BoxRec

I used to train quite often at champs camp in the evening and shamefully it later transpired that the ex pro running the session was trousering most of the subs himself.

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 02:19 Yes that's my understanding. As said - both gyms in my town are in council owned portacabin type buildings.
All equipment was from council grants etc.

I have worked for 4 local authorities here in Wales (Newport/Torfaen/Caerphilly/RCT) and 1 in England (Wakefield) and never came across them paying for mentors. That has really surprised me.

the gym I know well has a similar kind of deal to what Mickey describes, the council/social services or whoever hire the gym for a fee and also then pay the coaches per session for the instruction they provide (not a salary). Maybe half of it is boxing or sport/fitness related instruction, the other half is just basically trying to socialise the kids and teach them respect/etc (the gym owner is an old school west indian guy, a proper Drill Sergeant type with them so every time they overstep the line he gets them back to repeat again the meaning of 'respect' and obeying rules and so on)

someone mentioned the YO's having their own adults with them, in this particular case the social workers will attend but the coaches take the lead once they get into the gym. basically the social workers are knackered and debilitated by the fact they can't handle the kids, and they know the kids won't give the same sort of sh1t to the boxing and kickboxing coaches who take them (who they still give sh1t to, just less of it and less often)

The kids who get cheeky are soon found out. Even by the other kids. The coaches really don't operate like school teachers, but you're right, the kids have an awful lot more respect for them.

Most local authorities I have worked for (social worker here) have various contracts with leisure centres and skills centres for the YOS, PRU and SEN kids to attend; but as said - aside from arranging for kids to attend various clubs such as boxing/football/etc - I have never worked in one that has specifically paid boxing coaches (or anybody else for that matter) to be mentors.

Also gyms need to jump through a few hoops health and safety wise to get the council contracts

Coco wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 10:51 Also gyms need to jump through a few hoops health and safety wise to get the council contracts

The Off the Hook charity mentioned by Mickey appears a very well organised operation; offering opportunities to gain qualifications such as GCSE`s ... not something your typical ABC would be equipped or qualified to provide. I`m sure their funding is based more on the provision of providing qualifications than the provision of boxing coach mentors.

But I think its cleared up my original question - and original assumption, that boxing gyms are money pits; that are dependent on hand outs, or alternative business plans to survive.

Thanks all.

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 14:36

Coco wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 10:51 Also gyms need to jump through a few hoops health and safety wise to get the council contracts

The Off the Hook charity mentioned by Mickey appears a very well organised operation; offering opportunities to gain qualifications such as GCSE`s ... not something your typical ABC would be equipped or qualified to provide. I`m sure their funding is based more on the provision of providing qualifications than the provision of boxing coach mentors.

But I think its cleared up my original question - and original assumption, that boxing gyms are money pits; that are dependent on hand outs, or alternative business plans to survive.

Thanks all.

I can assure you the main men there are aba coaches. There base here is in a gym. It has a few rooms turned into offices and a couple of people involved in that but the people who spend all day with the kids are boxing trainers.

I know a small gym that does well. Pros, pts, white collar, running shows, sponsored. They work hard, though.

:

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 14:36

Coco wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 10:51 Also gyms need to jump through a few hoops health and safety wise to get the council contracts

The Off the Hook charity mentioned by Mickey appears a very well organised operation; offering opportunities to gain qualifications such as GCSE`s ... not something your typical ABC would be equipped or qualified to provide. I`m sure their funding is based more on the provision of providing qualifications than the provision of boxing coach mentors.

But I think its cleared up my original question - and original assumption, that boxing gyms are money pits; that are dependent on hand outs, or alternative business plans to survive.

Thanks all.

They don’t have to offer qualifications as high faluting as GCSE’s, or any qualifications at all, necessarily.

The gym I know literally get paid for teaching kids not to be such little sh1ts. That’s the only way I can put it. Socialisation classes. The gym owner has been going into schools and getting paid for sessions with their problem kids for well over 10 years. He originally went in doing kind of kickboxing but not exactly classes, as supplementary to or part of their PE, but they noticed he had a way with the bad kids and got a response from them so they started paying him for mentoring as well.

As an individual he made 10-15k-odd a year from that source alone for years. I think the gyms probably doing a decent bit more than that with the gym hire added on to the mentoring

And that money has always kept the gym afloat one way or another, never survive without it.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 16:30 :

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 14:36

Coco wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 10:51 Also gyms need to jump through a few hoops health and safety wise to get the council contracts

The Off the Hook charity mentioned by Mickey appears a very well organised operation; offering opportunities to gain qualifications such as GCSE`s ... not something your typical ABC would be equipped or qualified to provide. I`m sure their funding is based more on the provision of providing qualifications than the provision of boxing coach mentors.

But I think its cleared up my original question - and original assumption, that boxing gyms are money pits; that are dependent on hand outs, or alternative business plans to survive.

Thanks all.

They don’t have to offer qualifications as high faluting as GCSE’s, or any qualifications at all, necessarily.

The gym I know literally get paid for teaching kids not to be such little sh1ts. That’s the only way I can put it. Socialisation classes. The gym owner has been going into schools and getting paid for sessions with their problem kids for well over 10 years. He originally went in doing kind of kickboxing but not exactly classes, as supplementary to or part of their PE, but they noticed he had a way with the bad kids and got a response from them so they started paying him for mentoring as well.

As an individual he made 10-15k-odd a year from that source alone for years. I think the gyms probably doing a decent bit more than that with the gym hire added on to the mentoring

I'd be interested in knowing the gym you mention. If you could give me the contact details that would be very helpful.

