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Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 15:16
by peter barlow
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 13:46
ava is good euro level, not world
kellys got some good speed and reflexes but doesnt seem strong enough or hard enough to do much beyond british. maybe he should try for a run there and then maybe they can cherry pick a euro title if a weak champ gets it/vacant title, or get him beaten up in a voluntary world title fight or something
he should defo have another go
It depends what you consider world level. If it's top 10 I think he qualifies. Indeed he could be higher but a few big names are up there that are faded like Danny Garcia, Brook etc.
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 15:45
by skanksta
I think if you're "a good Euro champ" - as Ava is - then you are "world level."
Very much doubt he'd beat El Tel/ESJ but who would ?
He'd be a respectable defence against them. And after Porter he could beat any of the rest of the top 10 on a good night.
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 16:32
by margaret thatcher
good euro level is euro level, not world class. ava. sergio garcia.
ava got absolutely brutalized by kava , and beaten clearly by a peterson who never won again.........after those he went on his european run, against guys who havent stepped up to world level, and hasnt been back to the states. he's found his niche, if he ventures into world class opposition his run is ending
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 16:39
by KiwiRider
skanksta wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 15:45
I think if you're "a good Euro champ" - as Ava is - then you are "world level."
Very much doubt he'd beat El Tel/ESJ but who would ?
He'd be a respectable defence against them. And after Porter he could beat any of the rest of the top 10 on a good night.
Look at his last 5 fights, he is blasting through guys in a handful of rounds at a European level, that means he is world level in my book.
Boxrec have him in the top #10 and I agree, and that is world level
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 16:39
by KiwiRider
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 16:32
good euro level is euro level, not world class. ava. sergio garcia.
ava got absolutely brutalized by kava , and beaten clearly by a peterson who never won again.........after those he went on his european run, against guys who havent stepped up to world level, and hasnt been back to the states. he's found his niche, if he ventures into world class opposition his run is ending
Any of the champs would know about it though, he ain't no easy night
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 16:42
by margaret thatcher
he was pretty easy for kava
gave peterson an okay fight but well beaten
then started his euro campaign and hasnt since fought anyone who has even fought a world class operator. boxing is about levels and for me he's pretty much locked on to lose to any genuine world class welter, not his level imo. i know we've grown to love him, i like him too
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 17:01
by skanksta
Yeah you're probably right, but I'd still call him "world level".
Semantics really.
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 17:32
by dookus
skanksta wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 17:01
Yeah you're probably right, but I'd still call him "world level".
Semantics really.
Fringe world-level I think. Sort of good enough to fight for the title but unlikely ever to win it.
Kelly I think needs a new trainer. Booth is very very good at what he does, but increasingly I think that is bringing the absolute best out of already excellent fighters. Fighters without a superb amateur background - Kelly's was good but not as deep as Haye's or Groves's - seem to end up with bad habits. Kelly's leaned into his and it's unmade him. He needs to go back to learning to be being very good at the fundamentals, because that's what'll serve you best through rough spots.
Also it feels like Booth's fighters often have stamina worries at the top level. Why is that?
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 12 Nov 2021, 17:50
by KiwiRider
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 16:42
he was pretty easy for kava
gave peterson an okay fight but well beaten
then started his euro campaign and hasnt since fought anyone who has even fought a world class operator. boxing is about levels and for me he's pretty much locked on to lose to any genuine world class welter, not his level imo. i know we've grown to love him, i like him too
Kava was a while ago, the dude has improved.
At 33 I don't expect this run to last, and I expect him to be ducked.
Re: Josh Kelly
Posted: 13 Nov 2021, 06:34
by maverick23
dookus wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 17:32
skanksta wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 17:01
Yeah you're probably right, but I'd still call him "world level".
Semantics really.
Fringe world-level I think. Sort of good enough to fight for the title but unlikely ever to win it.
Kelly I think needs a new trainer. Booth is very very good at what he does, but increasingly I think that is bringing the absolute best out of already excellent fighters. Fighters without a superb amateur background - Kelly's was good but not as deep as Haye's or Groves's - seem to end up with bad habits. Kelly's leaned into his and it's unmade him. He needs to go back to learning to be being very good at the fundamentals, because that's what'll serve you best through rough spots.
Also it feels like Booth's fighters often have stamina worries at the top level. Why is that?
Kelly’s amateur record is similar to Haye’s (probably a bit worse) and arguably better than Groves’.
He fought at the Olympics (which neither Groves or Haye managed to get to), got to the quarter final of the world championships (whilst Haye got to the final) and won the ABAs.