Well, Carl was a strong fighter and his resume at 168 is far better than Canelo's. Jean Pascal, Kessler, Bute, Abraham, Dirrell, prime Groves are very good wins.
I think Canelo would have a tough fight with Froch.
I don't think Canelo has enough wins at 168 yet, to make me think he is favourite against Froch, I will always err on the side of the person with the proven track record at the weight, or who has a win over an elite level fighter that suggests they've got the goods.
Froch's workrate and toughness, and his size would cause problems, Froch was a better fighter than Plant for certain, with a better range of weapons, and would have fought far more aggressively.
I would currently favour Froch to win, based on his track record, and the fact that Kessler aside the guys who beat him, did so by being slick and awkward, they weren't stalking fighters like Canelo.
It's a fight I would have loved to have seen for sure.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 10 Nov 2021, 09:18
by jamesmcdonnell
ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Nov 2021, 12:38
Would be a great fight. I would shade Froch to take it.
Same here - for now.
As Apollo says, if Gingernuts moves up and cleans up 175, I will assume he would have had the beating of Froch.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 10 Nov 2021, 10:22
by ironbeard
573100 wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 10:13
Froch has always had a very high opinion of himself. I don't believe Froch had anything that would bother Alvarez. Even when he was active Froch didn't fancy the job vs Golovkin.
Canelo fancied a robbery of the ages and a gift.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Well, Carl was a strong fighter and his resume at 168 is far better than Canelo's. Jean Pascal, Kessler, Bute, Abraham, Dirrell, prime Groves are very good wins.
I think Canelo would have a tough fight with Froch.
I don't think Canelo has enough wins at 168 yet, to make me think he is favourite against Froch, I will always err on the side of the person with the proven track record at the weight, or who has a win over an elite level fighter that suggests they've got the goods.
Froch's workrate and toughness, and his size would cause problems, Froch was a better fighter than Plant for certain, with a better range of weapons, and would have fought far more aggressively.
I would currently favour Froch to win, based on his track record, and the fact that Kessler aside the guys who beat him, did so by being slick and awkward, they weren't stalking fighters like Canelo.
It's a fight I would have loved to have seen for sure.
True.
Bute was regarded as one of the best SMW's(big, slick southpaw with a deadly uppercut) at that time before he got battered by Cobra. Also Bute had better wins(Berrio, Andrade, Bika) at SMW at that time than BJS, Callum and Plant had in this time.
So when "Mr KO" Bute stepped up vs a proven-battle tested fighter at the top level like Froch then we saw what happened.
First, we should see how Canelo would deal with guys like Bivol, Joe Smith and Beterbiev.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
573100 wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 10:13
Froch has always had a very high opinion of himself. I don't believe Froch had anything that would bother Alvarez. Even when he was active Froch didn't fancy the job vs Golovkin.
Canelo fancied a robbery of the ages and a gift.
GGG 1 , for sure.
Also people hype and overrate his win over Kovalev but they forget that Kovalev was washed up, had drinking problems, fought on short notice and he also had a rehydration clause. Pretty much a smart cherrypick from Canelo due to the fact Kova had a belt.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Well, Carl was a strong fighter and his resume at 168 is far better than Canelo's. Jean Pascal, Kessler, Bute, Abraham, Dirrell, prime Groves are very good wins.
I think Canelo would have a tough fight with Froch.
I don't think Canelo has enough wins at 168 yet, to make me think he is favourite against Froch, I will always err on the side of the person with the proven track record at the weight, or who has a win over an elite level fighter that suggests they've got the goods.
Froch's workrate and toughness, and his size would cause problems, Froch was a better fighter than Plant for certain, with a better range of weapons, and would have fought far more aggressively.
I would currently favour Froch to win, based on his track record, and the fact that Kessler aside the guys who beat him, did so by being slick and awkward, they weren't stalking fighters like Canelo.
It's a fight I would have loved to have seen for sure.
True.
