BoxRec

gregregegg wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:15

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:03

gregregegg wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 20:58

Wow so its much less than 30 percent bellow 225 and yet 30% of the belt winners have been. Thank you for proving yourself wrong.

What does 30% of the belt winners mean?

Only Deontay Wilder and Oleksandr Usyk have won world title fights within the last decade weighing 225lbs or less.

And it's only been done in seven world title fights within the last decade.

Nowhere near 30%, unless you're an utterly moronic uneducated lunatic that's never received any sort of education in mathematics.

in 2011-2021 we had 11 champions:

Klitschkos, Haye, Stiverne, Wilder, Fury, Martin, Joshua, Parker, Ruiz and now Usyk

ok fine i didnt add up to get my 30 %. lets do it now. its 3/11 counting haye, or 2/10 not. so alright its 20-27% depending on how you divide it.

your list had 3/60 being in that weight range.... so 5%... so really 225 and below heavyweights have a huge statistical tendancy to be world champions....

Two fighters have have held the world heavyweight title within the last decade, from a list of at least ten (from memory):

• Oleksandr Usyk
• Anthony Joshua
• Andy Ruiz Jr.
• Tyson Fury
• Wladimir Klitschko
• Charles Martin
• Joseph Parker
• Deontay Wilder
• Bermane Stiverne
• Vitali Klitschko

Only seven world title fights within the last decade were won by fighters weighing less than 225lbs.

If I only look at the WBA lineage, there were seventeen WBA world title fights within the last decade.

And of course, we also have to account for the other three main governing bodies too (i.e. WBC, WBO & IBF).

It doesn't matter how you try to misrepresent reality, the 30% figure you cited is complete utter nonsense!

You said I was "wrong", but you just pull random numbers out of your backside and dishonestly pretend to being "right"!

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:28 I will tell again, if 27% of title holders were <225lbs, and say that 30% of the fighters are <225lbs, it just proves that size matters, but not that much and <225lbs can compete at the top level. Size is height also. A lot of HWs are simply fat and could easily make 225 or 220, often it would be profitable for them.

But, as Greg noticed, if 27% of title holders were <225lbs and less than 27% fighters on your list are <225lbs, then it's even worse for you

No they weren't those numbers are nonsense!

List the names and let's see who's better at basic maths, shall we?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:37

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:28 I will tell again, if 27% of title holders were <225lbs, and say that 30% of the fighters are <225lbs, it just proves that size matters, but not that much and <225lbs can compete at the top level. Size is height also. A lot of HWs are simply fat and could easily make 225 or 220, often it would be profitable for them.

But, as Greg noticed, if 27% of title holders were <225lbs and less than 27% fighters on your list are <225lbs, then it's even worse for you

No they weren't those numbers are nonsense!

List the names and let's see who's better at basic maths, shall we?

3 out of 11, in other words, is 27% (even slighty more). The names are posted above.

What is the reason that you don't count Haye and count, say, superheavy, almost unbeatable due to his size Charles Martin?

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 20:01 Let's face it, Usyk beat Joshua with ease, Hunter is a top 10 HW now, Gassiev will be too, Briedis could be too if he moved there, all this ''those little guys stand no chance vs super heavies''. These CW's can fight in HW at 220-225lbs without rehydration and without losing their advantages. Bridgerweight is useless, no need for it.

Perseus wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:42

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 20:01 Let's face it, Usyk beat Joshua with ease, Hunter is a top 10 HW now, Gassiev will be too, Briedis could be too if he moved there, all this ''those little guys stand no chance vs super heavies''. These CW's can fight in HW at 220-225lbs without rehydration and without losing their advantages. Bridgerweight is useless, no need for it.

I forgot to put ''is nonsense'' at the end of the first sentence, but I see that you know what I meant

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:35

gregregegg wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:15

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:03
What does 30% of the belt winners mean?

Only Deontay Wilder and Oleksandr Usyk have won world title fights within the last decade weighing 225lbs or less.

And it's only been done in seven world title fights within the last decade.

Nowhere near 30%, unless you're an utterly moronic uneducated lunatic that's never received any sort of education in mathematics.

in 2011-2021 we had 11 champions:

Klitschkos, Haye, Stiverne, Wilder, Fury, Martin, Joshua, Parker, Ruiz and now Usyk

ok fine i didnt add up to get my 30 %. lets do it now. its 3/11 counting haye, or 2/10 not. so alright its 20-27% depending on how you divide it.

your list had 3/60 being in that weight range.... so 5%... so really 225 and below heavyweights have a huge statistical tendancy to be world champions....