I'll try to post a more in depth opinion on this subject but here's a couple of things to consider.

England Boxing claim just 21,000 members, including coaches, officials and boxers, both male and female aged 10 to 40.

Sport England statistics state that 780,000 people participate in boxing on a regular basis. You do the maths.
The money in boxing comes from keep fitters waving their hands at pads without ever throwing a punch in earnest or having one white collar bout in the name of charity

A commercial gym setting up an amateur club may be able to get rates relief and tap into government funding.

It's the funding for mentoring I am surprised by here.
As said - I have previously worked in YOS, and have experience with PRU and SEN both in England and Wales.
I am aware of LAs paying for kids to attend skill type centres that provide some sort of qualifications such as GCSE as York Boxing's Off the Hook charity appears to be, or other centres that offer nothing more than a catering certificate or CSCS card; there is a pretty good budget for education.
And of course gym prescriptions are available to both kids and adults.

It's the paid mentoring side of things I surprised by. Youth workers would be the only ones specifically employed to do the things mentioned above .. or volunteer mentors in the first instance typically because of costs (not that youth workers earn much more than minimum wage unfortunately).

If I reading some comments correct. Getting school teacher type salary (£30k) to do nothing more than mentor and teach boxing to naughty kids is not something I have come across or even heard about.

There's loads at it - plenty of money to be had from the public education sector

It used to be just putting on classes for excluded kids, but now gyms are setting their own education academies

Havee a Google at the Smith Brothers academy where you can get a BTEC in sport, or the Joe Gallagher academy where you can get a "Diploma in sporting excellence"

Gyms are often kept afloat by boxercise and white collar, no money in boxing or boxers.

bripez wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 14:04 There's loads at it - plenty of money to be had from the public education sector

It used to be just putting on classes for excluded kids, but now gyms are setting their own education academies

Havee a Google at the Smith Brothers academy where you can get a BTEC in sport, or the Joe Gallagher academy where you can get a "Diploma in sporting excellence"

Has Joe Gallagher got his own gym these days?

Coco wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 17:12

bripez wrote: ↑26 Oct 2021, 14:04 There's loads at it - plenty of money to be had from the public education sector

It used to be just putting on classes for excluded kids, but now gyms are setting their own education academies

Havee a Google at the Smith Brothers academy where you can get a BTEC in sport, or the Joe Gallagher academy where you can get a "Diploma in sporting excellence"

Has Joe Gallagher got his own gym these days?

I’m sure he’s still using Khan’s.

What even happened to his own gym?

think Gallagher was at Kerry Kayes Betta Bodies gym before going to Khan's and before that I think he rented a space above a pub in Altrincham, when he moved out that became a Muay Thai gym

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 09:51 Most local authorities I have worked for (social worker here) have various contracts with leisure centres and skills centres for the YOS, PRU and SEN kids to attend; but as said - aside from arranging for kids to attend various clubs such as boxing/football/etc - I have never worked in one that has specifically paid boxing coaches (or anybody else for that matter) to be mentors.

This is my job.
I work day to day with kids from schools. We provide boxing, we teach them to cook, they clean the gym and we take them fishing. We have just added an allotment too.
We have pro’s in, women’s classes, and classes for people in recovery. We also have amateur classes, run pt’s, and run a satellite club for inspire youth zone in Chorley

DAVE2005 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 17:42

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 09:51 Most local authorities I have worked for (social worker here) have various contracts with leisure centres and skills centres for the YOS, PRU and SEN kids to attend; but as said - aside from arranging for kids to attend various clubs such as boxing/football/etc - I have never worked in one that has specifically paid boxing coaches (or anybody else for that matter) to be mentors.

This is my job.
I work day to day with kids from schools. We provide boxing, we teach them to cook, they clean the gym and we take them fishing. We have just added an allotment too.
We have pro’s in, women’s classes, and classes for people in recovery. We also have amateur classes, run pt’s, and run a satellite club for inspire youth zone in Chorley

maybe after the 4th person saying it happens he’ll believe it

cant say i know about the financial ins ans outs but during the covid they should have of been bailed out the sport that gets discipline and respect for everyone young and old the real leveler and humbler for people ignored , disgrace the goverment are then they bang on about tennis no disrespect to girl she done great but that is an elitists sport has no carry on to local communities were boxing does number 1

brilo33 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 19:20 cant say i know about the financial ins ans outs but during the covid they should have of been bailed out the sport that gets discipline and respect for everyone young and old the real leveler and humbler for people ignored , disgrace the goverment are then they bang on about tennis no disrespect to girl she done great but that is an elitists sport has no carry on to local communities were boxing does number 1

To be fair to tennis, it's not elitist. We were given tennis lessons at school and everyone had a racket and ball lying about at home, and I'm from a long way from an elitist area. Our local park has courts. Free.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 19:50

brilo33 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 19:20 cant say i know about the financial ins ans outs but during the covid they should have of been bailed out the sport that gets discipline and respect for everyone young and old the real leveler and humbler for people ignored , disgrace the goverment are then they bang on about tennis no disrespect to girl she done great but that is an elitists sport has no carry on to local communities were boxing does number 1

To be fair to tennis, it's not elitist. We were given tennis lessons at school and everyone had a racket and ball lying about at home, and I'm from a long way from an elitist area. Our local park has courts. Free.

mickey it aint that i went a london school we had one tennis lesson, it is the competions you have to enter are all over the world at a young age , image u going home at 13 saying mum pack a bag ive got a tourney in miami tuesday

Yes, I never knew anyone play in a league or anything. Just in the street.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 19:54 Yes, I never knew anyone play in a league or anything. Just in the street.

of course mate who does , but they do