Why is Alen Babic not included in the heavyweight ratings on BoxRec?

[candyslim]

Umm, no I'm not, but Tiny might be.
I agree with your post. But I hate yet another division and more flippin belts.
Like Tiny, I'd love to bury my head and ignore Badgerweight (I've trained my phone to predict that already) all together.

It wasn't Tiny complimenting BoxRec on their good work.

I don't think they get enough compliments. Even if I disagreed with the decision, I would respect someone, anyone, having the balls to stand up for anything in this cancel backbone woketastic world.

Oh there is much to admire about BoxRec and many reasons to complement them, but i'll refrain from giving them a pat on the back for having the moral courage, the backbone, and the balls to stand up and declare that the world is flat or anything else I consider to make no sense at all.

[candyslim]

It’s not such a big issue, considering Babic hasn’t beaten anyone noteworthy.

As entertaining as he might be, his resume is complete utter garbage.

The question was asked about Babic but that is incidental. It's not about the boxer it's the principle.

To be honest, I don’t really pay much attention to BoxRec’s ratings nowadays, due to statistical anomalies produced by their algorithm.

For instance:

• Jared Anderson is currently rated 58th by BoxRec’s heavyweight ratings.

• BoxRec recently rated Gervonta Davis above Josh Taylor at junior welterweight.

• Callum Smith is currently rated 9th in BoxRec's pound-for-pound ratings.

• BoxRec once rated Luis Nery as being sixth on their pound-for-pound ratings.

• BoxRec once rated Jeff Horn amongst the pound-for-pound elite (they ranked him in 9th place).

• Chris Eubank Jr. is currently rated above Vasyl Lomachenko in the BoxRec pound-for-pound ratings.

• Billy Joe Saunders was once rated 4th according to BoxRec's 168lb rankings, before he'd even fought in that weight class.

• Demetrius Andrade was recently rated 11th on BoxRec’s pound-for-pound list.

• Jermall Charlo was recently rated 6th on BoxRec’s pound-for-pound list.

• On the 29th June 2021, BoxRec rated a two-fight novice, David Mercardo as the third best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet!

Let's pretend Rivas was a very active and successful fighter. Would you consider it sensible to deny him a rating ... anywhere?

In terms of Oscar Rivas, during a timeframe spanning almost three years, he’s been beaten by Dillian Whyte and has himself subsequently beaten two cruiserweights (i.e. opponents only weighing 203lbs).

The Colombian hasn’t beaten a legitimate heavyweight for almost three years. And currently campaigns as a bridgerweight.

And Alen Babic wants to face Oscar Rivas for a title that isn't recognised by BoxRec.

Are you standing for office EO.? That was a real politician's answer to my question.

[Enlightened-One]

The question was asked about Babic but that is incidental. It's not about the boxer it's the principle.

To be honest, I don’t really pay much attention to BoxRec’s ratings nowadays, due to statistical anomalies produced by their algorithm.

For instance:

• Jared Anderson is currently rated 58th by BoxRec’s heavyweight ratings.

• BoxRec recently rated Gervonta Davis above Josh Taylor at junior welterweight.

• Callum Smith is currently rated 9th in BoxRec's pound-for-pound ratings.

• BoxRec once rated Luis Nery as being sixth on their pound-for-pound ratings.

• BoxRec once rated Jeff Horn amongst the pound-for-pound elite (they ranked him in 9th place).

• Chris Eubank Jr. is currently rated above Vasyl Lomachenko in the BoxRec pound-for-pound ratings.

• Billy Joe Saunders was once rated 4th according to BoxRec's 168lb rankings, before he'd even fought in that weight class.

• Demetrius Andrade was recently rated 11th on BoxRec’s pound-for-pound list.

• Jermall Charlo was recently rated 6th on BoxRec’s pound-for-pound list.

• On the 29th June 2021, BoxRec rated a two-fight novice, David Mercardo as the third best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet!

Let's pretend Rivas was a very active and successful fighter. Would you consider it sensible to deny him a rating ... anywhere?