Two fighters have have held the world heavyweight title within the last decade, from a list of at least ten (from memory):

• Oleksandr Usyk
• Anthony Joshua
• Andy Ruiz Jr.
• Tyson Fury
• Wladimir Klitschko
• Charles Martin
• Joseph Parker
• Deontay Wilder
• Bermane Stiverne
• Vitali Klitschko

Only seven world title fights within the last decade were won by fighters weighing less than 225lbs.

If I only look at the WBA lineage, there were seventeen WBA world title fights within the last decade.

And of course, we also have to account for the other three main governing bodies too (i.e. WBC, WBO & IBF).

It doesn't matter how you try to misrepresent reality, the 30% figure you cited is complete utter nonsense!

You said I was "wrong", but you just pull random numbers out of your backside and dishonestly pretend to being "right"!

Again, you didn't put Haye on that list and you seem to be unable to explain why, so my guess is: for no reason or to make your point look better.

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:40

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:37

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:28 I will tell again, if 27% of title holders were <225lbs, and say that 30% of the fighters are <225lbs, it just proves that size matters, but not that much and <225lbs can compete at the top level. Size is height also. A lot of HWs are simply fat and could easily make 225 or 220, often it would be profitable for them.

But, as Greg noticed, if 27% of title holders were <225lbs and less than 27% fighters on your list are <225lbs, then it's even worse for you

No they weren't those numbers are nonsense!

List the names and let's see who's better at basic maths, shall we?

3 out of 11, in other words, is 27% (even slighty more). The names are posted above.

Name 11 world heavyweight champions within the last decade.

Name 3 fighters within the last decade weighing less than 225lbs when they won or successfully defended the world heavyweight title.

If you can do both, then I'll apologise.

You won't be able to do this though.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:48

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:40

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:37
No they weren't those numbers are nonsense!

List the names and let's see who's better at basic maths, shall we?

3 out of 11, in other words, is 27% (even slighty more). The names are posted above.

Name 11 world heavyweight champions within the last decade.

Name 3 fighters within the last decade weighing less than 225lbs when they won or successfully defended the world heavyweight title.

If you can do both, then I'll apologise.

You won't be able to do this though.

Okay, i see what you mean. I said years 2011-2021, while you mean decade. Fine, it's 20% then. Let's make it since 2006 and we will get:

5 fighters who were champions fighting at <225lbs (23,8%) - Byrd, Ibragimov, Haye, Wilder, Usyk

3 fighters who were champions fighting at <225lbs previously/won their title before 2006 being <225lbs or fought at <225lbs at the very top level (like title eliminator, for example) (14,2%) - Rahman, Brewster, Chagaev

13 are the rest of the champions, some of them made <225lbs at some point of their careers, but were champions/fought at the top level at +225lbs only: Fury, Martin, Klitschkos, Joshua, Parker, Ruiz, Stiverne, Peter, Briggs, Maskaev, Liakhovich, Valuev.

Still, not bad. 38% of champions since 2006 could make <225lbs at the very top level. Those, who couldn't include 6'1 Ruiz, who is simply obese, Liakhovich who fought at <225lbs at some point of his career, a 6,1 Stiverne, who obviously isn't an example of a super-heavy, Charles Martin who is the worst out of the bunch (and won a title due to an injury of his <225lbs opponent, though imo he would win anyway), among others.

The fact is: The only truly Super-Heavy champions in the last 15 years were: Klitschkos, Joshua, Fury, Valuev (but that's a very special case), and maybe Martin, who wasn't a real champ anyway, but was a title holder so he gets mentioned.

And I don't mean that weight classes doesn't need to change, I just mean that we don't need more weight classes, no bridgerweigth and super-heavy bullshit.

That's how it should look like in my opinion:

Minimumweight - 47kg (103,4lbs)
Flyweight - 49kg (107,8lbs)
Bantamweight -52kg (114,4lbs)
Featherweight - 56kg (123,2lbs)
Lightweight - 60kg (132lbs)
Super Lightweight - 64kg (140,8lbs)
Welterweight - 69kg (151,8lbs)
Middleweight - 75kg (165lbs)
Super Middleweight - 81kg (178,2lbs)
Light Heavyweight - 87kg (191,8lbs)
Cruiserweight - 95kg (209,4lbs)
Heavyweight - No Limit

12 weight classes is enough.

Yes, the bridgersh!t is a farce.

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 22:13

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:48

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:40

3 out of 11, in other words, is 27% (even slighty more). The names are posted above.

Name 11 world heavyweight champions within the last decade.

Name 3 fighters within the last decade weighing less than 225lbs when they won or successfully defended the world heavyweight title.

If you can do both, then I'll apologise.

You won't be able to do this though.

Okay, i see what you mean. I said years 2011-2021, while you mean decade. Fine, it's 20% then.

I don’t need to respond to the rest of your damage limitation excuses, where you do your upmost to creatively try to defend your original fictional stance.