Bute was regarded as one of the best SMW's(big, slick southpaw with a deadly uppercut) at that time before he got battered by Cobra. Also Bute had better wins(Berrio, Andrade, Bika) at SMW at that time than BJS, Callum and Plant had in this time.
So when "Mr KO" Bute stepped up vs a proven-battle tested fighter at the top level like Froch then we saw what happened.
First, we should see how Canelo would deal with guys like Bivol, Joe Smith and Beterbiev.
Yes the Bute win gets overlooked, but Bute had a good record coming in, and was seen as a potential banana skin and Froch absolutely battered him.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
573100 wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 10:13
Froch has always had a very high opinion of himself. I don't believe Froch had anything that would bother Alvarez. Even when he was active Froch didn't fancy the job vs Golovkin.
Canelo fancied a robbery of the ages and a gift.
GGG 1 , for sure.
Also people hype and overrate his win over Kovalev but they forget that Kovalev was washed up, had drinking problems, fought on short notice and he also had a rehydration clause. Pretty much a smart cherrypick from Canelo due to the fact Kova had a belt.
Have to confess, I didn't know about the rehydration clause, which takes the edge off of the win for me.
I was shocked he was able to knock Kovalev out at the time, and I thought he'd made a mistake taking him on, but with hindsight, very good matchmaking.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
I don't think Canelo has enough wins at 168 yet, to make me think he is favourite against Froch, I will always err on the side of the person with the proven track record at the weight, or who has a win over an elite level fighter that suggests they've got the goods.
Froch's workrate and toughness, and his size would cause problems, Froch was a better fighter than Plant for certain, with a better range of weapons, and would have fought far more aggressively.
I would currently favour Froch to win, based on his track record, and the fact that Kessler aside the guys who beat him, did so by being slick and awkward, they weren't stalking fighters like Canelo.
It's a fight I would have loved to have seen for sure.
True.
Bute was regarded as one of the best SMW's(big, slick southpaw with a deadly uppercut) at that time before he got battered by Cobra. Also Bute had better wins(Berrio, Andrade, Bika) at SMW at that time than BJS, Callum and Plant had in this time.
So when "Mr KO" Bute stepped up vs a proven-battle tested fighter at the top level like Froch then we saw what happened.
First, we should see how Canelo would deal with guys like Bivol, Joe Smith and Beterbiev.
Yes the Bute win gets overlooked, but Bute had a good record coming in, and was seen as a potential banana skin and Froch absolutely battered him.
Yup. Bute was a nice scalp-win for Cobra.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Also people hype and overrate his win over Kovalev but they forget that Kovalev was washed up, had drinking problems, fought on short notice and he also had a rehydration clause. Pretty much a smart cherrypick from Canelo due to the fact Kova had a belt.
Have to confess, I didn't know about the rehydration clause, which takes the edge off of the win for me.
I was shocked he was able to knock Kovalev out at the time, and I thought he'd made a mistake taking him on, but with hindsight, very good matchmaking.
“I was tired after round six, because I had my last fight very close to this one, but it’s okay, it’s a new experience for me,” said Kovalev moments after being knocked out in the 11th round by Canelo Alvarez. “Canelo is really a great champion. A little bit right now, I didn’t recover from my last fight. But it’s okay. "
Kovalev had to take the fight bc of the big payday.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Bute was regarded as one of the best SMW's(big, slick southpaw with a deadly uppercut) at that time before he got battered by Cobra. Also Bute had better wins(Berrio, Andrade, Bika) at SMW at that time than BJS, Callum and Plant had in this time.
So when "Mr KO" Bute stepped up vs a proven-battle tested fighter at the top level like Froch then we saw what happened.
First, we should see how Canelo would deal with guys like Bivol, Joe Smith and Beterbiev.
Yes the Bute win gets overlooked, but Bute had a good record coming in, and was seen as a potential banana skin and Froch absolutely battered him.
Yup. Bute was a nice scalp-win for Cobra.