In terms of Oscar Rivas, during a timeframe spanning almost three years, he’s been beaten by Dillian Whyte and has himself subsequently beaten two cruiserweights (i.e. opponents only weighing 203lbs).

The Colombian hasn’t beaten a legitimate heavyweight for almost three years. And currently campaigns as a bridgerweight.

And Alen Babic wants to face Oscar Rivas for a title that isn't recognised by BoxRec.

Are you standing for office EO.? That was a real politician's answer to my question.

Not really.

Babic’s resume is poor and doesn’t deserve a decent rating at heavyweight.


And Babic is looking to challenge for a world title in a weight class that BoxRec doesn’t recognise.

Finally, BoxRec’s rankings contain plenty of bizarrely weird anomalies that undermine its credibility/usefulness.

[Tony1244]

Keep up the good work boxrec!
We don't want no stinkin badgerweight

[tiny_acres]

I will say this in a small defense of Bridgerweight. I was around as a fan when cruiserweight first emerged and no one wanted the division except a handful of fighters who wanted to fight there.
40 years later we can honestly say we have had some great cruiserweight fights.
The first Bridgerweight championship fight was a very fun fight for the fans. I am just hoping that we can see some competitive exciting fights between similar sized fighters.

But I will stress this again so not to get bashed. I think anything above 200 is heavyweight.
And any other WORLD titles and I use that term loosely should be ignored.
Belts are a dime a dozen in all weight divisions

[candyslim]

To be honest, I don’t really pay much attention to BoxRec’s ratings nowadays, due to statistical anomalies produced by their algorithm.

For instance:

• Jared Anderson is currently rated 58th by BoxRec’s heavyweight ratings.

• BoxRec recently rated Gervonta Davis above Josh Taylor at junior welterweight.

• Callum Smith is currently rated 9th in BoxRec's pound-for-pound ratings.

• BoxRec once rated Luis Nery as being sixth on their pound-for-pound ratings.

• BoxRec once rated Jeff Horn amongst the pound-for-pound elite (they ranked him in 9th place).

• Chris Eubank Jr. is currently rated above Vasyl Lomachenko in the BoxRec pound-for-pound ratings.

• Billy Joe Saunders was once rated 4th according to BoxRec's 168lb rankings, before he'd even fought in that weight class.

• Demetrius Andrade was recently rated 11th on BoxRec’s pound-for-pound list.

• Jermall Charlo was recently rated 6th on BoxRec’s pound-for-pound list.

• On the 29th June 2021, BoxRec rated a two-fight novice, David Mercardo as the third best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet!


In terms of Oscar Rivas, during a timeframe spanning almost three years, he’s been beaten by Dillian Whyte and has himself subsequently beaten two cruiserweights (i.e. opponents only weighing 203lbs).

The Colombian hasn’t beaten a legitimate heavyweight for almost three years. And currently campaigns as a bridgerweight.

And Alen Babic wants to face Oscar Rivas for a title that isn't recognised by BoxRec.

Are you standing for office EO.? That was a real politician's answer to my question.

Not really.

Babic’s resume is poor and doesn’t deserve a decent rating at heavyweight.


And Babic is looking to challenge for a world title in a weight class that BoxRec doesn’t recognise.

Finally, BoxRec’s rankings contain plenty of bizarrely weird anomalies that undermine its credibility/usefulness.

You're getting hung up on the evaluation of individuals. it's not about the relative abilities of a couple of fighters eligible to fight at Bridgerweight, the question i was asking you was whether it makes any kind of sense to deny a good Heavyweight (not Babic and not necessarily Rivas) a ranking in the Heavyweight division (i.e. a ranking full stop) on the grounds that they have fought, or expressed an interest in fighting, in a division you do not recognize?

Alternatively do you simply say "We don't recognize Badgerweight so we'll continue to rate them at Heavyweight like we did before, because they have fought at Heavyweight and remain free to do so again, whether or not they have fought at, or expressed an interest in fighting at, Badgerweight" ?

[KiwiRider]

Are you standing for office EO.? That was a real politician's answer to my question.

Not really.

Babic’s resume is poor and doesn’t deserve a decent rating at heavyweight.


