BoxRec

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 13:58

snake33 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 13:57 Oh yeah. We sure don't want to over rate Tyson Fury more than we are drastically over rating Usyk.
Usyk ain't gonna beat Fury.
and
Fury beat Wilder twice fair and square.
and
Lennox Lewis did beat Vitali. He really did.

remember when you told everyone how aj would beat usyk easy, that he wouldnt make a dent at hw and was no threat to josh, and that he should fight at briderweight instead

do you underrated usyk more than those other dudes overrate him?

I didn't say those things.
Usyk is not an elite heavyweight. He does not have HW power. He beat Joshua because Joshua did not fight back.
Ask Joshua what's wrong with him. If Usyk had fought the Joshua who fought Whyte even it would have been a much different fight. Usyk was landing clean on Joshua late in the fight couldn't knock him out. Lacks the ability.
That does not logically translate to Usyk beating Fury. Fury takes up a lot of room and would and could bum rush him all night. Usyk was great at lower weights but he is far from unbeatable at HW. Had Joshua not fell apart against Ruiz he would have done much better against Usyk. Joshua lost much more than Usyk won.

joshua suffers simply from fear of getting knocked out again. like vlad did.

gunshy until he get's rattled, then he snaps out of his phlegma and survival instict sets in and he'll fight back.

573100 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 08:26

570991 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 08:16
From his recent performance - Usyk beats him.

You're arrival at this conclusion is too simplistic, there's so many variables at play. Fury looks sloppy from a technical point of view, as far as punch technique goes Joshua is much more text book - but what Tyson Fury does well is utilize his tools to the best of his ability, he knows how to fully weaponize his long reach and huge weight. To say Usyk is a better technician and would therefore win is a naive.

I've met your other personality 571340 at the urinal the other day, not a bad bloke really, tiny c*ck.

snake33 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 14:44

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 13:58

snake33 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 13:57 Oh yeah. We sure don't want to over rate Tyson Fury more than we are drastically over rating Usyk.
Usyk ain't gonna beat Fury.
and
Fury beat Wilder twice fair and square.
and
Lennox Lewis did beat Vitali. He really did.

remember when you told everyone how aj would beat usyk easy, that he wouldnt make a dent at hw and was no threat to josh, and that he should fight at briderweight instead

do you underrated usyk more than those other dudes overrate him?

I didn't say those things.
Usyk is not an elite heavyweight. He does not have HW power. He beat Joshua because Joshua did not fight back.
Ask Joshua what's wrong with him. If Usyk had fought the Joshua who fought Whyte even it would have been a much different fight. Usyk was landing clean on Joshua late in the fight couldn't knock him out. Lacks the ability.
That does not logically translate to Usyk beating Fury. Fury takes up a lot of room and would and could bum rush him all night. Usyk was great at lower weights but he is far from unbeatable at HW. Had Joshua not fell apart against Ruiz he would have done much better against Usyk. Joshua lost much more than Usyk won.

oh, you didnt

snake33 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2020, 12:55 Usyk is not going to going to beat Joshua or Fury, period.

snake33 wrote: ↑12 Dec 2020, 22:15 Joshua should fight Usyk first because he doesn't have the power to be a threat

snake33 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2020, 23:42 Usyk should win this fight but will hit a wall soon after that.
He might get WBO which shows how convoluted the titles are.
Great boxer but too small and old to make a dent at the top.

snake33 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2019, 19:07 Yes, stay lean. And take the Usyk fight. It will be an easy win.

snake33 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 13:04 Usyk might end up with some irrelevant WBOish belt but he will never crack the top tier.
He should drop down to the new super cruiserweight division

sounds like you were underrating usyk as much as these usyk lovers overrate him

If Fury fights Usyk..........................I want Jay Nady as the ref for that fight.......nobody else.

When was Wilder ever called a bum by anyone with an IQ higher than zero?

. Everybody with a functioning brain cell knows we did not see the best version of Tyson Fury this passed weekend.

However - that may be the best version we see of him from now on.

