BoxRec

giacomino wrote: ↑30 Nov 2021, 10:36 For me, besides Canelo, Chocolatito is in. 50-3, 41KOs, belts in four divisions, almost all of his fights on the road. He's beaten 11 current or former beltholders and two of his three losses were crap decisions. Brilliant fighter. If he were a Ukrainian heavyweight he'd be considered the second coming of Jesus on boxrec. For me, Inoue just needs to move up one more time and fight the best guy at 122 or 126 and win and he'd be in the mix. The way he's destroyed the bantamweight division after winning belts in two other divisions has been extremely impressive.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 00:16

giacomino wrote: ↑30 Nov 2021, 10:36 For me, besides Canelo, Chocolatito is in. 50-3, 41KOs, belts in four divisions, almost all of his fights on the road. He's beaten 11 current or former beltholders and two of his three losses were crap decisions. Brilliant fighter. If he were a Ukrainian heavyweight he'd be considered the second coming of Jesus on boxrec. For me, Inoue just needs to move up one more time and fight the best guy at 122 or 126 and win and he'd be in the mix. The way he's destroyed the bantamweight division after winning belts in two other divisions has been extremely impressive.

shots fired at big olek

giacomino wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 09:02

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 00:16

giacomino wrote: ↑30 Nov 2021, 10:36 For me, besides Canelo, Chocolatito is in. 50-3, 41KOs, belts in four divisions, almost all of his fights on the road. He's beaten 11 current or former beltholders and two of his three losses were crap decisions. Brilliant fighter. If he were a Ukrainian heavyweight he'd be considered the second coming of Jesus on boxrec. For me, Inoue just needs to move up one more time and fight the best guy at 122 or 126 and win and he'd be in the mix. The way he's destroyed the bantamweight division after winning belts in two other divisions has been extremely impressive.

shots fired at big olek

Nope. He’s been one of my favorite fighters since winning gold at the 2012 Olympics.

gregregegg wrote: ↑29 Nov 2021, 02:19 Canelo clearly is.

I think Usyk already clearly is. Gold medalist, All the belts fighting away through a strong cruiser division, smoked a big, prime heavy with arguably the deepest resume of the current era. Its as good as it gets really.

I wouldent have anyone else definatly there yet although GGG should probably be, and crawford may well be in hindsight.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 04:16 In my opinion, a Hall-of-Famer is someone who’s enjoyed an illustrious career that either competed for a prolonged period at elite (i.e. Miguel Cotto) or provided an historically significant contribution to the sport (i.e. Arturo Gatti).

However, an all-time-great is a person who was not only the very best of their respective era, but also good enough to be considered as one of the greatest to have ever competed (i.e. Sugar Ray Robinson). And what I mean is this... they're capable of beating the majority of the very best throughout the entire course of history.

A lot of the names mentioned in this thread are merely future Hall-of-Fame worthy candidates, but very few of them will actually end up being regarded as genuine all-time-greats more than a decade from now.

So you need to know a lot about existing all-time-greats from their respective weight classes/eras and determine whether they would actually lose to some of the best fighters competing today.

And we need something more than the proverbial eyeball test to validate someone’s talent. Their resume needs to contain credible names in their respective primes.

For instance: Errol Spence Jr. and Terence Crawford are dead-cert future Hall-of-Famers, but I don’t think either man will ever be considered all-time-greats.

Could they beat Floyd Mayweather Jr., Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Thomas Hearns, Pernell Whitaker and some of the big names from yesteryear? I really don't think they can.

In stark contrast: Oleksandr Usyk has already achieved all-time-great status. He’s one of the top-two cruiserweights that’s ever competed in that weight class. And he’s just beaten Anthony Joshua, who I consider to be a future Hall-of-Famer, a former unified world champion and was previously regarded as one of the top-three heavyweights competing today.

Therefore, the bar for achieving all-time-great status is much higher than what’s required to become a Hall-of-Famer.

I’m confident that if people revised their criteria accordingly, they’d change their mind about some of the names they’ve mentioned.