And Babic is looking to challenge for a world title in a weight class that BoxRec doesn’t recognise.

Finally, BoxRec’s rankings contain plenty of bizarrely weird anomalies that undermine its credibility/usefulness.

You're getting hung up on the evaluation of individuals. it's not about the relative abilities of a couple of fighters eligible to fight at Bridgerweight, the question i was asking you was whether it makes any kind of sense to deny a good Heavyweight (not Babic and not necessarily Rivas) a ranking in the Heavyweight division (i.e. a ranking full stop) on the grounds that they have fought, or expressed an interest in fighting, in a division you do not recognize?

Alternatively do you simply say "We don't recognize Badgerweight so we'll continue to rate them at Heavyweight like we did before, because they have fought at Heavyweight and remain free to do so again, whether or not they have fought at, or expressed an interest in fighting at, Badgerweight" ?

Full credit for adopting "Badgerweight" my phone is trained up too

[candyslim]

I liked it. Well we have flies and bantams so why not badgers? At least we have an idea about how much a badger might be expected to weigh, a bridger (whatever that is) not so much.

Tell you what else I liked even more: "Babic the cabbage" but as the proud author, I'll let you be the one to explain to him that he has a new improved nickname

[Enlightened-One]

i was asking you was whether it makes any kind of sense to deny a good Heavyweight (not Babic and not necessarily Rivas) a ranking in the Heavyweight division (i.e. a ranking full stop) on the grounds that they have fought, or expressed an interest in fighting, in a division you do not recognize?

It doesn’t make sense to deny a good active heavyweight a ranking in the heavyweight division, simply because they have either fought or are imminently engaging in a bridgerweight fight.

However, I can understand the reason why BoxRec excluded Oscar Rivas, based on the fights he’s engaged in within the last three years, coupled with him being the bridgerweight champion.

In terms of Alen Babic, he wasn’t rated by BoxRec back in February (after competing in only six bouts), but people have decided to only start complaining now.

The calibre of his opposition, up to and including the Tom Little bout, were dire.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210220203 ... xer/852032

Anyway, Babic currently has a 9.968 rating, which should theoretically mean he’s ranked 40th by BoxRec.

Ultimately though, the BoxRec ratings contain too many flaws (as per those I previously mentioned) to take them seriously, which means I’m not frustrated by Rivas or Babic’s lack of ratings.

Let me ask you one question though, can you name any good active heavyweight that isn't ranked by BoxRec, since Babic & Rivas are neither of those two things (the former isn't "good" and the latter hasn't been "active" at heavyweight recently)?

[candyslim]

Rivas is a good heavyweight. He conceded a lot of weight to top six contender Dillian Whyte, knocking him down, and would probably have beaten him if not at a size disadvantage. He is not an active fighter I'll give you that one.

Do you think the quality of the Bridgerweight (or their level of activity within the 18 month limit) has any bearing on BoxRec's policy? I don't suppose it makes any difference.

[Enlightened-One]

Rivas is a good heavyweight.

Oscar Rivas' most recent victory at heavyweight occurred 33½ months ago.

He's lost the only legitimate heavyweight bout he's competed in since then. And he has subsequently beaten two cruiserweights (opponents weighing 203lbs).

He now holds a world title at bridgerweight, which is technically considered (by the WBC) as being a different weight division than heavyweight, and is not recognised by BoxRec.

Oscar Rivas doesn’t currently have another fight lined-up yet. He is not an active competitor at heavyweight.

For sure, Oscar Rivas used to be a decent heavyweight. He might still be, but who knows for sure until the next time he fights one?

Do you think the quality of the Bridgerweight (or their level of activity within the 18 month limit) has any bearing on BoxRec's policy? I don't suppose it makes any difference.

I don’t know the answer to this, since there's an absence of useful information, but it’s abundantly clear that BoxRec refuses to acknowledge the bridgerweight division, because there’s no mention of it on their website.