He is recognised universally as the top man of the division; but his lifestyle and attitude does not instill confidence he can get back into that shape he was for Wilder2

Well no one (at least no one with a sane head) is calling Fury the GOAT, but he definitely has a legitimate claim as the best of his era.
If he secures a unification with Usyk and beats him, then he has certainly cemented that status.
If AJ pulls off a miracle and defeats Usyk in the rematch, Fury will surely beat him. Probably hand him a humiliating defeat too.

The only unknown is Usyk at this point, and that is because he did not have too many HW fights. But that he beat AJ quite comfortably does imply he is at an elite level.

There’s no denying that some of the hype and praised that’s been bestowed upon Fury has become excessive.

And I feel the reasons for this is because he not only defeated an American, but a fighter that’s achieved a similar amount of WBC world title fight success as all-time-greats, such as Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis & Klitschko.

But as statistically remarkable as Wilder’s title reign was, we shouldn't forget the fact he ducked likes of Joshua, Povetkin and Whyte, there was a distinct lack of mandatory defences performed, he needlessly engaged in rematches nobody wanted (Stiverne & Ortiz), he almost exclusively fought fellow PBC stablemates and his decision to cherry-pick an out-of-condition rusty big-name opponent (Tyson Fury) completely backfired, resulting in Deontay suffering three losses.

And whilst I’m absolutely 100% convinced (and always have been) about Fury’s victory over Klitschko being far more impressive than AJ’s, there’s no denying in my mind that Tyson defeated a past-his-prime mentally “distracted” version of Dr Steelhammer.

If we were to measure “greatness” in the context of “historical contribution to the sport of boxing” (spectacular wins, resume achievements, overcoming adversity, popularity, participating in big events etc.), then Tyson Fury is already a dead-cert first-ballot Hall-of-Famer.

However, from purely a sporting perspective, his resume is relatively weak (in relation to the amount of praise he’s currently receiving). Fury needs to do much more.

I feel that Fury probably beats Usyk, Joshua and Whyte. But that doesn’t mean he automatically deserves to receive an honorary rite of passage to greatness based on opinion/expectation.

It’s not good enough for Fury to simply “talk-the-talk”, he needs to actually face the winners of Usyk-Joshua and Whyte-Wallin in order to “walk-the-walk!”

Only then should he consider hanging up his gloves and walk away from the sport having assured his place in the IBHoF.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 10:13 There’s no denying that some of the hype and praised that’s been bestowed upon Fury has become excessive.

And I feel the reasons for this is because he not only defeated an American, but a fighter that’s achieved a similar amount of WBC world title fight success as all-time-greats, such as Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis & Klitschko.

But as statistically remarkable as Wilder’s title reign was, we shouldn't forget the fact he ducked likes of Joshua, Povetkin and Whyte, there was a distinct lack of mandatory defences performed, he needlessly engaged in rematches nobody wanted (Stiverne & Ortiz), he almost exclusively fought fellow PBC stablemates and his decision to cherry-pick an out-of-condition rusty big-name opponent (Tyson Fury) completely backfired, resulting in Deontay suffering three losses.

And whilst I’m absolutely 100% convinced (and always have been) about Fury’s victory over Klitschko being far more impressive than AJ’s, there’s no denying in my mind that Tyson defeated a past-his-prime mentally “distracted” version of Dr Steelhammer.

If we were to measure “greatness” in the context of “historical contribution to the sport of boxing” (spectacular wins, resume achievements, overcoming adversity, popularity, participating in big events etc.), then Tyson Fury is already a dead-cert first-ballot Hall-of-Famer.

However, from purely a sporting perspective, his resume is relatively weak (in relation to the amount of praise he’s currently receiving). Fury needs to do much more.

I feel that Fury probably beats Usyk, Joshua and Whyte. But that doesn’t mean he automatically deserves to receive an honorary rite of passage to greatness based on opinion/expectation.

It’s not good enough for Fury to simply “talk-the-talk”, he needs to actually face the winners of Usyk-Joshua and Whyte-Wallin in order to “walk-the-walk!”

Only then should he consider hanging up his gloves and walk away from the sport having assured his place in the IBHoF.

