BoxRec

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:10

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:02 Re: Frankie Gavin

To the best of my knowledge Anthony Farnell's gym is clean i.e. no PEDS. That is a good thing and Anthony is a very good trainer. Some other gyms and other trainers aren't, which is a shame but a reality.

With a clean trainer, Frankie did not have the gumption to realise himself and had nobody to grab him by the scruff of the neck and explain to him that in order to get to the top and maximise his potential he would need to take PEDs. He looked undersized and underpowered at his weight in part because of his ill-discipline with food but the fact he was a clean fighter made an even bigger negative impact IMO.

People don't like to hear it, I know, but to get to the top of boxing (with a few exceptions e.g. Bellew, and matchmaking helped him) you need to be at the very least topping up your testosterone. Look at the physiques of the top lads in Frankie's weight division.

All in my opinion, of course...

So what your saying is my alky mate who is ripped for some genetic reason is topping up on peds as well as Special Brew

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:24

Old bones Ian wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:10

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:02 Re: Frankie Gavin

To the best of my knowledge Anthony Farnell's gym is clean i.e. no PEDS. That is a good thing and Anthony is a very good trainer. Some other gyms and other trainers aren't, which is a shame but a reality.

With a clean trainer, Frankie did not have the gumption to realise himself and had nobody to grab him by the scruff of the neck and explain to him that in order to get to the top and maximise his potential he would need to take PEDs. He looked undersized and underpowered at his weight in part because of his ill-discipline with food but the fact he was a clean fighter made an even bigger negative impact IMO.

People don't like to hear it, I know, but to get to the top of boxing (with a few exceptions e.g. Bellew, and matchmaking helped him) you need to be at the very least topping up your testosterone. Look at the physiques of the top lads in Frankie's weight division.

All in my opinion, of course...

So what your saying is my alky mate who is ripped for some genetic reason is topping up on peds as well as Special Brew

No. Obviously I should have worded my final sentence better. The physique alone is clearly not the only indicator.

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:40 Allow me to expand a little. Most people have a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio of 1:1. Analysing this ratio is how testers determine whether a boxer is cheating or not. If the first number is higher than the second number it is likely the boxer is taking steroids. However, because there are 'genetic freaks' who are natural outliers, VADA allow for a ratio of up to 4:1 to make sure everybody is covered for genetic anomalies.

What does this mean?

You will not fail a drug test unless your ratio is 5:1 or higher.

What does this mean?

You are (although it goes unsaid) allowed to take testosterone as long as you keep your ratio at 4:1 or lower.

This is easy to do but you need to have suppliers and administers you trust to get it right, perhaps a foreign doctor, perhaps a well educated (in the subject) trainer, etc....

If you are not doing this you will be at a huge disadvantage because most top fighters are doing this. Sad but true.

In other words, VADA testing is not a test of whether you take drugs or not. It is a test to make sure you don't take too many drugs.

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:50 It's also why the phrase "he's never failed a drug test" is used so frequently. You'll rarely get somebody saying "he's never taken PEDs".

That's one of the reasons I believe Bellew didn't take anything at all. He was vocal about the fact he'd never taken anything. He was also knocking fully grown, hard men out cold when he was a teenager, He's naturally a very testy bloke. Plus a few other reasons from knowing where he's trained and who with, etc. He should get more credit than he does for what he achieved.

Butti99 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 12:58 Frankie Gavin
Fred evans
Tom stalker
Ogogo
Bradley Saunders
Jamie cox
Don Broadhurst
David price
Danny price
Audley Harrison
Micheal Maguire
There’s seems to be quite a lot

forcefraser wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:36 Has to be Stalker. Only value he gave was providing comedy regarding his love for his nan.

I thought Luke Campbell would win a world title after the hype he was given. Good fighter but fell short at top level.

Who was his best win? Coyle or Perez?

That's nothing to shout about for a gold medalist

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:45

forcefraser wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:36 Has to be Stalker. Only value he gave was providing comedy regarding his love for his nan.

I thought Luke Campbell would win a world title after the hype he was given. Good fighter but fell short at top level.

Who was his best win? Coyle or Perez?

That's nothing to shout about for a gold medalist

Luke Campbell was in a very tough division as well.

Had he been pro around in early 2010's, he probably would have.. But it comes down to timing too.

So many boxers wouldn't even be world champions if there was only one belt per division.

forcefraser wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:51 He was in a tough division, but his body of work as a pro in terms of wins is disappointing. His career was start/stop

I forgot about Big Audley. He was even more scared than Joshua is to get hit.

That snot smeared face after the Haye shellacking haunts me still.

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:50 It's also why the phrase "he's never failed a drug test" is used so frequently. You'll rarely get somebody saying "he's never taken PEDs".

