BoxRec

It’s just pure incompetence and arrogance.
Iain John Lewis.
How he got that score I cannot figure it out.
He was scoring a fight for the undisputed given his previous form.
That’s where the issue lies.

Coco wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:15 I don't reckon any of the judges have big houses and flash cars.

If someone was genuinely bent, the money which would change hands would be enormous to fix a fight.

It's more like they know what side there bread is buttered on, and it keeps them working regular.

Exactly. In every job I’ve ever worked, there’s been, shall we say, unwritten rules. Everyone knows the score, nothing is specified, because it doesn’t need to be. Don’t rock the boat and don’t shine a light where it isn’t wanted, and everyone is happy and business continues to flow.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Feb 2022, 19:59 and ward of course is employed by espn, which has a huge deal with josh's promoter

It's ironic that Ward didn't score it to the guy who grabbed/held/spoiled.

That's not being disparaging to Catterall he did what he had to do to win and was effective.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:22

Coco wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:15 I don't reckon any of the judges have big houses and flash cars.

If someone was genuinely bent, the money which would change hands would be enormous to fix a fight.

It's more like they know what side there bread is buttered on, and it keeps them working regular.

Exactly. In every job I’ve ever worked, there’s been, shall we say, unwritten rules. Everyone knows the score, nothing is specified, because it doesn’t need to be. Don’t rock the boat and don’t shine a light where it isn’t wanted, and everyone is happy and business continues to flow.

And in this case, voting for catterall would scupper the huge fight against Crawford.

Isn’t the promoter responsible for the hospitality of the officials?

liamlion wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:49 Isn’t the promoter responsible for the hospitality of the officials?

Yes

My social media, which is mainly boxing people, is in meltdown over this. There will be a backlash.

Not sure any of them were paid off. One of the top P4P fighters was up against a solid but unspectacular opponent who wasn’t expected to cause too many problems for the champion, so surely there was no need for any sort of pay off since the result was never in doubt?

I just see it as gross incompetence with a touch of unconscious bias towards the home favourite.

Whatever, this type of thing is happening too often and ruining a great sport. The fact that we all think someone is going to be robbed is a sad indictment of boxing and the lack of condemnation from the BBBoC is criminal.

Last night was perhaps the worst robbery I’ve seen in recent years and we’ve seen quite a few.

The judges need to be held accountable and I’d also like Marcus McDonnell to be ticked off for his performance as I thought he handled the bout appallingly.

Still, I’ll be watching the Matchroom card later…

Coco wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:52

liamlion wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:49 Isn’t the promoter responsible for the hospitality of the officials?

Yes

Possible conflict of interest right there.

Treat officials like kings, giving them best hospitality including travel, hotels and food and potentially they will feel indebted to the promoter and possibly influenced in how they score the fight.

There is no argument to suggest Taylor was a possible winner. It wasn’t close.

liamlion wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 08:03

Coco wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:52

liamlion wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:49 Isn’t the promoter responsible for the hospitality of the officials?

Yes

Possible conflict of interest right there.

Treat officials like kings, giving them best hospitality including travel, hotels and food and potentially they will feel indebted to the promoter and possibly influenced in how they score the fight.

There is no argument to suggest Taylor was a possible winner. It wasn’t close.

That's exactly what it is, they want to keep getting work and perks it's terrible

Putting this in a few threads on here as it's warrented. I've been developing this alternative method of scoring, a digitalised solution to improve the judging of boxing, simply by expanding on the existing system. Just an extra few metrics gives a more detailed scorecard, adds reasoning to the rounds, and if was utilised by professional officials would add some transparency and accountability.