I share that view and that's the problem with most boxers today because, I expect, they have a fear of failure, not getting beat up, but failing to achieve what they've convinced themselves their whole life that they are capable of doing. They'd rather say they are the best than prove it. Nobody is going to dispute that you're the best if you beat everyone else, but if you don't, there will always be doubters.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 09:11

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 08:27 fury's veryy good, the #1, but to be the absolute man, da king of da division, he needs to beat the aj-usyk 2 winner

also, a bit of depth vs good contenders would help, guys often lose to ones that weren't fully expected

otto wallin gave him a tougher fight than wlad did

Fury will very likely engage in only two more bouts, against Whyte and the winner of Joshua-Usyk II, before hanging up his gloves for good.

I get the feeling he isn’t one of those guys that loves the sport to the point he’ll keep making unwanted comebacks.

There’s more to his inactivity than mental health issues.

I worry about Fury’s post career antics. My hope is that he’s able to capitalize on his persona and fanfare calling fights ringside perhaps. But Fury is one boxer that I worry about once that last main event ring light goes out. There’s absolutely no way to redeem that successful glow that he’s been under since his latest comeback. There’s nothing that can bring him back those feelings of greatness in the common world that we live in. Will he then start taking these dumb fights for a buck like Holyfield or RJJR?

Fury must understand that he now has the world of Boxing by the short & curlies. He’s healthy after a tough fight so there’s no reason to leave this kind of money on the table. I’d say 5-6 more fights, perhaps 2 a year or 1 a year. Clean up the chips on the table and then balloon up to 450 like you do and make us laugh ringside for another 20-30 years.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 12:01 I worry about Fury’s post career antics. My hope is that he’s able to capitalize on his persona and fanfare calling fights ringside perhaps. But Fury is one boxer that I worry about once that last main event ring light goes out. There’s absolutely no way to redeem that successful glow that he’s been under since his latest comeback. There’s nothing that can bring him back those feelings of greatness in the common world that we live in. Will he then start taking these dumb fights for a buck like Holyfield or RJJR?

Fury must understand that he now has the world of Boxing by the short & curlies. He’s healthy after a tough fight so there’s no reason to leave this kind of money on the table. I’d say 5-6 more fights, perhaps 2 a year or 1 a year. Clean up the chips on the table and then balloon up to 450 like you do and make us laugh ringside for another 20-30 years.

I agree, he loves the spotlight and has the persona to get some attention. I could see him going down all three of the following routes: the Paul Gascoigne route which he has done before, the showbiz route where he gets wheeled out for I'm a celebrity and comic relief type events like David Haye or go into the punditry/management side of things.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 14:32

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 14:30 then why the hell bring up usyk's much less serious cut if you don't want people talking about fury's slit open face

I only brought it up because Joshua did not really let his hands go at all and still Usyk ended up cut up--- so can you imagine if Joshua let his hands go? That is the only point I am making.

Yes, I can imagine what will happen. AJ will get Ruized.

Maybe, only because Joshua does not recover fast and his cardiovascular strength is not so good--- but Usyk is only a man and he can be hurt. I think Joshua can do much better next time around but whether he succeeds or not is unclear. He's certainly not afraid of Usyk otherwise he wouldn't have taken the rematch automatically.

Make no mistake it's a hell of a mountain to climb but I'm not so sure the Ukrainian can handle non-stop pressure; maybe Joshua isn't the man to pull off non-stop pressure, but maybe Fury can.

However I have a feeling that Fury might do what he did against Klitschko and say, "Okay everybody says nobody can outbox Usyk. I'm going to show that I can still box somebody's ears off." Nobody will expect it, neither will Usyk.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 18:29

snake33 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 14:44

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 13:58

remember when you told everyone how aj would beat usyk easy, that he wouldnt make a dent at hw and was no threat to josh, and that he should fight at briderweight instead

do you underrated usyk more than those other dudes overrate him?