That's one of the reasons I believe Bellew didn't take anything at all. He was vocal about the fact he'd never taken anything. He was also knocking fully grown, hard men out cold when he was a teenager, He's naturally a very testy bloke. Plus a few other reasons from knowing where he's trained and who with, etc. He should get more credit than he does for what he achieved.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:56

forcefraser wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:51 He was in a tough division, but his body of work as a pro in terms of wins is disappointing. His career was start/stop

I forgot about Big Audley. He was even more scared than Joshua is to get hit.

That snot smeared face after the Haye shellacking haunts me still.

yeh, I hate looking at it, but can't stop looking

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:45

forcefraser wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:36 Has to be Stalker. Only value he gave was providing comedy regarding his love for his nan.

I thought Luke Campbell would win a world title after the hype he was given. Good fighter but fell short at top level.

Who was his best win? Coyle or Perez?

That's nothing to shout about for a gold medalist

Luke Campbell was in a very tough division as well.

Had he been pro around in early 2010's, he probably would have.. But it comes down to timing too.

So many boxers wouldn't even be world champions if there was only one belt per division.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 14:09

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:56

forcefraser wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 13:51 He was in a tough division, but his body of work as a pro in terms of wins is disappointing. His career was start/stop

I forgot about Big Audley. He was even more scared than Joshua is to get hit.

That snot smeared face after the Haye shellacking haunts me still.

yeh, I hate looking at it, but can't stop looking

I can’t remember that. Any YouTube?

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:40 Allow me to expand a little. Most people have a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio of 1:1. Analysing this ratio is how testers determine whether a boxer is cheating or not. If the first number is higher than the second number it is likely the boxer is taking steroids. However, because there are 'genetic freaks' who are natural outliers, VADA allow for a ratio of up to 4:1 to make sure everybody is covered for genetic anomalies.

What does this mean?

You will not fail a drug test unless your ratio is 5:1 or higher.

What does this mean?

You are (although it goes unsaid) allowed to take testosterone as long as you keep your ratio at 4:1 or lower.

This is easy to do but you need to have suppliers and administers you trust to get it right, perhaps a foreign doctor, perhaps a well educated (in the subject) trainer, etc....

If you are not doing this you will be at a huge disadvantage because most top fighters are doing this. Sad but true.

In other words, VADA testing is not a test of whether you take drugs or not. It is a test to make sure you don't take too many drugs.

polecateddy wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 15:07

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:40 Allow me to expand a little. Most people have a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio of 1:1. Analysing this ratio is how testers determine whether a boxer is cheating or not. If the first number is higher than the second number it is likely the boxer is taking steroids. However, because there are 'genetic freaks' who are natural outliers, VADA allow for a ratio of up to 4:1 to make sure everybody is covered for genetic anomalies.

What does this mean?

You will not fail a drug test unless your ratio is 5:1 or higher.

What does this mean?

You are (although it goes unsaid) allowed to take testosterone as long as you keep your ratio at 4:1 or lower.

This is easy to do but you need to have suppliers and administers you trust to get it right, perhaps a foreign doctor, perhaps a well educated (in the subject) trainer, etc....

If you are not doing this you will be at a huge disadvantage because most top fighters are doing this. Sad but true.

In other words, VADA testing is not a test of whether you take drugs or not. It is a test to make sure you don't take too many drugs.

Those ratios are quite significant. Often with 'natural bodybuilding' contests they will have these similar allowance for 6:1 testosterone levels, and it's becomes open season on PED abuse. I'm not sure if USADA also push 4:1 now too, which meant I think a lot of UFC fighters bodies melted overnight almost without their normal test - Belfort and others.

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 15:14

polecateddy wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 15:07

589555 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 11:40 Allow me to expand a little. Most people have a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio of 1:1. Analysing this ratio is how testers determine whether a boxer is cheating or not. If the first number is higher than the second number it is likely the boxer is taking steroids. However, because there are 'genetic freaks' who are natural outliers, VADA allow for a ratio of up to 4:1 to make sure everybody is covered for genetic anomalies.

What does this mean?

You will not fail a drug test unless your ratio is 5:1 or higher.

What does this mean?

You are (although it goes unsaid) allowed to take testosterone as long as you keep your ratio at 4:1 or lower.

This is easy to do but you need to have suppliers and administers you trust to get it right, perhaps a foreign doctor, perhaps a well educated (in the subject) trainer, etc....

If you are not doing this you will be at a huge disadvantage because most top fighters are doing this. Sad but true.

In other words, VADA testing is not a test of whether you take drugs or not. It is a test to make sure you don't take too many drugs.

Those ratios are quite significant. Often with 'natural bodybuilding' contests they will have these similar allowance for 6:1 testosterone levels, and it's becomes open season on PED abuse. I'm not sure if USADA also push 4:1 now too, which meant I think a lot of UFC fighters bodies melted overnight almost without their normal test - Belfort and others.

Yes, USADA is 4:1 too. Their ratios are the same as WADA's. You are right about UFC, some of those lads were bang at it, it was a free for all. Dropping back to 4:1 made a big difference. They were still up on (almost all) clean athletes though.