BoxRec

I agree there is no fighter in history who has improved

546853 wrote: ↑07 Sep 2021, 11:16

IRONFIST wrote: ↑07 Sep 2021, 10:18

546853 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 13:36

Wow I have to admit when I created this poll I had no idea that around 90% of others were also smart enough to see Canelo for what he really is...

It doesn't take a genius to work that out, a man who got rocked by Cotto's brother and going the distance with Matthew Hatton a few years ago, suddenly punching like a mule and stopping a light heavy and breaking bones of bigger fighters etc.

I agree 100% and all those stamina issues suddenly dissolved too like they never even had an affect...he's the Erythropoietin poster-boy if there ever was one, I'll say that much.

It's impossible for a boxer (or any sportsman) to improve physically beyond the age of 26/27 unless human beings are different today than they were 30/40 years ago.

Evolution works on a different timescale.

Until fairly recently world record holders tended to be in their early 20s. In a demanding sport like boxing (or soccer) you were considered past it by 30.

Experience can help extend a career but what the slow moving barely 5'8" Canelo has done by going up in weight the way he has done is more than highly suspect.

However this is just speculation based dramatic weight changes, late physical development, one failed test, and witnessed needle marks.

Until he gets properly tested we can't say for certain he's still on Clenbuterol or Erythropoietin (EPO) any more than we can say that Evander Holyfield was clean.

Physicality is only part of the equation.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:58

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Wasn't there another guy, Mexican dude 3 names, who failed from that camp?

What's his name? If you can't find it, then we have to assume it didn't happen.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Did Ryan Garcia not immediately use the mental health excuse to cancel a fight before being tested then just weeks later say he's fine?

Mental health isn't synonymous with PED usage or failing a VADA test.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Didn't Ruiz jr. lose an insane amount of weight within weeks of joining that camp?

Morbidly obese people can lose an enormous amount of weight without PED's.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Canelo caught red handed twice

Canelo was caught once via two samples.

Under the current drug policy rules regarding clenbuterol, Canelo would have never tested positive for a banned substance nor served a suspension

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Valdez caught now...

Agreed.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21... maybe the folks who've been calling them out from the jump were right..

The only member of Eddy Reynoso’s stable that's failed a drug test within the last 3½ years is Oscar Valdez.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21I'd like to see all the records of actual tests taken by Canelo, because being on that WBC list does not mean they were tested it means they can be tested.

Actual proof would be nice. Not just assumption. It only makes sense to be skeptical now, or you are not paying attention.

This information isn't available for any fighter, let alone Canelo.

Julio Cesar Martinez
Luis Nery
Canelo Alvarez
Oscar Valdez

All worked with Reynoso, all failed tests. I get the argument on both sides but I am leaning towards funny business going on as opposed to some miraculous coincidence and these rats are somehow innocent. To me, even exploiting these stupid rules that allow rampant drug use up to a certain point and call it out of competition, that is wrong. That's cheating, gaining unfair advantage. But I'm probably in the minority on that issue, others seem to want to allow more leniency, less culpability, more entertainment.

SFW wrote: ↑07 Sep 2021, 13:43

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:58

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Wasn't there another guy, Mexican dude 3 names, who failed from that camp?

What's his name? If you can't find it, then we have to assume it didn't happen.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Did Ryan Garcia not immediately use the mental health excuse to cancel a fight before being tested then just weeks later say he's fine?

Mental health isn't synonymous with PED usage or failing a VADA test.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Didn't Ruiz jr. lose an insane amount of weight within weeks of joining that camp?

Morbidly obese people can lose an enormous amount of weight without PED's.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Canelo caught red handed twice

Canelo was caught once via two samples.

Under the current drug policy rules regarding clenbuterol, Canelo would have never tested positive for a banned substance nor served a suspension

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21Valdez caught now...

Agreed.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21... maybe the folks who've been calling them out from the jump were right..

The only member of Eddy Reynoso’s stable that's failed a drug test within the last 3½ years is Oscar Valdez.

SFW wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:21I'd like to see all the records of actual tests taken by Canelo, because being on that WBC list does not mean they were tested it means they can be tested.

Actual proof would be nice. Not just assumption. It only makes sense to be skeptical now, or you are not paying attention.

This information isn't available for any fighter, let alone Canelo.

Julio Cesar Martinez
Luis Nery
Canelo Alvarez
Oscar Valdez

All worked with Reynoso, all failed tests. I get the argument on both sides but I am leaning towards funny business going on as opposed to some miraculous coincidence and these rats are somehow innocent. To me, even exploiting these stupid rules that allow rampant drug use up to a certain point and call it out of competition, that is wrong. That's cheating, gaining unfair advantage. But I'm probably in the minority on that issue, others seem to want to allow more leniency, less culpability, more entertainment.

