BoxRec

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 02:33

KiwiRider wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 02:32

Bleak wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 02:29 One thing I noticed was him being
Way to nice in the build up to
The fight and I don’t remember him
being like that before.

Him and Parker were pretty chummy, polite and respectful. Also a lot of respect between AJ and Wlad.

He's a polite guy, he isn't a trash talker - even when Dillian Whyte was trying it on, he didn't rise to the bait in the way Chisora did.

True
He has carried himself pretty darn well before and after becoming a champ in direct contrast to Fury and Wilder especially

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 02:04 the size difference between the average hw and cruiser isnt as great as people think, a lot of career hws could make cruiser or get close if they lost the flab and dehydrated some weight before the fight

obviously guys like aj, fury, etc are natural shws. but how much bigger is a guy like joe parker or whyte really compared to usyk? even at their lower weights these guys have absolutely no definition to be seen

Spot on. At the weigh in & in the ring the biggest surprise to me was how big Usyk looked & it was natural bulk. No huge biceps or weight round his gut.

He’s bigger than Takam & Povetkin, not much smaller than Parker. He’s a solid heavyweight

Good heavyweight in a very poor era

I have always been saying that Joshua was being given many dividends in advance. It was clear for me since the Olympics. It was clear for me with the Wlad scorecards (and other ones too). It was clear with the Ruiz bout. It is clear now.

However, his career isn't over. He was double lucky to emerge in the era of several belts and in the time, when the true HW king was out of the scene for a while. Joshua even can grab some strap again in the future and he'll still sell.

He's a big guy with huge power and decent fundamentals. He's robotic and stiff, but he has enough tools to be in the top niche today because of his size, power and an ability to deliver it. He just isn't in the class of the sweet science masters like Fury and Usyk.

Joshua is one of the best of a very bad bunch.

The Bruno comparison is oft used - and with good reason .. he looks the part, just can't fight like we'd want.

He has some power when he can comes forward as any 17st guy will, but he looks very vulnerable going back .. couple of times last night his legs looked like they were gonna go funny.

He can still earn good money; he is still one of the top guys .. and that just demonstrates how this crop of heavyweights are so bad.

Slow-Joe-Joyce would be evens to wear Joshua down on that. The Juggernaut would have Joshua on the back foot and good chance of beating him up to get a stoppage too.

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:24 Slow-Joe-Joyce would be evens to wear Joshua down on that. The Juggernaut would have Joshua on the back foot and good chance of beating him up to get a stoppage too.

That's the fight that should me made for Joshua now. F*ck the rematch clauses. Let Usyk wait for Fury and fight him in the early 2022.

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:24

Slow-Joe-Joyce would be evens to wear Joshua down on that. The Juggernaut would have Joshua on the back foot and good chance of beating him up to get a stoppage too.

I’d love that

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:24 Joshua is one of the best of a very bad bunch.

The Bruno comparison is oft used - and with good reason .. he looks the part, just can't fight like we'd want.

He has some power when he can comes forward as any 17st guy will, but he looks very vulnerable going back .. couple of times last night his legs looked like they were gonna go funny.

He can still earn good money; he is still one of the top guys .. and that just demonstrates how this crop of heavyweights are so bad.

Slow-Joe-Joyce would be evens to wear Joshua down on that. The Juggernaut would have Joshua on the back foot and good chance of beating him up to get a stoppage too.

Loadsa guys beat AJ, been saying it for ages. Found his level somewhere between Andy Ruiz & Joseph Parker (which is still very commendable for a guy who started the sport at 18). But give me Joyce, Fury, Wilder, Dubois, Hrgovic, Whyte over AJ, no problem.

The concern for a Usyk rematch is that Joshua didn't hurt Usyk or even look to bother him.
Whereas Usyk looked like he had every answer for Joshua .. and looked like a guy who had a gear or two left in reserve.

Tactics for a rematch are the obvious jump on Usyk from the start, but that probably would suit Usyk more because that straight left would feel even heavier .. and Joshua would gas sooner.

A rematch would likely be Joshua's last fight. He rich enough to walk away.

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:31

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:24 Slow-Joe-Joyce would be evens to wear Joshua down on that. The Juggernaut would have Joshua on the back foot and good chance of beating him up to get a stoppage too.

That's the fight that should me made for Joshua now. F*ck the rematch clauses. Let Usyk wait for Fury and fight him in the early 2022.

But JJJ would be there for AJ to hit, AJ does great against those who stand in front of him.

Klit was a losable fight and AJ needed to take risks to get the job done, he didn't really take risks against Usyk. Maybe that was what he lost against Ruiz in becoming a bit risk averse.

If the Fury fight happens he will have to take risks and bring the fight to the Gypsy King.

Ricky wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:44

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:24 Joshua is one of the best of a very bad bunch.