Also, admittedly I haven’t checked every single name, but it appears that none of the active 32 fighters included in the WBC’s bridgerweight rankings are included in BoxRec’s heavyweight ratings:

• Oscar Rivas
• Evgeny Romanov
• Bryant Jennings
• Lukasz Rozanski
• Alen Babic
• Shigabudin Aliev
• Joel Tambwe Djeko
• Bilal Laggoune
• Andrey Fedosov
• Marco Huck
• Jerry Forrest
• Samuel Kadje
• Artur Szpilka
• Carlous Welch
• Ryan Rozicki
• Labinot Xhoxhaj
• Oleksandr Teslenko
• Isaac Chamberlain
• Geovany Bruzon
• Ruslan Fayfer
• Elvis Garcia
• Senad Gashi
• Alexander Frank
• Paul Gallen
• Devin Vargas
• Petar Milas
• Abigail Soto
• Hemi Ahio
• German Garcia
• Muhammad Farkhan
• Timur Sakulin
• Gabriel Adrian Garcia

[candyslim]

Maybe so but to me the bottom line remains that good fighters deserve to be rated so if you refuse to recognize Bridgerweight then you contInue to rate them as Heavyweights.

[Enlightened-One]

Maybe so but to me the bottom line remains that good fighters deserve to be rated so if you refuse to recognize Bridgerweight then you contInue to rate them as Heavyweights.

It seems that BoxRec aren' doing that.

Maybe they'll change their mind in the future.

But to be perfectly honest, those currently included in the WBC's briderweight rankings aren't key figures at heavyweight... and arguably never have been.

[margaret thatcher]

whatever we think of babic.........look at that thicc beard, that sculpted bald head and powerful brow, that deep booming voice.........dude is absolutely loaded with testosterone. im guessing his balls are gigantic too

[Enlightened-One]

whatever we think of babic.........look at that thicc beard, that sculpted bald head and powerful brow, that deep booming voice.........dude is absolutely loaded with testosterone. im guessing his balls are gigantic too

He is a bit of a caveman. A very entertaining dude!

He looked pretty bad against the flabby out-of-shape (brave and durable) Mark Bennett though.

I think he’s currently stuck in “no man’s land”, because he recently wanted to give up the sport and obviously prefers to compete as a heavyweight, since it provides the biggest financial rewards, despite being too small for that weight class.

I don’t know how accurate his BoxRec stats are, but apparently he lost 50% of the final 14 amateur bouts he competed in during 2019.

I think he’s very limited, but entertaining. Someone I’d like to see doing well in the sport, but I feel he won’t be able to.

Within the next twelve months or so, beating someone like Dave Allen might be the ceiling of his capabilities.

I think he’s the second coming of Nick Webb or Matthew Ellis, a prospect that’ll initially do well up until their first defeat, when they’ll suddenly become cannon fodder for the next generation of heavyweight prospects.

[candyslim]

whatever we think of babic.........look at that thicc beard, that sculpted bald head and powerful brow, that deep booming voice.........dude is absolutely loaded with testosterone. im guessing his balls are gigantic too

Look. Just because Boxtune appears to have buggered off there's no need to assume we are auditioning for a replacement to fill in for the absence of homo-erotic content.

[Enlightened-One]

whatever we think of babic.........look at that thicc beard, that sculpted bald head and powerful brow, that deep booming voice.........dude is absolutely loaded with testosterone. im guessing his balls are gigantic too

Look. Just because Boxtune appears to have buggered off there's no need to assume we are auditioning for a replacement to fill in for the absence of homo-erotic content.

Apparently Boxtune has resorted to lurking.

His most recent post was dated the 4th September, but apparently he was last active on the 23rd October, precisely two weeks after Efe Ajagba’s embarrassingly one-sided defeat to Frank Sanchez.

[candyslim]

whatever we think of babic.........look at that thicc beard, that sculpted bald head and powerful brow, that deep booming voice.........dude is absolutely loaded with testosterone. im guessing his balls are gigantic too

He is a bit of a caveman. A very entertaining dude!

He looked pretty bad against the flabby out-of-shape (brave and durable) Mark Bennett though.