The only thing that matters is that you finally admit the original per percentage you cited was over inflated by 33%, which is a massive over exaggeration.

End of discussion.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 09:37

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 22:13

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:48
Name 11 world heavyweight champions within the last decade.

Name 3 fighters within the last decade weighing less than 225lbs when they won or successfully defended the world heavyweight title.

If you can do both, then I'll apologise.

You won't be able to do this though.

Okay, i see what you mean. I said years 2011-2021, while you mean decade. Fine, it's 20% then.

I don’t need to respond to the rest of your damage limitation excuses, where you do your upmost to creatively try to defend your original fictional stance.

The only thing that matters is that you finally admit the original per percentage you cited was over inflated by 33%, which is a massive over exaggeration.

End of discussion.

20% is still not bad.

I guess that you're still upset with the fact that Usyk won, while you gave him no chances

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 09:37

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 22:13

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 21:48
Name 11 world heavyweight champions within the last decade.

Name 3 fighters within the last decade weighing less than 225lbs when they won or successfully defended the world heavyweight title.

If you can do both, then I'll apologise.

You won't be able to do this though.

Okay, i see what you mean. I said years 2011-2021, while you mean decade. Fine, it's 20% then.

I don’t need to respond to the rest of your damage limitation excuses, where you do your upmost to creatively try to defend your original fictional stance.

The only thing that matters is that you finally admit the original per percentage you cited was over inflated by 33%, which is a massive over exaggeration.

End of discussion.

It wasn't, i said that i meant years 2011-2021.

Briedis, gassiev, hunter, usyk, wilder currently

Byrd
Povetkin
Holyfield
Haye
John ruiz
Brewster
James toney
Roy jones
Chagaev

All past 20 year hw who hovered around 225 and had success

Wlads dominance skews things but is that an outlier or a new trend?

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 11:29 Wlads dominance skews things but is that an outlier or a new trend?

Remember that Wlad lost to Sanders and Brewster, who obviously weren't super heavies

I think once Fury retires, we will see a return to smaller and faster heavyweights. Don't get me wrong there will always be big men in the heavyweight division, but there are not that many enormous fighters who are very skilled.

The Klitschko brothers, Lennox Lewis, Tyson Fury, and to a lesser extent Wilder and Joshua, are exceptions to the rule rather than the rule. Big men who can box well or who have great athleticism are few and far between in boxing.

aicheligad wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 11:49

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 11:29 Wlads dominance skews things but is that an outlier or a new trend?

Remember that Wlad lost to Sanders and Brewster, who obviously weren't super heavies

Yep
225 and 226 respectively

aicheligad wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 09:49

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 09:37

aicheligad wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 22:13

Okay, i see what you mean. I said years 2011-2021, while you mean decade. Fine, it's 20% then.

I don’t need to respond to the rest of your damage limitation excuses, where you do your upmost to creatively try to defend your original fictional stance.

The only thing that matters is that you finally admit the original per percentage you cited was over inflated by 33%, which is a massive over exaggeration.

End of discussion.

It wasn't, i said that i meant years 2011-2021.

If that’s what you meant, you didn’t write it like that.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 11:23 Briedis, gassiev, hunter, usyk, wilder currently

Byrd
Povetkin
Holyfield
Haye
John ruiz
Brewster
James toney
Roy jones
Chagaev

All past 20 year hw who hovered around 225 and had success

Some stats I quoted September 2020:

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 20:24
The following list represents the mathematical average weights of the winners/champions of the world heavyweight title fights (including the WBA variants) that occurred within the last twenty years (rounded to the nearest pound):

• WBA = 247lbs
• WBC = 240lbs
• IBF = 242lbs
• WBO = 242lbs

Lol average come on man you know im not fooled by that

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 12:48

aicheligad wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 09:49

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 09:37
I don’t need to respond to the rest of your damage limitation excuses, where you do your upmost to creatively try to defend your original fictional stance.

The only thing that matters is that you finally admit the original per percentage you cited was over inflated by 33%, which is a massive over exaggeration.

End of discussion.

It wasn't, i said that i meant years 2011-2021.

If that’s what you meant, you didn’t write it like that.

''in 2011-2021 we had 11 champions:

Klitschkos, Haye, Stiverne, Wilder, Fury, Martin, Joshua, Parker, Ruiz and now Usyk

3 of them were the <225lbs fighters: Haye, Wilder, Usyk.

Other 2, Stiverne and Ruiz, aren't even 190cm.

Some of the best fighters who failed to get the title in recent years were Povetkin and Chagaev. There were others who tried like Adamek etc.''

Here are some HW prospects The Enlightened One will be interested in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fatest+ ... ejftwwLauM