Anyway, I’m not being funny, but people mentioning the likes of Ryan Garcia, David Benavidez, Shakur Stevenson, Devin Haney, Artur Beterbiev and GGG as future all-time-greats, is just laughably appalling!

Syntax Error wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 06:23 Crawford has wasted the last few years cashing cheques against wank opposition, but to be fair to him, he was a shoo-in before he went up to 147.

Usyk, Gonzalez and Alvarez have already achieved ATG status whatever they do going forwards.

Golovkin sneaks in for me; had he got the decision against Alvarez, he'd be a no-brainer.

Errol Spence is probably a victory over Crawford from being an ATG, but that's an ominous task, even on paper, let alone in reality.

Fury could and should be an ATG by now, but his propensity to disappear whenever he reaches great heights hampers his credentials.

jezzamundo wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 05:56

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 04:16 In my opinion, a Hall-of-Famer is someone who’s enjoyed an illustrious career that either competed for a prolonged period at elite (i.e. Miguel Cotto) or provided an historically significant contribution to the sport (i.e. Arturo Gatti).

However, an all-time-great is a person who was not only the very best of their respective era, but also good enough to be considered as one of the greatest to have ever competed (i.e. Sugar Ray Robinson). And what I mean is this... they're capable of beating the majority of the very best throughout the entire course of history.

A lot of the names mentioned in this thread are merely future Hall-of-Fame worthy candidates, but very few of them will actually end up being regarded as genuine all-time-greats more than a decade from now.

So you need to know a lot about existing all-time-greats from their respective weight classes/eras and determine whether they would actually lose to some of the best fighters competing today.

And we need something more than the proverbial eyeball test to validate someone’s talent. Their resume needs to contain credible names in their respective primes.

For instance: Errol Spence Jr. and Terence Crawford are dead-cert future Hall-of-Famers, but I don’t think either man will ever be considered all-time-greats.

Could they beat Floyd Mayweather Jr., Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Thomas Hearns, Pernell Whitaker and some of the big names from yesteryear? I really don't think they can.

In stark contrast: Oleksandr Usyk has already achieved all-time-great status. He’s one of the top-two cruiserweights that’s ever competed in that weight class. And he’s just beaten Anthony Joshua, who I consider to be a future Hall-of-Famer, a former unified world champion and was previously regarded as one of the top-three heavyweights competing today.

Therefore, the bar for achieving all-time-great status is much higher than what’s required to become a Hall-of-Famer.

I’m confident that if people revised their criteria accordingly, they’d change their mind about some of the names they’ve mentioned.

Anyway, I’m not being funny, but people mentioning the likes of Ryan Garcia, David Benavidez, Shakur Stevenson, Devin Haney, Artur Beterbiev and GGG as future all-time-greats, is just laughably appalling!

Decent post - I guess I considered 'all time great' to be synonymous with Hall of Famer. GGG's resume isn't the strongest, but he's head and shoulder over the other names you listed. Not to mention he deserves a W over a prime Canelo.

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2021, 14:15 Usyk, Fury, GGG, Canelo, Loma and Juan Francisco Estrada

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 Dec 2021, 17:40 34-35 y/o Golovkin beat younger Canelo in the 1st fight, Jacobs and Chenko. OG fought and beat the best in his era.

Its like when Ray Leonard beat Hagler, Duran and Hearns, although Canelo and Jacobs are much bigger, size-wise fighters.

Anyway, lets not forget that fighters like Cotto and Canelo avoided like plague 2015-2016 GGG.

TonyJ wrote: ↑28 Nov 2021, 20:39

bobcatbox wrote: ↑28 Nov 2021, 20:26 Chocolatito.

Boots Ennis has potential to be a once in a generation talent at 147-154.

I think Fury is flirting with ATG status if he can string a few more big title defenses together. Especially if he meets and defeats Usyk, which he should.

You’re right forgot Ennis and Vergil both definitely have that potential.

stujones wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 07:14 No mention of Donaire? Think he is a good bit closer than some being mentioned.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑12 Dec 2021, 13:42 Guys saying Lomachenko need to sit down! His best win is GRJ and has 2 losses to an old, past prime Salido and Lopez who goes on to lost to Kamboso who is average at best.