Explain the Martinez and Nery situations in relation to Eddy Reynoso.

No sweeping statements.

Timelines.

I’ll even help you out. Luis Nery split from Eddy Reynoso after a single fight.

I’m not being argumentative, instead I am merely trying to persuade you to formulate an opinion based on facts.

A very consistent breakfast to start the day in full power mode would be:

Carne asada and burritos, followed by a good cup of herbal tea and then a good sniff of nasal spray!

Do this every morning and you'd be one strong super champ.

546853 wrote: ↑04 Sep 2021, 20:08 After this latest positive test debacle in the camp many are and have been speculating that Canelo himself is also on some heavy PEDs.

This would help explain A LOT of the enigmas we've been unable to rationalize about his recent successes.

As a person whose trained at many gyms and has an extensive familiarity with PEDs I can say 100% that if one person in a tight circle like this is guilty of cheating the odds are about 99% that all or most of the others are as well.

I'm not making an official accusation but I am curious what others perspective is.

- Grrlyboys needing Viagra knockoffs to post in a men's boxing forum would normally be outlawed save for the Western Democracy Rights of Free Speech. Still, you have no right to pollute our waterways and wildlife with your Viagra, Cocaine, and Big Pharma drugs as you have stupidly done.

As to your stupid header where you attempt by proximity to establish your gravitas as a drug cheat, first off Canelo has never failed a drug test. Get your minder to help with that if needed. 2nd, Valdez after dozens of VADA tests finally tested 22 nanograms over a legal supplement in the out of competition testing as the media has it, so now the competing WADA and VADA drug testing agencies and the WBC have a girrlyboy jurisdictional fight over procedure as the ruling commish say the fight goes on.

It was an easy prediction back when that the anthropoids who run boxing was gonna go full shttshow over drug testing when Crack Family Floyd and Cracked out Oscar made false allegations about Manny where they ultimately paid out handsomely in Manny's civil damages settlement. As to their claim to bring Olympic style drug testing to boxing, there has NEVER been such a thing. Then we have BALCO VIC and Nevada Commish Doc Goodman who has said she would like to see boxing banned organize the TUE WADA wannabee, ie VADA drug testing agency specifically for boxing. No other pro sport would want to be associated with such riffraff where BALCO Vic sells his approved BALCO vitamins and Hyperbolic workout regimens that give the rich fighters vast advantages over the vast poor majority of fighters. Instead of cleaning up boxing, they and you grrlyboys have made a public mockery of boxing where top fighters are tested more stringently than pro ball sports, but hey ho, that's what idiots and drug cheats do, they shtt their own nests and each other.

You do, so everyone does...just BRILLIANT

Thomastearns wrote: ↑07 Sep 2021, 12:38It’s impossible for a boxer (or any sportsman) to improve physically beyond the age of 26/27 unless human beings are different today than they were 30/40 years ago.

Depends on the starting point and the training goals.

It’s not simply a case of someone hitting a certain age (i.e. their mid-twenties) and they’re powerless to prevent physical decline.

Often, fighters get smarter and become more disciplined, as well as more efficient, with their training and diet regimen as they approach their thirties.

They stop taking their remaining youth for granted and become more serious with their profession, especially when they realise they’re approaching the final stages of their career and have a young family and a mortgage to pay for.

I get what you’re saying though, but it’s just not that cut and dry.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Sep 2021, 13:54

SFW wrote: ↑07 Sep 2021, 13:43

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 08:58
What's his name? If you can't find it, then we have to assume it didn't happen.

Mental health isn't synonymous with PED usage or failing a VADA test.

Morbidly obese people can lose an enormous amount of weight without PED's.

Canelo was caught once via two samples.

Under the current drug policy rules regarding clenbuterol, Canelo would have never tested positive for a banned substance nor served a suspension

Agreed.

The only member of Eddy Reynoso’s stable that's failed a drug test within the last 3½ years is Oscar Valdez.

This information isn't available for any fighter, let alone Canelo.

Julio Cesar Martinez
Luis Nery
Canelo Alvarez
Oscar Valdez

All worked with Reynoso, all failed tests. I get the argument on both sides but I am leaning towards funny business going on as opposed to some miraculous coincidence and these rats are somehow innocent. To me, even exploiting these stupid rules that allow rampant drug use up to a certain point and call it out of competition, that is wrong. That's cheating, gaining unfair advantage. But I'm probably in the minority on that issue, others seem to want to allow more leniency, less culpability, more entertainment.

