great boxers they get tempted by various factors to fight too long and almost always pay for it with their health in later years.
Robinson was a great puncher and always dangerous as long as he could land.

And after the lay off he fought a better crop of middleweights even you have to admit that.

tony respect mate, nevr can tell sometimes with the written word no worries!!! have a nice weekend pal, and to all the other members here!!!

muchos lovos pissed up
j

tonyevs wrote:Yes, we’ll agree to disagree. I apologize for coming as if I was patronizing, meant it to come across sarcastically.

Ray Robinson was certainly in the shake up of the middleweight division for a long time, too long I think, like so many great boxers they get tempted by various factors to fight too long and almost always pay for it with their health in later years.
Robinson was a great puncher and always dangerous as long as he could land.

And after the lay off he fought a better crop of middleweights even you have to admit that.

tony respect mate, nevr can tell sometimes with the written word no worries!!! have a nice weekend pal, and to all the other members here!!!

muchos lovos pissed up
j

Much is often made of Robinson being 'unfit' against Turpin in their first bout but the truth is that Randy had the style and strength to beat Robinson who had trouble with the brawlers and boxers who could outmuscle him (Lamotta, Basilo, Fulmer, Maxim... were all very strong physical fighters)... also Turpin was ahead quite handily in their rematch even though he wasn't as well prepared for it as he had been for the first match. It was probably this lack of condition that led Randy to defeat....

Ray Robinson was fighting out of his natural weight category at middle.

What makes Robinson a true great was he could fight outside of his natural weight category so successfully, something only the true greats can do.

Turpin was so big for the weight and this along with better than average basic skills was enough to cause trouble for the smaller man who’s punch did not make such an impression on this younger and bigger opponent.

I also think Danny Williams recent victory over Tyson was a major upset also, hindsight tells us Tyson was shot but how surprised were we when we first heard the result??

Talking of Don Curry apparently his amateur record was 400-6. That is an increadible record.

Loftgroov wrote:

stujones wrote:
Sure he wasn't in Jimmy Wildes league, or for that matter Jack Kid Berg

You've lost me there, Lofty. Thats way over my head.

I remember Minter as far back as the Munich Olympics and have seen several of his fights. I was quite impressed with his boxing skills and toughness, and while I don't have the articles I definitely remember Minter quoted after the Hagler fight as saying that the Wembley crowd got him so inspired that as hard to believe as it now sounds, he got out of his fight plan and decided to take Hagler out. A later article acknowledged the fact that for awhile Marvin was actually getting outboxed, but then he suckered Minter into a shootout that he couldn't win.

Another story I've heard about Minter that I can't confirm as being true is that in every one of his previous losses McMillan,Magdziarz,Ortiz, Harris and Tonna, that he gave a good account of himself but succombed to cuts each time. I'd be interested to hear if this is true or not.

And finally, in my opinion, Minter clearly beat Mustafa Hamsho in his second to last fight. The first 3 rounds Minter didn't look like he was going to last the distance, and in the 3rd round Hamsho wobbled him with a punch, but at the start of the 4th round, Hamsho walked right into a left hook (I think) from Minter and was clearly hurt. After that Minter controlled the rest of the fight, but looked worse at the end.

Seamus, yes think you're right, all his early losses we down to cuts. He couldn't resist wading in for a punch up in the early days ( nickname Boom Boom ) but the cuts forced him to change his style to more of a boxer.
He had a great chin - think it was only Sibson who ever floored him, in his final fight.
By the time Hagler arrived, I think Minter considered himself unbeatable, having just outclassed Vito in the rematch. So with the home crowd roaring, he went straight to war - can't recall him doing much boxing that night at all. He landed some good shots early and went for an early finish - obviously had no idea who he was in there with!

I remember the Hampsho fight was very close, a lot of people thought a draw would've been the right result.