I didn't say those things.
Usyk is not an elite heavyweight. He does not have HW power. He beat Joshua because Joshua did not fight back.
Ask Joshua what's wrong with him. If Usyk had fought the Joshua who fought Whyte even it would have been a much different fight. Usyk was landing clean on Joshua late in the fight couldn't knock him out. Lacks the ability.
That does not logically translate to Usyk beating Fury. Fury takes up a lot of room and would and could bum rush him all night. Usyk was great at lower weights but he is far from unbeatable at HW. Had Joshua not fell apart against Ruiz he would have done much better against Usyk. Joshua lost much more than Usyk won.

oh, you didnt

snake33 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2020, 12:55 Usyk is not going to going to beat Joshua or Fury, period.

snake33 wrote: ↑12 Dec 2020, 22:15 Joshua should fight Usyk first because he doesn't have the power to be a threat

snake33 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2020, 23:42 Usyk should win this fight but will hit a wall soon after that.
He might get WBO which shows how convoluted the titles are.
Great boxer but too small and old to make a dent at the top.

snake33 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2019, 19:07 Yes, stay lean. And take the Usyk fight. It will be an easy win.

snake33 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 13:04 Usyk might end up with some irrelevant WBOish belt but he will never crack the top tier.
He should drop down to the new super cruiserweight division

sounds like you were underrating usyk as much as these usyk lovers overrate him

LOL - My comments were based on a pre-Ruiz Joshua. A Joshua who actually throws punches. Fights back.
Joshua lost that fight waaaaay more than Usyk won it. He still had NO POWER. He hit Joshua a lot and AJ got a fragile chin.
Usyk is very much over rated. And while Fury is no GOAT, he is the best fighter, right now, of this era.
Perhaps Fury might go on coke binge and Usyk could dance around and get a decision in his lethargy
but it ain't bloody likely.

i guess when it came to the aj fight, the dudes who overrated usyk got it right though, while we cats picking aj , some even saying it would be an easy win and continually going on about usyk being no threat, got it wrong

snake33 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 14:24

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 18:29

snake33 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 14:44

I didn't say those things.
Usyk is not an elite heavyweight. He does not have HW power. He beat Joshua because Joshua did not fight back.
Ask Joshua what's wrong with him. If Usyk had fought the Joshua who fought Whyte even it would have been a much different fight. Usyk was landing clean on Joshua late in the fight couldn't knock him out. Lacks the ability.
That does not logically translate to Usyk beating Fury. Fury takes up a lot of room and would and could bum rush him all night. Usyk was great at lower weights but he is far from unbeatable at HW. Had Joshua not fell apart against Ruiz he would have done much better against Usyk. Joshua lost much more than Usyk won.

oh, you didnt

snake33 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2020, 12:55 Usyk is not going to going to beat Joshua or Fury, period.

snake33 wrote: ↑12 Dec 2020, 22:15 Joshua should fight Usyk first because he doesn't have the power to be a threat

snake33 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2020, 23:42 Usyk should win this fight but will hit a wall soon after that.
He might get WBO which shows how convoluted the titles are.
Great boxer but too small and old to make a dent at the top.

snake33 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2019, 19:07 Yes, stay lean. And take the Usyk fight. It will be an easy win.

snake33 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 13:04 Usyk might end up with some irrelevant WBOish belt but he will never crack the top tier.
He should drop down to the new super cruiserweight division

sounds like you were underrating usyk as much as these usyk lovers overrate him

LOL - My comments were based on a pre-Ruiz Joshua. A Joshua who actually throws punches. Fights back.
Joshua lost that fight waaaaay more than Usyk won it. He still had NO POWER. He hit Joshua a lot and AJ got a fragile chin.
Usyk is very much over rated. And while Fury is no GOAT, he is the best fighter, right now, of this era.
Perhaps Fury might go on coke binge and Usyk could dance around and get a decision in his lethargy
but it ain't bloody likely.

The one thing us AJ pickers didn't expect was for AJ to make the schoolboy error of trying to outbox a world class boxer--- we all fully expected for him to throw bombs, etc. He didn't do that. Maybe he will the second time around.

Regardless, even if Joshua beats Usyk in the return fight he's still not beating Tyson Fury. Even if Usyk defeats Joshua again, he's still not the best heavyweight in the world because Joshua is a flawed heavyweight.

