BoxRec

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 12:31 They're not the same age, but I think cruiser evander would have beaten Mike.

I get it…but you originally responded to a post that said 20 yr old Tyson would beat any other HW when they were 20….that is the hypothetical issue I was getting at

Because Tyson didn't want to get his ass kicked twice.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 00:20

snake33 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 23:15

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 19:46
Tyson never beats holy field.

I don't know. If Rooney was still around Tyson would have been fit and focused and not desperate.
Holyfield could get buzzed by a good punch, it just took skill to get to the target.

He wasn't good enough or tough enough.

Now you've gone too far. In his 20s there was no one tougher than Iron Mike Tyson. Including Holyfield.
He was a relentless beast with excellent movement. Maybe you never saw any of his early fights ?

A peak Mike Tyson v a peak Evander Holyfied (with or without his Peds) is not lasting very long.

Just for a little perspective let's cast our minds back to Atlantic City April 1991 where a 42 year old overweight and out of shape George Foreman almost slept Holyfied.

The Tyson before and after Rooney/the media circus of a trial/ prison/ Don King was not the same boxer.

Who would be?

Thomastearns wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 14:49 A peak Mike Tyson v a peak Evander Holyfied (with or without his Peds) is not lasting very long.

Just for a little perspective let's cast our minds back to Atlantic City April 1991 where a 42 year old overweight and out of shape George Foreman almost slept Holyfied.

The Tyson before and after Rooney/the media circus of a trial/ prison/ Don King was not the same boxer.

Who would be?

I wanted to see Tyson vs. Foreman, but they did not want to fight each other.

snake33 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 14:42

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 00:20

snake33 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 23:15

I don't know. If Rooney was still around Tyson would have been fit and focused and not desperate.
Holyfield could get buzzed by a good punch, it just took skill to get to the target.

He wasn't good enough or tough enough.

Now you've gone too far. In his 20s there was no one tougher than Iron Mike Tyson. Including Holyfield.
He was a relentless beast with excellent movement. Maybe you never saw any of his early fights ?

foreman never came close to sleeping holyfield

snake33 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 14:42

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 00:20

snake33 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 23:15

I don't know. If Rooney was still around Tyson would have been fit and focused and not desperate.
Holyfield could get buzzed by a good punch, it just took skill to get to the target.

He wasn't good enough or tough enough.

Now you've gone too far. In his 20s there was no one tougher than Iron Mike Tyson. Including Holyfield.
He was a relentless beast with excellent movement. Maybe you never saw any of his early fights ?

Let me reiterate, Tyson never beats Holyfield.

Not in 1986, Not in 1988, Not in 1991, Not in 2002, Not if they fought next week.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 17:52

snake33 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 14:42

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 00:20
He wasn't good enough or tough enough.

Now you've gone too far. In his 20s there was no one tougher than Iron Mike Tyson. Including Holyfield.
He was a relentless beast with excellent movement. Maybe you never saw any of his early fights ?

Let me reiterate, Tyson never beats Holyfield.

Not in 1986, Not in 1988, Not in 1991, Not in 2002, Not if they fought next week.

There is a solid reason why Mike's handler/s didn't let a still young Mike to rematch Buster Douglas which would've been a big money rematch and then fight Holy in 1990-1991 time span. It's all in Mike's resume.

The people that are saying a 20 y/o focused Tyson with Cus / Rooney, would've been "a human deadly weapon" should rewatch (a young) Mike's fights vs Tucker and Douglas. Tucker and Douglas were good champions, especially Tucker, but not at the same level with Lennox, Holy, Bowe, or even Ike.

I guess that Tyson was happy with the money and the life he had and he pretty much didn't care too much who he is gonna fight as long as he is getting paid well.

Biggest bet of my lifetime was me saying Holy would beat Tyson when they fought ($50). I would have lost big on the Douglas fight....didn't see that coming. Personally I think both Tyson and Holy were roided to the gills. Very little testing back then. Lucky Douglas got the KO because the cards were criminal, and Douglas was dominate most of the fight.

Bandog wrote: ↑21 Jul 2021, 09:29 Biggest bet of my lifetime was me saying Holy would beat Tyson when they fought ($50). I would have lost big on the Douglas fight....didn't see that coming. Personally I think both Tyson and Holy were roided to the gills. Very little testing back then. Lucky Douglas got the KO because the cards were criminal, and Douglas was dominate most of the fight.

You hit the nail on head! It's interesting that people don't say nothing about the peds aspect from that time? Just crickets! lol At that time I guess those fighters were strong and powerful as cyborgs.

ldlamb wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 14:05

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 12:31 They're not the same age, but I think cruiser evander would have beaten Mike.

I get it…but you originally responded to a post that said 20 yr old Tyson would beat any other HW when they were 20….that is the hypothetical issue I was getting at

Liston was feared and considered unbeatable in the early 60s too. Same with Foreman in early 70s. I'd think a 20 yr old Cassius Clay would beat a 20 yr old Tyson. Henry Tillman beat Tyson in the olympic trials, so he had flaws that Clay would have exploited.
Fast forward a year or 2, roid him up, and he's a new monster. Roids were used all the time in 70s and 80s, especially in football.

snake33 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 14:42

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 00:20

snake33 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 23:15

I don't know. If Rooney was still around Tyson would have been fit and focused and not desperate.
Holyfield could get buzzed by a good punch, it just took skill to get to the target.

He wasn't good enough or tough enough.

Now you've gone too far. In his 20s there was no one tougher than Iron Mike Tyson. Including Holyfield.
He was a relentless beast with excellent movement. Maybe you never saw any of his early fights ?

That's an asinine comment.

