BoxRec

I said it would sound weird!

Serious question though, what is Tyson’s best win?

Wlad was well past it and not that good initially.

Like you, I’m sure Tyson beats those guys. But it’s not like we can stack up loads of evidence to support that belief.

peter barlow wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:06 The size of Fury dwarfs the old ATGs. Only Lennox could handle him.

I mean he went to Germany and mugged off Wladimir on him turf. Wlad is no 2 all time on Boxrecs own rankings

This myth about this fight continues.

Fury's reaction post fight showed they didn't know if he won - but with each passing year it becomes a "schooling".

Had Klitchscko got the verdict all I can say is there have been worse decisions in both Germany and the UK in recent times.

stujones wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:14

peter barlow wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:06 The size of Fury dwarfs the old ATGs. Only Lennox could handle him.

I mean he went to Germany and mugged off Wladimir on him turf. Wlad is no 2 all time on Boxrecs own rankings

This myth about this fight continues.

Fury's reaction post fight showed they didn't know if he won - but with each passing year it becomes a "schooling".

Had Klitchscko got the verdict all I can say is there have been worse decisions in both Germany and the UK in recent times.

Furys reaction was because we all expected him to get jobbed on the cards given the tricks and games, and the fact was Wlad was the home fighter unbeaten in 11 years.

I was at the fight. It was magnificent win away from home. Anyone dismissing that is talking gibberish.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:13 I said it would sound weird!

Serious question though, what is Tyson’s best win?

Wlad was well past it and not that good initially.

Like you, I’m sure Tyson beats those guys. But it’s not like we can stack up loads of evidence to support that belief.

Wlad wasn't well past it.

Dorothy Parker once quipped 'if you laid head to toe all the British heavyweights that ever existed I would not be surprised' and here we have a very good fighter who has yet to be beaten.

I remember back in the eighties when Bruno was about to fight Tim Witherspoon for the world title about how long we had to wait for a British world heavyweight champion and many pundits would say that day would never ever come as American dominance would last forever - and here we are!

The only question is he better than Lewis, I don't think so but I think he has the capabilities of beating Uysk and retiring undefeated which means that will be a long way to go for any other British heavyweight to eliminate... not in our lifetimes I don't think.

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:19

Frostieballs wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:13 I said it would sound weird!

Serious question though, what is Tyson’s best win?

Wlad was well past it and not that good initially.

Like you, I’m sure Tyson beats those guys. But it’s not like we can stack up loads of evidence to support that belief.

Wlad wasn't well past it.

I’m not sure. He certainly wasn’t in his prime.

What is his next best win? Wilder?

I’m not saying he isn’t a great. I just don’t think he has had the oppo to prove it.

Last night was amazing. Best fight in years. But Tyson made it hard for himself against a limited banger by being out of shape.

Lewis clear number one

Fury clear number two.

After that the debates probably start.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:28

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:19

Frostieballs wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:13 I said it would sound weird!

Serious question though, what is Tyson’s best win?

Wlad was well past it and not that good initially.

Like you, I’m sure Tyson beats those guys. But it’s not like we can stack up loads of evidence to support that belief.

Wlad wasn't well past it.

I’m not sure. He certainly wasn’t in his prime.

What is his next best win? Wilder?

I’m not saying he isn’t a great. I just don’t think he has had the oppo to prove it.

Last night was amazing. Best fight in years. But Tyson made it hard for himself against a limited banger by being out of shape.

Wlad didn't show any signs of severe decline. He was schooling Joshua next fight, until got caught. It's an example, where a boxer retired in time, without significant decline. Like Lewis.

Wilder is his next big win. And it's not just a win, but a triple win. Wilder has been in the top 2 for quite a while along with Joshua. His resume isn't that good like Joshua's, but he is definitely a World class puncher.

ewenhay wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:40 Lewis clear number one

Fury clear number two.

After that the debates probably start.

Based on achievements/titles this is nail on head.

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:46

Frostieballs wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:28

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:19

Wlad wasn't well past it.

I’m not sure. He certainly wasn’t in his prime.

What is his next best win? Wilder?

I’m not saying he isn’t a great. I just don’t think he has had the oppo to prove it.

Last night was amazing. Best fight in years. But Tyson made it hard for himself against a limited banger by being out of shape.

Wlad didn't show any signs of severe decline. He was schooling Joshua next fight, until got caught. It's an example, where a boxer retired in time, without significant decline. Like Lewis.

Wilder is his next big win. And it's not just a win, but a triple win. Wilder has been in the top 2 for quite a while along with Joshua. His resume isn't that good like Joshua's, but he is definitely a World class puncher.

And this is my point. He is most probably the second best ever British heavyweight....

But his second best performance has been against a limited boxer (albeit a world class puncher).

ewenhay wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:40 Lewis clear number one

Fury clear number two.

After that the debates probably start.

I agree, but not British that's the GOAT list....

And if Fury keeps going and beats Usyk and AJ, maybe Whyte then....

I'm not a huge believer in Usyk being particularly amazing as a heavyweight, but I suspect he might be able to capitalise on Fury's eccentric approach. Wilder is a game puncher but would have been a sitting duck for most decent heavyweight champions. I think Fury needs to get on with showing he can actually cope with Usyk, Joshua, Joyce etc and not just go inactive again.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 08:17

Verdi wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 08:12 Lewis still has the best resume, but Tyson could certainly pass him and take that #1 spot.

if fury beats both Usyk and AJ it certainly brings them closer. it he added Whyte and Joyce, closer still. TBH even then I'd put Lewis higher.