Explain the Martinez and Nery situations in relation to Eddy Reynoso.

No sweeping statements.

Timelines.

I’ll even help you out. Luis Nery split from Eddy Reynoso after a single fight.

I’m not being argumentative, instead I am merely trying to persuade you to formulate an opinion based on facts.

I get you, and it's really in the first line. Those 4 guys at some point worked with Reynoso and also popped on drug tests. I'll read more into it, see if I remembered correctly or not. Pretty sure those 4 popped. And only the dumb or lazy ones get caught. That'd be them f'sho. Regardless, time will tell on how clean these guys were all these years. If we never hear about another Reynoso fighter popping on a test, that's more trust earned and more vindication for their original screw up with Canelo.

It would be something of a miracle if he isn’t Lance Armstrong’in it all the way. He’s probably on some quite elaborate doping program. I’d imagine his gym mates wanted on the PED train too and buggered it up.

The following facts cannot be refuted by anyone!

• Oscar Valdez is the only member of Eddy Reynoso’s stable have failed drug tests within the last 3½ years.

• Since May 2018, Canelo has been the most VADA or commission tested elite-level fighter competing today.

Whilst I appreciate the likelihood that the vast majority of elite-level boxers competing today may have intentionally (or unknowingly) consumed PED’s at some point in their career, I really don’t understand the reason for the title of this thread.

If you do the research, you’ll probably discover that every single notable trainer has worked with at least one fighter that’s tested positive for PED’s.

So why the fascination with Eddy Reynoso? I just don’t get it?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑08 Sep 2021, 04:07

The following facts cannot be refuted by anyone!

• Oscar Valdez is the only member of Eddy Reynoso’s stable have failed drug tests within the last 3½ years.

• Since May 2018, Canelo has been the most VADA or commission tested elite-level fighter competing today.

Whilst I appreciate the likelihood that the vast majority of elite-level boxers competing today may have intentionally (or unknowingly) consumed PED’s at some point in their career, I really don’t understand the reason for the title of this thread.

If you do the research, you’ll probably discover that every single notable trainer has worked with at least one fighter that’s tested positive for PED’s.

So why the fascination with Eddy Reynoso? I just don’t get it?

ok, son but quit twisting and shit stirring, with your lame rhetoric to put other poster in bad light.

apollo creed wrote: ↑08 Sep 2021, 04:58

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑08 Sep 2021, 04:07

The following facts cannot be refuted by anyone!

• Oscar Valdez is the only member of Eddy Reynoso’s stable have failed drug tests within the last 3½ years.

• Since May 2018, Canelo has been the most VADA or commission tested elite-level fighter competing today.

Whilst I appreciate the likelihood that the vast majority of elite-level boxers competing today may have intentionally (or unknowingly) consumed PED’s at some point in their career, I really don’t understand the reason for the title of this thread.

If you do the research, you’ll probably discover that every single notable trainer has worked with at least one fighter that’s tested positive for PED’s.

So why the fascination with Eddy Reynoso? I just don’t get it?

ok, son but quit twisting and shit stirring, with your lame rhetoric to put other poster in bad light.

The following facts cannot be refuted by anyone!

• Oscar Valdez is the only member of Eddy Reynoso’s stable that's failed drug tests within the last 3½ years.

• Since May 2018, Canelo has been the most VADA or commission tested elite-level fighter competing today.

End of thread!

Yeah probably, and he's got money so he can buy the things to get around it.

I don't doubt most high level athletes with millions of dollars in the bank are on something.

poor big baby.

guess he was skint as a bint.

how nobodoy backed him up and got him top notch supply, the undetectable stuff.

had to take that outdated, detectable shit.

must've still been a set up though if u think how much money was involved...

or miller is one of the dumbest mofos on the planet.

546853 wrote: ↑04 Sep 2021, 20:08
As a person whose trained at many gyms and has an extensive familiarity with PEDs I can say 100% that if one person in a tight circle like this is guilty of cheating the odds are about 99% that all or most of the others are as well.

No ones going to take you seriously.
The fight needs some hype is that what it is ?

saul is my all time favourite fighter, is he taking untold stuff it would shock me if he werent

• BoxRec forum (2016) = “Canelo’s a weight bully! He must have entered around the 190lbs mark against Amir Khan!”

• BoxRec forum (2021) = “Canelo must be using PED’s! He’s hitting harder and his stamina issues have gone!”