I remember that Froch had an unusally fast start in that fight, he was usually cagey in the first couple, looking to land counters and establish range, but he was on a mission that night, and just walked right through Bute.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 10 Nov 2021, 18:17
by brilo33
talkig about this before i am a froch fan boy i aint gonna lie , i think canelo would win tho , i would say saul 2nd fight v ggg v froch v kessler 2 , i going canelo i think saul would back carl ,making froch the back foot fighter putting him with his back to the ropes , saul hasnt really shown any time he has been really hurt thats taking triple gs best froch went down to groves tho i think that was a flash ko down .smith beat groves ,saul beat smith easy
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 10 Nov 2021, 19:07
by Enlightened-One
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 15:09Have to confess, I didn't know about the rehydration clause, which takes the edge off of the win for me.
There was no rehydration clause and Kovalev didn't take the fight at short-notice.
Even if the alleged rehydration clause really existed, the alleged weight that was conveyed by the rumour (refuted by Buddy McGirt and Egis Kilmas) was greater than Krusher's typical hydrated ring-weight reported by HBO for the vast majority of his world title bouts.
Discussions for the Canelo-Kovalev bout commenced eight months prior and terms were agreed roughly three months later.
Krusher claimed he wanted to maintain a busy schedule prior to facing Canelo.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 10 Nov 2021, 19:21
by Steven Metro
Canelo is a legitimate elite fighter, however, he has obviously benefitted from some dodgy decisions and cherry picking of opponents. His supposed win and draw over GGG, according to a majority of fans, polls, and non official judges should have been losses. Its also important to point out that he fought Golovkin when Golovkin was 37 years old, and had started to look vulnerable for the first time in his career in the Kell Brook fight. Canelo's team purposely timed the fights with GGG to once GGG reached late 30's and was starting to decline just a bit. Even fighting an older GGG, a majority of people thought Canelo lost both fights.
The same can be said of his fight VS Kovalev, fighting Kovalev when the Russian was late 30's and at least 3, possibly 5 years removed from his prime. I do think a Kovalev of 2012-15 would have KO'd Canelo personally but that's neither here nor there. In fairness to Canelo, its not a fair matchup to begin with if both were in their prime because Sergey is a much bigger man. I do feel today, Bivol or Beterbiev would defeat Canelo at 175.
Froch in his prime VS Canelo in his prime at 168, I gotta go with Froch personally, mainly on account of his size advantage he would carry into the fight. Wouldnt be a fair fight because of that. Hypothetically if it happened I could actually see Froch stopping Canelo late. Canelo hits harder but Froch was one of the roughest pressure fighters there was and I could see that pressure getting to the smaller man in late rounds. Arthur Abraham would be a winnable fight for Canelo I think. Mikkel Kessler would be a 50/50, I personally might lean a touch towards Canelo. Andre Ward I think would win a comfortable decision over Canelo at 168.
Once again tho, none of those are "fair fights" because Canelo is not a natural 168er.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 10 Nov 2021, 19:34
by adislav123
can't disagree much xcept the 'fair' fight issue.
2 men don't have to weigh exactly the same fight night to make a fight fair.
they have to make weight.
canelo 'grew' quite well into 68, he won't have any problems at 75, weighing at least 185 come fight night but i agree in thinking beterbiev would beat him. but not because of outweighing him by a couple of pounds but the constant pressure combined with constant heavy handed relentless output.
still like to see canelo give it a go at 175. smith, bivol or beterbiev.
i just don't think he will step up, he and his team know his limit is reached at 168, but who knows.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 10 Nov 2021, 19:44
by brilo33
Steven Metro wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 19:21
Canelo is a legitimate elite fighter, however, he has obviously benefitted from some dodgy decisions and cherry picking of opponents. His supposed win and draw over GGG, according to a majority of fans, polls, and non official judges should have been losses. Its also important to point out that he fought Golovkin when Golovkin was 37 years old, and had started to look vulnerable for the first time in his career in the Kell Brook fight. Canelo's team purposely timed the fights with GGG to once GGG reached late 30's and was starting to decline just a bit. Even fighting an older GGG, a majority of people thought Canelo lost both fights.