For me Fury needs to beat Usek, AJ, Whyte, Joyce, DDD, Yoka, Ruiz and Ortiz to cement second place behind Lewis.

That's ridiculous. Why does he need to beat so many fighters who are ranked lower than him?

Who do you have second at the moment?

I forgot to put Don Cockell on the list

No.

ewenhay wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 12:46 That's ridiculous. Why does he need to beat so many fighters who are ranked lower than him?

Who do you have second at the moment?

A champion is supposed to defend a belt. So far he has faced the same guy 3 times who was grossly overrated. I would pick jjj, ddd and whyte to beat wilder along with a bunch of others.

Fury's best win is a close decision stink out against an a very inactive wlad and he avoided a rematch.

Unfortunaty, As it stands I have Joshua above him on calibre of wins. I appreciate AJ's wins are not great and holes can be picked and I do think Fury would beat AJ, but he hasn't done it yet.

I also think Bruno would have beaten AJ, but we are talking accomishments and defending the belt against ranked contenders.

Roco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 13:16

ewenhay wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 12:46 That's ridiculous. Why does he need to beat so many fighters who are ranked lower than him?

Who do you have second at the moment?

A champion is supposed to defend a belt. So far he has faced the same guy 3 times who was grossly overrated. I would pick jjj, ddd and whyte to beat wilder along with a bunch of others.

Fury's best win is a close decision stink out against an a very inactive wlad and he avoided a rematch.

Unfortunaty, As it stands I have Joshua above him on calibre of wins. I appreciate AJ's wins are not great and holes can be picked and I do think Fury would beat AJ, but he hasn't done it yet.

I also think Bruno would have beaten AJ, but we are talking accomishments and defending the belt against ranked contenders.

No, we're talking best British heavyweight.

And there's no way in a million years that Joshua is a better fighter than Fury.

But asking Fury to beat 8 or 9 guys ranked lower than him before you'd rank him above Joshua is unrealistic. Surely he just needs to beat Usyk or Joshua himself using your own logic? Why Dubois? He's not even in the picture. And why Joyce and Dubois? Same with some of the others on your list. It's just sour grapes.

Fury needs to beat Dubois and Ortiz before you rank him ahead of Joshua? Give me a break

Roco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 12:44

Steveh583 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 08:17

Verdi wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 08:12 Lewis still has the best resume, but Tyson could certainly pass him and take that #1 spot.

if fury beats both Usyk and AJ it certainly brings them closer. it he added Whyte and Joyce, closer still. TBH even then I'd put Lewis higher.

For me Fury needs to beat Usek, AJ, Whyte, Joyce, DDD, Yoka, Ruiz and Ortiz to cement second place behind Lewis.

He's already 2nd behind Lewis. Ortiz? Yoka? Dubois? Joyce? Barely a top 10 fighter there ffs

He would obliterate all of them.

ewenhay wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:40 Lewis clear number one

Fury clear number two.

After that the debates probably start.

Yep. Lewis was not only good enough to beat or give nightmares to every other ATG heavyweight on his day (although I certainly don't think he would win every match, especially given his chin) but also has probably the best overall body of work since Ali.

Fury may also be a very hard match-up for every other HW, but has a very short list of top win, even compared with say AJ. Even if he was much more active, there isnt the depth of talent at HW there was in the 90s to catch Lewis up.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:52

ewenhay wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 09:40 Lewis clear number one

Fury clear number two.

After that the debates probably start.

Based on achievements/titles this is nail on head.

Black and white for me, who else could you put up against those 2?
Bruno, Cooper or Farr?
You have Bob Fitzsimmons but he was like 13st.
AJ will prob get a shot at Fury down the line but would of course need to win.
For Fury to go above Lewis his level of opposition would have to improve, but these boxers don't exist, beating, AJ, Usyk, Whyte and Joyce wouldn't be enough.
However when Lewis went down he stayed down!

not at all at the level of LL

Lennox for me number 1. Fury needs to add some names to his resume to get close. Beat AJ/Usyk then we can talk.

Fury has some work still to do.
2 good opponents so far. Maybe beating Del Boy counts as well, but I believe Del wasn't at his peak then either.
Thing is, will he do it?
The guy is so unpredictable both inside and outside the ring. I don't even think we saw the best Fury last night. Will we ever see the best Fury?
Will he go off the rails?
Retire?
Open a kebab shop and get wide on his own supply?

I can guarantee he will continue to stuff the HW division around though.

Lennox Lewis is one of very few men in heavyweight history I can see giving Fury problems or beating him, because of the IQ and heavy hands. But Lennox could be out fought (ie, McCall & Rahman) and could look very unimpressive against movers (ie, Zev) and Fury has demonstrated that he can box brilliantly or dig down deep and brawl.

One of the biggest knocks against Lennox Lewis is he never quite fought the biggest challenges of his life when they were all in their prime (ie, Holyfield and Tyson) and it really depends on what mindset and shape Lewis came in. Then again that same criticism can be given to Fury.

Judging by his last performance against Vitali Klitschko, I have little doubt that that version of Lennox Lewis would have lost to Tyson Fury.

I think if he continues boxing and continues winning Fury will go down in the history books as the best big man (6'5"+) in heavyweight history.