Some pertinent facts:

• Canelo was 25 years of age when he engaged in a 155lbs catchweight bout against Amir Khan
• Canelo is currently 31 years of age and competes at 168lbs

Are people too stupid to realise that Canelo’s stamina issues may be due to being weight drained when he was competing around the 154lbs mark?

And now that Canelo is in his thirties and no longer has to shift a massive amount of weight immediately prior to his bouts, this might result in improved stamina levels, which consequently allows him to throw more power shots?

FFS! The sheer stupidity of some people! This place is bizarre!

Testing positive for PEDs usually makes people suspicious a fighter is in fact a PED user.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑10 Sep 2021, 11:40 Testing positive for PEDs usually makes people suspicious a fighter is in fact a PED user.

To be fair, according to current VADA/WADA protocols, if Canelo submitted the same samples today, he'd be deemed a clean fighter, because the rules have changed.

And without a doubt, Canelo has been the most frequently tested elite-level fighter since May 2018.

I just think that Canelo, like most athletes, tend to perform better around their late twenties/early thirties (due to physical maturity). And this is obviously compounded by the fact he no longer needs to drain himself to make weight.

If you disagree with me, then don’t eat for four days, drink very little liquid and time yourself running a mile and also try to achieve PR's at press-ups and barbell squats.

And the following week, eat and drink as much as you like, do the same exercises and compare the stats!

No wonder the sneaky bugger gets all those weight stipulations put into the fight contracts ie Kovalev, Fielding, Jacobs etc etc. Saps their strength then takes them out.

He has been caught with EPO after years and years of going from a skinny lanky kid to a bull toad. Everybody in sports uses PEDs, the difference is how you do it and when. Reynoso's camp is not that smart, compared to many others.

546853 wrote: ↑10 Sep 2021, 14:12

JxhDel. wrote: ↑10 Sep 2021, 13:50 He has been caught with EPO after years and years of going from a skinny lanky kid to a bull toad. Everybody in sports uses PEDs, the difference is how you do it and when. Reynoso's camp is not that smart, compared to many others.

^^^^^

This is exactly how it is. All the top level guys are using something but typically in enough moderation that it goes unquestioned.

In this case it's so brutally obvious that it's begun to draw a drove of unwanted attention as more positive tests continue to materialize and the guys in this camp display more and more of the tell-tale signs of heavy PED abuse.

"You can't accuse people of taking those things!"

Yeah, but we are not stupid either. You cannot make such drastic changes after you grow, by just working off like a mule, especially when many traits pop up with failed tests coming right after.

546853 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2021, 20:58

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 Sep 2021, 05:10 Yeah probably, and he's got money so he can buy the things to get around it.

Ya see you nailed it right there. That's the big under-scored thing about PEDs that most people in the general public just dont get.

The system of testing is set up to allow those with the proper resources to essentially bypass the system with elite level PEDs like the top notch pharmaceutical grade HGH thats extremely hard to get a steady supply of but is ALSO nearly impossible to detect with most of the current testing standards.

I laugh when these clowns try to tout someone as 'volunteering' on their own accord for VADA testing because there's soo many loopholes that its 100% pointless and a simple way for the major cheaters to pretend theyre somehow honest. Ya right.

Do you mind not quoting other people please, and just do single posts?
Thank You.
It just makes it easier to completely ignore you

546853 wrote: ↑13 Sep 2021, 10:31

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑07 Sep 2021, 10:52
It doesn’t take a genius to work out that you’re not using your brain:

• Canelo was 19 years of age when he fought Jose Cotto. He was facing a mature fighter that had only previously suffered one defeat during the course of 33 bouts.

• Canelo was only 20 years of age when he fought Matthew Hatton, with the Brit having previously engaged in 47 bouts. It was the Mexican's very first world title fight.

• Canelo was 29½ years of age when he fought Sergey Kovalev. It was the Mexican’s 56th fight, 15th world title bout and also the 15th time he was sharing the ring with a former/current world champion.

Let's perform a comparison:

• Manny Pacquiao was 20 years of age when he suffered a third round KO defeat to Boonsai Sangsurat, whilst campaigning at 112lbs. Manny's opponent had previously engaged in only 18 bouts.

• Manny Pacquiao was 29 years of age and competing as a welterweight when he scored a dominant 8th round stoppage over Oscar De La Hoya.

If you compared Canelo's performance levels and fighting weights at the ages of 20 and 29 to GGG, you'll find a lot of similarities.

Excellent response.

Facts responded with memes.

I win.