The Bruno comparison is oft used - and with good reason .. he looks the part, just can't fight like we'd want.

He has some power when he can comes forward as any 17st guy will, but he looks very vulnerable going back .. couple of times last night his legs looked like they were gonna go funny.

He can still earn good money; he is still one of the top guys .. and that just demonstrates how this crop of heavyweights are so bad.

Slow-Joe-Joyce would be evens to wear Joshua down on that. The Juggernaut would have Joshua on the back foot and good chance of beating him up to get a stoppage too.

Loadsa guys beat AJ, been saying it for ages. Found his level somewhere between Andy Ruiz & Joseph Parker (which is still very commendable for a guy who started the sport at 18). But give me Joyce, Fury, Wilder, Dubois, Hrgovic, Whyte over AJ, no problem.

IMO at top level they guys you mention are nothing special(other than Fury)

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 05:08

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:31

tonyevs wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 04:24 Slow-Joe-Joyce would be evens to wear Joshua down on that. The Juggernaut would have Joshua on the back foot and good chance of beating him up to get a stoppage too.

That's the fight that should me made for Joshua now. F*ck the rematch clauses. Let Usyk wait for Fury and fight him in the early 2022.

But JJJ would be there for AJ to hit, AJ does great against those who stand in front of him.

Klit was a losable fight and AJ needed to take risks to get the job done, he didn't really take risks against Usyk. Maybe that was what he lost against Ruiz in becoming a bit risk averse.

If the Fury fight happens he will have to take risks and bring the fight to the Gypsy King.

Probably it was a chin factor with Klitschko. Joshua didn't engage, unless he hurt Wlad. Usyk was taking Joshua's punches well, leaving AJ no chances.

And Fury can both box and fight. He also can take a punch. Joshua simply has no tools for Fury at all. Only Usyk can be on par with Fury as a boxer, but Fury can rough it up more effectively than anyome Usyk fought.

He’s definitely changed since Ruiz 1, a lot more gunshy and afraid of gassing out (which they’re trying to hide behind a ‘more improved technical style’). All those occasions he’s been dropped in sparring can’t have helped either

But overall he’s had an excellent career - never ducked anyone (unlike Fury), pulled out of fights (unlike Fury), failed a PED test (unlike Fury) and has certainly made the most of his physical advantages despite limited natural ability.

Not sure he would have ever beaten Usyk, but would have been interesting to see how it played out with the Joshua of a few years ago, when he just used to go for the knockout ASAP.

I can't say he's overachieved. It's not his fault the HW division isn't the best or the best don't fight the best al the time.

Either way, he's been the best of the rest regardless.

He'll still beat plenty of the rest as well.

don't know why most have said overachieved.

He can definitely bang, he may not have one shot KO power, but it was always his combinations which dropped opponents and he can box when he needed to.

We saw this a few times.

He just fought a much better boxer this weekend,

What i thought was very strange at the weekend was the lack of urgency in trying to come from behind to stop Usyk,surely his corner must have said he needed the ko ?

I think Joshua is gun shy and lost his confidence after Ruiz battered him. If Hughie Fury is the white Muhammad Ali, AJ is the black David Price lol. I mean obviously he’s superior to Price, but in a similar way he seems to have lost confidence in himself, his chin, and is scared to let the shots go. Remember with Ruiz he hurt him and started to land big shots then Ruiz bowled him over after eating massive shots as AJ went to finish it. It’s like he’s scared of that happening again.

Joshua isn’t a natural boxer and you always got that feeling he didn’t like being punched back. He was like a big school bully who matured earlier then everyone else so could lean on them with his size…… but then loses his confidence after getting walloped in front of the whole school by a smaller, fat kid he bullied

bigjack wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 07:54 What i thought was very strange at the weekend was the lack of urgency in trying to come from behind to stop Usyk,surely his corner must have said he needed the ko ?

I thought he'd come out rd12 and go guns blazing. But Usyk dominated the full 3 minutes.

Usyk had that urgency every round. I've said before, I'm glad he didn't take the first few rounds off like he usually does.

He was already against it with the judges as well and Foster proved that.

He didn't let AJ settle one bit.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:35

bigjack wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 07:54 What i thought was very strange at the weekend was the lack of urgency in trying to come from behind to stop Usyk,surely his corner must have said he needed the ko ?

I thought he'd come out rd12 and go guns blazing. But Usyk dominated the full 3 minutes.

Usyk had that urgency every round. I've said before, I'm glad he didn't take the first few rounds off like he usually does.

He was already against it with the judges as well and Foster proved that.

He didn't let AJ settle one bit.