I think he’s currently stuck in “no man’s land”, because he recently wanted to give up the sport and obviously prefers to compete as a heavyweight, since it provides the biggest financial rewards, despite being too small for that weight class.

I don’t know how accurate his BoxRec stats are, but apparently he lost 50% of the final 14 amateur bouts he competed in during 2019.

I think he’s very limited, but entertaining. Someone I’d like to see doing well in the sport, but I feel he won’t be able to.

Within the next twelve months or so, beating someone like Dave Allen might be the ceiling of his capabilities.

I think he’s the second coming of Nick Webb or Matthew Ellis, a prospect that’ll initially do well up until their first defeat, when they’ll suddenly become cannon fodder for the next generation of heavyweight prospects.

I accept what you say about his limitations. I keep expecting him to find he's bitten off more than he can chew, but it hasn't happened yet and we don't know how far he can get on pure aggression and never-say-die spirit.

Can Dave Allen be the man? His size and weight advantage makes that an interesting fight if it should happen. I don' t know the answer to that but I'm really enjoying his journey.

As a sidenote I've often said that Hrgovic is a Croat so he doesn't have the luxury of becoming a darling of the UK Boxing fanbase and a box-office sensation. Mr. Babic is making me question that assessment.

He has a lot of advantages that Babic doesn't but Babic has shown that nationality is no barrier to becoming a UK Boxing hero, if you have the right mental attitude and the personality to make them sit up and take notice.

[cormack]

whatever we think of babic.........look at that thicc beard, that sculpted bald head and powerful brow, that deep booming voice.........dude is absolutely loaded with testosterone. im guessing his balls are gigantic too

sounds like you want to find out

[candyslim]

whatever we think of babic.........look at that thicc beard, that sculpted bald head and powerful brow, that deep booming voice.........dude is absolutely loaded with testosterone. im guessing his balls are gigantic too

Look. Just because Boxtune appears to have buggered off there's no need to assume we are auditioning for a replacement to fill in for the absence of homo-erotic content.

Apparently Boxtune has resorted to lurking.

His most recent post was dated the 4th September, but apparently he was last active on the 23rd October, precisely two weeks after Efe Ajagba’s embarrassingly one-sided defeat to Frank Sanchez.

Good. At least that means he hasn't been hit by a truck. If you're out there Boxtune I for one would welcome you back.

We are having to rely on people like Bandog who are your equal in posting nonsense, but somehow don't have the same comedic value.

[RScarf1]

Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight of all time according to BoxRec. I remember it used to be Muhammad Ali, so it seems that the ratings can be affected by changes to how the points are calculated.

[Enlightened-One]

As a sidenote I've often said that Hrgovic is a Croat so he doesn't have the luxury of becoming a darling of the UK Boxing fanbase and a box-office sensation. Mr. Babic is making me question that assessment.

He has a lot of advantages that Babic doesn't but Babic has shown that nationality is no barrier to becoming a UK Boxing hero, if you have the right mental attitude and the personality to make them sit up and take notice.

Filip Hrgovic will struggle acquiring a fan base, because he seems to compete in a different country for each outing (at least nine different countries from 13 bouts).

He’s only fought twice in Croatia and that was roughly three years ago. And he’s never competed in the UK.

Who are Wasserman trying to market Hrgovic to?

The average fight fan in the UK probably wouldn't know anything about Filip Hrgovic, but they'll all sing Alen Babic's praises. Even my wife knows about him (probably because of that marriage proposal with his very young looking partner).

I'm not Croatian, so perhaps it's inappropriate of me to assume, but I strongly suspect Hrgovic doesn't have much of a following in his homeland, otherwise he wouldn't be choosing to appear on undercards of events staged in Latvia, Germany, USA, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Austria etc.

[adislav123]

As a sidenote I've often said that Hrgovic is a Croat so he doesn't have the luxury of becoming a darling of the UK Boxing fanbase and a box-office sensation. Mr. Babic is making me question that assessment.

He has a lot of advantages that Babic doesn't but Babic has shown that nationality is no barrier to becoming a UK Boxing hero, if you have the right mental attitude and the personality to make them sit up and take notice.