There is no overrating him. He’s no 1 for as long as he wants.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 14:55 The one thing us AJ pickers didn't expect was for AJ to make the schoolboy error of trying to outbox a world class boxer--- we all fully expected for him to throw bombs, etc. He didn't do that. Maybe he will the second time around.

Regardless, even if Joshua beats Usyk in the return fight he's still not beating Tyson Fury. Even if Usyk defeats Joshua again, he's still not the best heavyweight in the world because Joshua is a flawed heavyweight.

For sure, AJ fought the wrong tactical battle, but let's not gloss over that a masterful skilled boxer like Usyk makes you fight his fight. AJ's possibly learnt from that, we can only find out in a rematch and, if AJ's psychological as well as tactical approach is correct, we might learn a bit more about Usyk.

As for your rating system....does getting knocked on your ass 4 times by a very flawed heavyweight provide a higher ranking than completely outboxing a flawed heavyweight?

The perception of the 3rd fight taking place after scuppering the Fury v Joshua fight was that it was pointless, such was the dominance of Fury in the 2nd fight.
As a spectacle, the 3rd fight was amazing, it had everything you'd want to see in a hw title fight and is rightly receiving universal plaudits. However, it was such a cliffhanger not because of the skills on view, but rather the sloppiness and lack of skills. Wilder's dedicated new training regime and tactics resulted in 2 rounds of jabbing to the body before reverting to type, whereas Fury carried on from where he left off in the 2nd fight, bulling forward, throwing clubbing rights, sapping Wilder's strength in clinches with headlocks and leaning on.
Wilder gets bludgeoned to the deck, his spindly legs giving way after a few not so clean punches. Then Fury gets sloppy, decked twice, shows his already well known powers of recovery, and then clubbing, mauling and strength sapping resumes until a completey knackered Wilder is finally flattened.

The knockdowns and the intesity made it special viewing, but when you compare the all round skills on display to the masterful performance of boxing that Usyk put on a couple of weeks prior, he showed what proper boxing's all about. Perhaps a bit boring compared to this weekend's action, but he Usyk certainly enhanced his reputation more than either of Fury or Wilder to the purist. Wilder perhaps showed us something new, that he has the heart to get his ass whupped until he can go on no more, but then so did Jeff Lacy.

I'd certainly have Fury as #1, and, given his studious approach and knowledge of the game, he certainly wouldn't make the same mistakes that AJ made when facing Usyk. I would favour him slightly over Usyk, mainly due to his size and not being scared to hit and get hit back, but wouldn't be surprised if Usyk managed to nick it.
However, Fury's at #1 based on beating a pretty basic boxer in Wilder who had a jab and dynamite right hand, and he struggled more in the 3rd fight than he did in the 2nd fight. His bulldozer approach worked well against Wilder, but might not do so against others, and I cannot but help think that the days of him including the weight loss regime in his training to return to a more stylistic jabbing and moving Fury is a thing of the past

exactly, the idea that beating wilder for a 2nd time somehow basically means fury has cleared out the division and gets proxy wins over usyk is weird, totally different opponent than wilder. fury bois love to puff up wilder after the fact dont they, and they have a bizarre urge for fury to retire instead of continuing to prove himself and make himself undisputed king. a bit nervous are they?

fury has beaten 2 world class heavyweights in his entire career, very good wins but he has more he can prove for sure. he probably beats usyk, joshua, etc......but he needs to actually do it to get the credit


he should've made easy easy work of otto wallin on paper too, instead he got his face split open and hurt. its not so simple as 'he beat this guy, so he beats everyone else'

Fury getting UP four times, to win, is far and away greater than getting knocked down. It's very difficult to get amped up to fight somebody you have already beaten twice regardless of what the record books want to say--- and let's be honest that was not the best version of Fury we have ever seen, while that may be the best version of Wilder we have ever seen.

I'm reminded of arguments people had in the past against Floyd Patterson, commenting how many times he was knocked down--- but they never considered how many times he got back up to win. In the end, getting up to win trump's everything else.

Almost 2 years inactivity, not really taking the fight all that seriously, etc--- and still knocking out a man who very well could beat everyone else in the division--- I think easily makes Fury the top heavyweight in the world.