The same can be said of his fight VS Kovalev, fighting Kovalev when the Russian was late 30's and at least 3, possibly 5 years removed from his prime. I do think a Kovalev of 2012-15 would have KO'd Canelo personally but that's neither here nor there. In fairness to Canelo, its not a fair matchup to begin with if both were in their prime because Sergey is a much bigger man. I do feel today, Bivol or Beterbiev would defeat Canelo at 175.
Froch in his prime VS Canelo in his prime at 168, I gotta go with Froch personally, mainly on account of his size advantage he would carry into the fight. Wouldnt be a fair fight because of that. Hypothetically if it happened I could actually see Froch stopping Canelo late. Canelo hits harder but Froch was one of the roughest pressure fighters there was and I could see that pressure getting to the smaller man in late rounds. Arthur Abraham would be a winnable fight for Canelo I think. Mikkel Kessler would be a 50/50, I personally might lean a touch towards Canelo. Andre Ward I think would win a comfortable decision over Canelo at 168.
Once again tho, none of those are "fair fights" because Canelo is not a natural 168er.
yea but you have to give credit to canelo in the 2nd fight for bringing it to triple g, un thinkable shows how versatile of a boxer saul is , i dont think height would be a big thing as usaly it comes with naturally being heavier which i dont think carl would have over saul, also i doubt carl would be fighting at range like plant , i think carl would have to go center of the ring and hold it ,he is very capable froch of winning, but at this time i go saul i think wins, 2 years down the line we might see what the weakness of saul is and then in a furture history fight froch will know his weakness
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 11 Nov 2021, 06:21
by apollo creed
Steven Metro wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 19:21
Canelo is a legitimate elite fighter, however, he has obviously benefitted from some dodgy decisions and cherry picking of opponents. His supposed win and draw over GGG, according to a majority of fans, polls, and non official judges should have been losses. Its also important to point out that he fought Golovkin when Golovkin was 37 years old, and had started to look vulnerable for the first time in his career in the Kell Brook fight. Canelo's team purposely timed the fights with GGG to once GGG reached late 30's and was starting to decline just a bit. Even fighting an older GGG, a majority of people thought Canelo lost both fights.
The same can be said of his fight VS Kovalev, fighting Kovalev when the Russian was late 30's and at least 3, possibly 5 years removed from his prime. I do think a Kovalev of 2012-15 would have KO'd Canelo personally but that's neither here nor there. In fairness to Canelo, its not a fair matchup to begin with if both were in their prime because Sergey is a much bigger man. I do feel today, Bivol or Beterbiev would defeat Canelo at 175.
Froch in his prime VS Canelo in his prime at 168, I gotta go with Froch personally, mainly on account of his size advantage he would carry into the fight. Wouldnt be a fair fight because of that. Hypothetically if it happened I could actually see Froch stopping Canelo late. Canelo hits harder but Froch was one of the roughest pressure fighters there was and I could see that pressure getting to the smaller man in late rounds. Arthur Abraham would be a winnable fight for Canelo I think. Mikkel Kessler would be a 50/50, I personally might lean a touch towards Canelo. Andre Ward I think would win a comfortable decision over Canelo at 168.
Once again tho, none of those are "fair fights" because Canelo is not a natural 168er.
Good objective points.
People forgot that Canelo should've fought G after Cotto but then Canelo fought chiny-ww Khan and then he vacated his WBC MW title.
G was 36-37 y/o and Canelo was 26-27 y/o, yet Canelo couldn't beat old G.
Kovalev came after getting stopped in Ward II fight and KO'ed by Eleider Alvarez I fight. He had to take the fight with Canelo on Canelo's terms due of the big payday. As he said he didn't have enough time to recover and prepare properly for Canelo.