I've been trying to gain traction of this for years, it's really hard to get it out there. Last year I wrote a blog article, which expands on the above. it explains the system and explains why it CAN be easily implementable (instead of calling for a total overhaul of the existing system, because that's never going to happen).

https://fight-score.com/blog/a-call-for ... ing-system
It's unlikely things would ever change, but with enough fury and backlash, surely fight fans could have that effect?
This is probably the biggest thing hurting the sport at the moment, it's almost a weekly occurance where we are discussion a bullshit scorecard or full corrupt decision

Ye I don’t think anyone actually gets paid off, they simply know what is expected and what keeps the show moving in the direction that benefits those at the top. And in doing so they keep their own noses in the trough.

Not sure it should be a surprise in a sport where the fighters do it themselves and everyone accepts it. A journeyman doesn’t get paid off but he knows his role and if he wants to work regularly he doesn’t go bashing up prospects or local big ticket sellers.

liamlion wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 08:03

Coco wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:52

liamlion wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:49 Isn’t the promoter responsible for the hospitality of the officials?

Yes

Possible conflict of interest right there.

Treat officials like kings, giving them best hospitality including travel, hotels and food and potentially they will feel indebted to the promoter and possibly influenced in how they score the fight.

There is no argument to suggest Taylor was a possible winner. It wasn’t close.

Are officials' fees paid directly by the promoter, or supplied via the board ?

martinmrts wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 08:29

liamlion wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 08:03

Coco wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 07:52

Yes

Possible conflict of interest right there.

Treat officials like kings, giving them best hospitality including travel, hotels and food and potentially they will feel indebted to the promoter and possibly influenced in how they score the fight.

There is no argument to suggest Taylor was a possible winner. It wasn’t close.

Are officials' fees paid directly by the promoter, or supplied via the board ?

The board pays

Why do you have to rip the title away from the champion? It’s balls!!! If you win the fight then you win, it’s like saying you can’t win the Word Cup by 1 0 against the defending champions you must win 4 0, I’ve never heard owt like it.

Foggy wrote: ↑27 Feb 2022, 09:00 Why do you have to rip the title away from the champion? It’s balls!!! If you win the fight then you win, it’s like saying you can’t win the Word Cup by 1 0 against the defending champions you must win 4 0, I’ve never heard owt like it.

Unfortunately in boxing the promoters boy is 4-6 rounds up before they start.

Therefore yes, you do need to rip the title away from the champ.

It goes back to the days of one champ, where the title actually meant something. One king in each of the 8 weight classes meant that those 8 fighters were exceptional. And the honour of the championship was keenly respected. When the title changed hands it was a big deal. History was written.

We've all seen fights in which rounds are hard to score. You can make a case for both men. In other words, it can come down to personal preference. Back in the day it didn't seem right to change the champion based upon personal preference, so this idea came about that if you were in doubt then the right thing, for the sanctity of the prestigious world title, was to favour the champ. Otherwise the title would be cheapened.

Nobody questioned this view because of the profound respect for the championship belt.

Now there are likely 100+ recognised world titles. We live in a throwaway world and for many fans it doesn't seem relevant.

4 judges and ref all score. From the five cards each boxer loses the highest score and the lowest score. Add them up and you have the winner.
For last night we had;
IJL 114-111
VL 113-112
HF 112-113
if we had the ref scoring say; 111-114 and a fourth judge 111-114 (which is what I had it) then the scores would be;
Josh
114 not counted
113
112
111 not counted
111
TOTAL 336

Jack
111 not counted
112
113
114 not counted
114
TOTAL 339
IJL's score card would have been completely discounted and right man wins.
Much harder to get wild decisions if the best and worst scores are not counted and you have 5 scores instead of 3.
Every angle of the fight is covered from each side plus the man in the middle.

Surely better than the current system.

A number of good posts on this thread.

One of the many arguments on scoring fights is that the judges can be influenced/swayed by those close to ringside like the fighters corners and those supporting the fighters inner ringside and the tv commentators.

A suggestion of judges wearing headphones may help i have seen some judges abroad do this.

Scoring needs to be transparent and should me made known to the crowd and the media on a big scoreboard during the fight itself. What other sports besides boxing dont have an ongoing score tally (football etc) or a visual impression as to who is actually winning (athletics etc).