I sure can't see Anthony Joshua letting himself go physically and digging down deep to come back and win fights. I can't see Anthony Joshua taking a brutal blasting round after round and still fighting back hard, like Wilder. That loss to Ruiz, and now Usyk, has really messed with his psyche.

As for Usyk--- he certainly is going to be the toughest challenge out there simply because unlike most heavyweights he is from that old school cloth and mentality of perpetually staying in great shape, combined with great skills and speed.

That being said, I think many people are assuming that Fury from here on out is going to stay 270+ and be a wrecking machine--- forgetting that this man actually is difficult to hit when he wants to box. For a man like Usyk I would not be surprised to see Fury come in the high 250s-low 260s, and be more bouncy.

And if he wasn't able to get off shots like he wanted as a boxer he would just make it into a brawl, and Fury can brawl for 12 whole rounds if he needs to. I do believe that he will beat the Ukrainian if and when they ever fight, but--- it seems no matter who Fury beats or how impressively, there's always the usual suspects saying it's not enough.

All these people saying that Usyk is the best heavyweight in the world will soon change the script, "Fury is just too big and too strong," etc if Fury beats him. Always some sort of undermining statement to diminish the victory one way or another.

As for Wilder--- I've always said he was of the style of Max Baer. It was because of his recklessness and hard hitting punches that made him the biggest threat to Tyson Fury. I don't like the man one bit but he has demonstrated a great chin and willingness to fight harder in defeat--- the same cannot be said of Anthony Joshua so I rate him higher than the pretty boy bodybuilder with no chin.

most people think fury beats usyk, that's not the point, youre fixated on the wrong thing and even then you're misrepresenting what most ppl are saying. they just want him to go beyond continually facing wilder and to fight the other top guys. whats so unreasonable about that?

he has beaten 2 world class heavys in his entire career, very good wins, but of course he could do more

There's nothing wrong with having expectations, or desiring more fights out of somebody--- what is wrong is being completely dismissive of somebody simply because they didn't have enough fights to their liking.

People are talking up Usyk as highly as they are Fury strictly on the basis of his performance against Joshua--- 3 fights at heavyweight, 2 against glorified journeymen, and suddenly he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

And yet the criticism against Fury is the same lame script: "Oh poopoo he's only beaten Klitschko and Wilder," while ignoring the fact Fury never got out of first gear and made Chisora's team throw in the towel, or how he won every second of every round against Kevin Johnson, or how he kayoed Cunningham, etc.

A man denied from competing in the Olympics ended up beating a bronze and gold medalist, and still undefeated after 13+ years as a professional. Far as I'm concerned he's already proved himself to be the top heavyweight in the world, and has for quite some time, but I guess if he doesn't have a long title reign like Larry Holmes or Wladimir Klitschko it doesn't count.

But keep crapping on him.

When he retires undefeated after beating every single person everybody says he can't beat there will come a day when you will say, "I really miss Tyson Fury," because all that will be left is a bunch of flawed heavyweights with absolutely zero personality who can't speak English.

people just want him to take on the other top guys, for there to be an undisputed fight and for him to prove in the ring that he's cleaned it out and is defo the king, i don't see why that riles you up so much and most of the people you argue with seem to be saying tht he probably beats usyk, but you continually misrepresent their point

and ya, he's beaten only 2 world class heavyweights in his entire career, very good wins, but hardly much depth at all to his career. did you really just mention kevin johnson lol

he wasnt 'denied ' an olympic spot btw, unless by that you just mean he failed to get one. he lost in the aba quarterfinals and hence didnt get on the national team to be able to attempt to qualify. he was never even close to the olympics

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑15 Oct 2021, 15:48 most people think fury beats usyk, that's not the point, youre fixated on the wrong thing and even then you're misrepresenting what most ppl are saying. they just want him to go beyond continually facing wilder and to fight the other top guys. whats so unreasonable about that?

he has beaten 2 world class heavys in his entire career, very good wins, but of course he could do more

Ack, it clearly went way over his head. Pretty pointless really.