Canelo, indeed is a very good fighter but we have to see him vs Bivol, Benavidez and Beterbiev.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Steven Metro wrote: ↑10 Nov 2021, 19:21
Canelo is a legitimate elite fighter, however, he has obviously benefitted from some dodgy decisions and cherry picking of opponents. His supposed win and draw over GGG, according to a majority of fans, polls, and non official judges should have been losses. Its also important to point out that he fought Golovkin when Golovkin was 37 years old, and had started to look vulnerable for the first time in his career in the Kell Brook fight. Canelo's team purposely timed the fights with GGG to once GGG reached late 30's and was starting to decline just a bit. Even fighting an older GGG, a majority of people thought Canelo lost both fights.
The same can be said of his fight VS Kovalev, fighting Kovalev when the Russian was late 30's and at least 3, possibly 5 years removed from his prime. I do think a Kovalev of 2012-15 would have KO'd Canelo personally but that's neither here nor there. In fairness to Canelo, its not a fair matchup to begin with if both were in their prime because Sergey is a much bigger man. I do feel today, Bivol or Beterbiev would defeat Canelo at 175.
Froch in his prime VS Canelo in his prime at 168, I gotta go with Froch personally, mainly on account of his size advantage he would carry into the fight. Wouldnt be a fair fight because of that. Hypothetically if it happened I could actually see Froch stopping Canelo late. Canelo hits harder but Froch was one of the roughest pressure fighters there was and I could see that pressure getting to the smaller man in late rounds. Arthur Abraham would be a winnable fight for Canelo I think. Mikkel Kessler would be a 50/50, I personally might lean a touch towards Canelo. Andre Ward I think would win a comfortable decision over Canelo at 168.
Once again tho, none of those are "fair fights" because Canelo is not a natural 168er.
yea but you have to give credit to canelo in the 2nd fight for bringing it to triple g, un thinkable shows how versatile of a boxer saul is , i dont think height would be a big thing as usaly it comes with naturally being heavier which i dont think carl would have over saul, also i doubt carl would be fighting at range like plant , i think carl would have to go center of the ring and hold it ,he is very capable froch of winning, but at this time i go saul i think wins, 2 years down the line we might see what the weakness of saul is and then in a furture history fight froch will know his weakness
A 37 y/o GGG vs a 27-28 y/oCanelo and G still gave Canelo fists.
G was old and past of his prime.
Prime Cobra would be a big problem for the smaller Canelo @168. S6 Ward, Dirrell and Kessler too.
Canelo would beat Bika, Abraham, Taylor, Green and Bute.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 11 Nov 2021, 13:12
by adislav123
Abraham at his very best with the biased german TV judges (mostly not needed, still in place) was not that much different in style than canelo.
Whatever! Random comparison
Guess the quality of opposition made the difference.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 11 Nov 2021, 13:19
by apollo creed
Nope. Canelo would beat Abe with ease.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Also people hype and overrate his win over Kovalev but they forget that Kovalev was washed up, had drinking problems, fought on short notice and he also had a rehydration clause. Pretty much a smart cherrypick from Canelo due to the fact Kova had a belt.
Have to confess, I didn't know about the rehydration clause, which takes the edge off of the win for me.
I was shocked he was able to knock Kovalev out at the time, and I thought he'd made a mistake taking him on, but with hindsight, very good matchmaking.
Yeah, completely agree with all of that.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 11 Nov 2021, 13:32
by bigjack
KiwiRider wrote: ↑09 Nov 2021, 13:42
Best not to forget Carl knocked George Groves out at Wembley in front of 80,000 people
What !,when ?
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
Posted: 11 Nov 2021, 13:37
by adislav123
apollo creed wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 13:19
Nope. Canelo would beat Abe with ease.
just imagine for one second PRIME ABRAHAM, somewhere IN GERMANY vs. CANELO!...
..
and elaborate that 'WITH EASE'!
would be a stinker for the ages defo, but hypothetically with canelo as of now the challenger/prime abraham a strap holder at 68, shit goin down in hamburg! my money is on king arthur!
or could turn into an amazing all out war! which phlegmatic abraham could never EVER been lured into by anyone!
canelo lost both WARS with ggg.
again. random. hypothetical. whatever.
Re: Froch: "In my prime at about 34, 35-years-old against Canelo Alvarez, I think I would have been too much for him."