According to the corner Joshua was boxing beautifully. And was winning the fight. “Brilliant boxing AJ! Brilliant footwork! Brilliant!’. Also notice Joshua’s surprise when Usyk was given the decision

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:40

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:35

bigjack wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 07:54 What i thought was very strange at the weekend was the lack of urgency in trying to come from behind to stop Usyk,surely his corner must have said he needed the ko ?

I thought he'd come out rd12 and go guns blazing. But Usyk dominated the full 3 minutes.

Usyk had that urgency every round. I've said before, I'm glad he didn't take the first few rounds off like he usually does.

He was already against it with the judges as well and Foster proved that.

He didn't let AJ settle one bit.

According to the corner Joshua was boxing beautifully. And was winning the fight. “Brilliant boxing AJ! Brilliant footwork! Brilliant!’. Also notice Joshua’s surprise when Usyk was given the decision

"pump the jab" is all I heard.

After the final bell rang, AJ looked the most defeated I ever thought i'd seen him.

He was concussed, he couldn't get off his seat for ages.

Bellew was the most upset, cus Usyk I going through his friends, himself, Chis and now AJ.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:44

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:40

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:35

I thought he'd come out rd12 and go guns blazing. But Usyk dominated the full 3 minutes.

Usyk had that urgency every round. I've said before, I'm glad he didn't take the first few rounds off like he usually does.

He was already against it with the judges as well and Foster proved that.

He didn't let AJ settle one bit.

According to the corner Joshua was boxing beautifully. And was winning the fight. “Brilliant boxing AJ! Brilliant footwork! Brilliant!’. Also notice Joshua’s surprise when Usyk was given the decision

"pump the jab" is all I heard.

After the final bell rang, AJ looked the most defeated I ever thought i'd seen him.

He was concussed, he couldn't get off his seat for ages.

Bellew was the most upset, cus Usyk I going through his friends, himself, Chis and now AJ.

I agree but look at his face when the MC announces Usyk the winner. He looks across with his mouth open as if to say “what”? It was odd…. Probably couldn’t believe that Howard Foster scored against him lol

He started very well but the problems could be seen from the Whyte fight getting caught and gassing. The Snickers kid defeat made him gun shy and he's regressed too much in his attacking, now seems quite ordinary.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:11 I think Joshua is gun shy and lost his confidence after Ruiz battered him. If Hughie Fury is the white Muhammad Ali, AJ is the black David Price lol. I mean obviously he’s superior to Price, but in a similar way he seems to have lost confidence in himself, his chin, and is scared to let the shots go. Remember with Ruiz he hurt him and started to land big shots then Ruiz bowled him over after eating massive shots as AJ went to finish it. It’s like he’s scared of that happening again.

Spot on, and he & his team probably believed the hype after he outboxed Ruiz in the rematch. They forgot that Ruiz was a walking tub of lard at that point.
I don't think there was any shame in losing to Ruiz in the first fight, he walked into one it happens, but why change a winning recipe? Lewis got clocked twice, but he came back without changing his style. Joshua is good when he comes forward and use his best assets, size, power and good speed. A master boxer of the back foot he is not.

I wonder what would have been the career of AJ if he had correctly lost the decision to the Cuban in his 2012 opening bout...........

He can thank that home cooking for 4he countless millions he has earned since then.

A loss there and he may have packed the game in.

For me he needs to get back to being the spiteful AJ we saw in the early years. He didn't throw one combination against Usyk
He simply continued down a path that was always doomed to fail.

I loved watching Bellew after the fight doing his typical attention seeking sullky bullshit. Such a whiny annoying bloke. Very scouse. The victim, the drama queen the kernob jockey

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:40

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 08:35

bigjack wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 07:54 What i thought was very strange at the weekend was the lack of urgency in trying to come from behind to stop Usyk,surely his corner must have said he needed the ko ?

I thought he'd come out rd12 and go guns blazing. But Usyk dominated the full 3 minutes.

Usyk had that urgency every round. I've said before, I'm glad he didn't take the first few rounds off like he usually does.

He was already against it with the judges as well and Foster proved that.

He didn't let AJ settle one bit.

According to the corner Joshua was boxing beautifully. And was winning the fight. “Brilliant boxing AJ! Brilliant footwork! Brilliant!’. Also notice Joshua’s surprise when Usyk was given the decision

I think the corner were pretty awful. They needed to tell him the truth, or maybe they believed he was winning, either way, total shower of shite.

His career has been incredible in terms of PPV buys, commercial acumen and selling out stadiums. His popularity has definitely waned a bit however in the last couple of years, but take nothing away, he has been a breakthrough sportsman of the type you barely get in Boxing anymore.

In terms of his boxing, he just doesn't have that standout victory or performance at the top level. He has lots of very good wins over fighters who were Top 10 HWs at the time, albeit a number past their peak.

There'll be a large number of fighters who now genuinely believe they can beat Joshua, when pre Ruiz 1 it would have only been Fury and Wilder.