Tyson rarely if ever won a fight he was down in. Never responded well to adversity. Tyson was basically a front runner
Holyfield was the exact opposite.

how many fights did holyfield get dropped but still win? was it just cooper?

though obviously he was much mentally tougher than mike

Tyson was hyped so heavily. People don't talk so much about Lennox.

Funniest KO of Iron Mike? Dropping Fat Jesus in the movie the hangover.
Prolly roided up doe.

apollo creed wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 12:16 Tyson was hyped so heavily. People don't talk so much about Lennox.

if lennox went around biting ears, raping, etc he'd probably have a bigger profile

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 Jul 2021, 21:41

apollo creed wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 12:16 Tyson was hyped so heavily. People don't talk so much about Lennox.

if lennox went around biting ears, raping, etc he'd probably have a bigger profile

Massive respect for Lennox. One of our best boxing heavys in the last 40 yrs. Probably beat all of our current heavys with ease.

Lennox was a true champion and he has great boxing achievements. Olympic gold medalist by defeating Bowe. Defeating guys like Tucker, Bruno, McCall in rematch, Morrison, Mercer, Golota, Briggs, Holy, Tua, Rahman II and Vitali.

apollo creed wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 07:24 I don't know if Mike had or not a rematch clause when he fought Douglas but imo Mike should've tried to avenge that loss asap. I know that Douglas fought Holy next but no matter what that loss of Mike should've been avenged like Lennox did with McCall, Holy and Rahman. That's how a true champion does!

Since 1990-02-11 till 1991-06-28 Mike had enough time to rematch Douglas and then go after Holyfield but Mike fought Tillman, Stewart and Ruddock x 2 times. Anyway no matter what year was, imo Mike should've tried to rematch Douglas.

It's a fair question.

I've often wondered why Tyson appeared not to press for an immediate rematch.

Tyson was the biggest name in the sport at that time & if he really wanted it, it probably would have happened.

I remember seeing a clip of Tyson walking along the street in New York after the defeat to Douglas, being interviewed & he said to the interviewer that he will be champion again in 6 months, so he obviously had plans for an immediate rematch, but as we all know, it never happened,

He couldn't have had an immediate rematch. King had ducked evander for quite a while. I think that fight was to be a month later.

Syntax Error wrote: ↑30 Jul 2021, 12:45

apollo creed wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 07:24 I don't know if Mike had or not a rematch clause when he fought Douglas but imo Mike should've tried to avenge that loss asap. I know that Douglas fought Holy next but no matter what that loss of Mike should've been avenged like Lennox did with McCall, Holy and Rahman. That's how a true champion does!

Since 1990-02-11 till 1991-06-28 Mike had enough time to rematch Douglas and then go after Holyfield but Mike fought Tillman, Stewart and Ruddock x 2 times. Anyway no matter what year was, imo Mike should've tried to rematch Douglas.

It's a fair question.

I've often wondered why Tyson appeared not to press for an immediate rematch.

Tyson was the biggest name in the sport at that time & if he really wanted it, it probably would have happened.

I remember seeing a clip of Tyson walking along the street in New York after the defeat to Douglas, being interviewed & he said to the interviewer that he will be champion again in 6 months, so he obviously had plans for an immediate rematch, but as we all know, it never happened,

Most probably it was just business. They saw that Buster has Tyson's number and they tried to put Tyson back on track against other fighters. I think in that time frame Tyson(boxing golden goose) had the power to make the rematch and they'd have made bigger money but I think Tyson's handlers didn't want to risk Tyson so much and ruin his career if he'd have been beaten again in a rematch by Douglas.

apollo creed wrote: ↑30 Jul 2021, 14:03

Syntax Error wrote: ↑30 Jul 2021, 12:45

apollo creed wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 07:24 I don't know if Mike had or not a rematch clause when he fought Douglas but imo Mike should've tried to avenge that loss asap. I know that Douglas fought Holy next but no matter what that loss of Mike should've been avenged like Lennox did with McCall, Holy and Rahman. That's how a true champion does!

Since 1990-02-11 till 1991-06-28 Mike had enough time to rematch Douglas and then go after Holyfield but Mike fought Tillman, Stewart and Ruddock x 2 times. Anyway no matter what year was, imo Mike should've tried to rematch Douglas.

It's a fair question.

I've often wondered why Tyson appeared not to press for an immediate rematch.

Tyson was the biggest name in the sport at that time & if he really wanted it, it probably would have happened.

I remember seeing a clip of Tyson walking along the street in New York after the defeat to Douglas, being interviewed & he said to the interviewer that he will be champion again in 6 months, so he obviously had plans for an immediate rematch, but as we all know, it never happened,

Most probably it was just business. They saw that Buster has Tyson's number and they tried to put Tyson back on track against other fighters. I think in that time frame Tyson(boxing golden goose) had the power to make the rematch and they'd have made bigger money but I think Tyson's handlers didn't want to risk Tyson so much and ruin his career if he'd have been beaten again in a rematch by Douglas.

Amazingly stupid

It seems likely that Buster didn't particularly want it either. Later that same year he showed up looking fat and sluggish against Evander, got very easily knocked out, reportedly ballooned up to almost 400 pounds, and didn't fight again for six years (and never fought at top level again). I'm not sure at what point folks think he was champing at the bit to kick Tyson's ass again. Immediately after their first fight? At that time, perhaps he didn't want to -- it seems like he got real pissed at how they tried to jerk him around with protests about him only winning the title by way of a 'long count'.

Rewatching that fight and I saw that it was a very tough fight for Tyson. Buster had a good jab and he was fighting Tyson back. I think after that fight Tyson's mentality of being invincible was broken. He wasn't the same fighter.