Filip Hrgovic will struggle acquiring a fan base, because he seems to compete in a different country for each outing (at least nine different countries from 13 bouts).

He’s only fought twice in Croatia and that was roughly three years ago. And he’s never competed in the UK.

Who are Wasserman trying to market Hrgovic to?

The average fight fan in the UK probably wouldn't know anything about Filip Hrgovic, but they'll all sing Alen Babic's praises. Even my wife knows about him (probably because of that marriage proposal with his very young looking partner).

I'm not Croatian, so perhaps it's inappropriate of me to assume, but I strongly suspect Hrgovic doesn't have much of a following in his homeland, otherwise he wouldn't be choosing to appear on undercards of events staged in Latvia, Germany, USA, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Austria etc.

you're wrong. huge following in croatia, practically the whole country behind him, surprisingly given the handpicked shit opposition he regularly faces, but they show every single one of his fights on national television at prime time for free. everybody knows him

[Enlightened-One]

As a sidenote I've often said that Hrgovic is a Croat so he doesn't have the luxury of becoming a darling of the UK Boxing fanbase and a box-office sensation. Mr. Babic is making me question that assessment.

He has a lot of advantages that Babic doesn't but Babic has shown that nationality is no barrier to becoming a UK Boxing hero, if you have the right mental attitude and the personality to make them sit up and take notice.

Filip Hrgovic will struggle acquiring a fan base, because he seems to compete in a different country for each outing (at least nine different countries from 13 bouts).

He’s only fought twice in Croatia and that was roughly three years ago. And he’s never competed in the UK.

Who are Wasserman trying to market Hrgovic to?

The average fight fan in the UK probably wouldn't know anything about Filip Hrgovic, but they'll all sing Alen Babic's praises. Even my wife knows about him (probably because of that marriage proposal with his very young looking partner).

I'm not Croatian, so perhaps it's inappropriate of me to assume, but I strongly suspect Hrgovic doesn't have much of a following in his homeland, otherwise he wouldn't be choosing to appear on undercards of events staged in Latvia, Germany, USA, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Austria etc.

you're wrong. huge following in croatia, practically the whole country behind him, surprisingly given the handpicked shit opposition he regularly faces, but they show every single one of his fights on national television at prime time for free. everybody knows him

So you’re from Croatia, right?

If Hrgovic really does have “a huge following in Croatia”, then why doesn’t he fight there? Why compete in a completely different country for every single fight?

Is Croatia an economically deprived country, which means that very few events are staged there?

I’m not being argumentative, instead I am simply curious, because Mark De Mori has competed in more bouts in Croatia than Filip Hrgovic has.

[candyslim]

As a sidenote I've often said that Hrgovic is a Croat so he doesn't have the luxury of becoming a darling of the UK Boxing fanbase and a box-office sensation. Mr. Babic is making me question that assessment.

He has a lot of advantages that Babic doesn't but Babic has shown that nationality is no barrier to becoming a UK Boxing hero, if you have the right mental attitude and the personality to make them sit up and take notice.

Filip Hrgovic will struggle acquiring a fan base, because he seems to compete in a different country for each outing (at least nine different countries from 13 bouts).

He’s only fought twice in Croatia and that was roughly three years ago. And he’s never competed in the UK.

Who are Wasserman trying to market Hrgovic to?

The average fight fan in the UK probably wouldn't know anything about Filip Hrgovic, but they'll all sing Alen Babic's praises. Even my wife knows about him (probably because of that marriage proposal with his very young looking partner).

I'm not Croatian, so perhaps it's inappropriate of me to assume, but I strongly suspect Hrgovic doesn't have much of a following in his homeland, otherwise he wouldn't be choosing to appear on undercards of events staged in Latvia, Germany, USA, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Austria etc.

I agree but my point was that I was coming around to the idea that if Hrgovic were to fight frequently in the UK, it would not be impossible for him to grow a fanbase.

Unfortunately though he doesn't have the force of personality or the rock 'em sock 'em style of Babic so it might be an uphill struggle, but not long ago I would have regarded the possibility as very remote.