BoxRec

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 12:12 Again with the "demands."
p s "Leonard beat Hagler unfair and unsquare". All the whining the world doesn't change that.

All fixed. The only way he could have been the better man was when he demanded and received, numerous concessions from his opponent. It was either that or no fight. Hagler should have told him to either fight like a man or F right off

Concessions If only Caveman Lee, Wilford Scypion, Mustafa Hamsho, Juan Roldan,etc, would have thought of that, how different boxing history might have been.

I can't believe this fight was 35 years ago.

I shan't add anything else as my thoughts are on record numerous times over the years and they haven't changed.

When the final bell went on Hagler-Duran, Roberto went over to Leonard ringside and said, "You can beat him."

Leonard had started to think about the comeback and invited Hagler to one of his restaurants. Ray was preparing to comeback but nobody knew. He asked Hagler about his plans. Hagler said that he was going to retire. He pointed to the scar tissue above his eyes. Ray says that he knew then he could beat him. He knew Marvin was one foot out of the game already.

bollocks wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 17:40

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 12:12 Again with the "demands."
p s "Leonard beat Hagler unfair and unsquare". All the whining the world doesn't change that.

All fixed. The only way he could have been the better man was when he demanded and received, numerous concessions from his opponent. It was either that or no fight. Hagler should have told him to either fight like a man or F right off

Would you turn down a career high payday of $11 million in 1987 for a fight that looked easy on paper because your opponent wanted bigger gloves and a large ring?

Syntax Error wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 13:07

bollocks wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 17:40

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 12:12 Again with the "demands."
p s "Leonard beat Hagler unfair and unsquare". All the whining the world doesn't change that.

All fixed. The only way he could have been the better man was when he demanded and received, numerous concessions from his opponent. It was either that or no fight. Hagler should have told him to either fight like a man or F right off

Would you turn down a career high payday of $11 million in 1987 for a fight that looked easy on paper because your opponent wanted bigger gloves and a large ring?

No I wouldn't. Hagler was desperate to fight leonard and probably didn't want to believe that he was no longer the fighter he once was. But it says everything about the respective mindsets of Hagler and Leonard doesn't it...one a no frills warrior who basically cleaned out his division before winning the title and fought eveyone else after it, and the other a fighter that turned into a cherry picking prima donna in the second half of his career, who wouldn't fight unless he was given concessions which amounted to advantages. Leonard's carry on in the later part of his career has helpeed to bring us to the absolute joke that was Mayweather V McGregor. No wonder people have walked away from the boxing caper in droves

clivelawrence wrote: ↑15 Apr 2022, 16:20 Irrespective of backstories and third hand gossip there was something amiss with Hagler in this fight. He just candidly didnt perform as the Hagler we knew, Leonard did and quite rightly got the nod. Bad day at the office, overawed at the occasion who knows, but a p!ss poor representation of the Hagler we once knew. Personally feel Hagler for whatever reason suffered from stage fright that night, was a shadow of the boxer we were expecting to see.

It was often said in the build-up that Marvin did relatively struggle with Vito and Duran, and maybe it was the occasion that got to him on those nights. I think it did. I think he got a lot of things wrong on the night. I also think that the ghost of "No Mas" made Leonard the most intimidating man in boxing. It was enough to lead Marvin to second guess himself.

bollocks wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 14:27

Syntax Error wrote: ↑25 Apr 2022, 13:07

bollocks wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022, 17:40

All fixed. The only way he could have been the better man was when he demanded and received, numerous concessions from his opponent. It was either that or no fight. Hagler should have told him to either fight like a man or F right off

Would you turn down a career high payday of $11 million in 1987 for a fight that looked easy on paper because your opponent wanted bigger gloves and a large ring?

No I wouldn't. Hagler was desperate to fight leonard and probably didn't want to believe that he was no longer the fighter he once was. But it says everything about the respective mindsets of Hagler and Leonard doesn't it...one a no frills warrior who basically cleaned out his division before winning the title and fought eveyone else after it, and the other a fighter that turned into a cherry picking prima donna in the second half of his career, who wouldn't fight unless he was given concessions which amounted to advantages. Leonard's carry on in the later part of his career has helpeed to bring us to the absolute joke that was Mayweather V McGregor. No wonder people have walked away from the boxing caper in droves

I can see what you're saying.

I am an SRL fan, but some of his antics in later career were a tad cynical and leave a bitter taste.

It's a shame really because Leonard was better than that.

He had the heart of a lion and a phenomenal skillset to back it up; he really didn't need to do it.

What did he do? What are we really talking about here?
Bigger gloves, bigger ring? So what. When do we ever talk about these thing besides this fight? Never.

They're just butthurt about a result they don't like and grasping at stupid excuses to say the result doesn't count.

I mean SRL trained for the fight without the media reporting his every move.
That's cheating.
Hagler should not have to prepare for opponents that show up in shape and with a game plan.

Hagler is in the top three all time greats

He retired when he lost, end of

Whether he was robbed by a few calzaghe slaps is neither here nor there.

I re-watched this the other night. First time I have watched with American commentary.

A few things I noticed that surprised me.

- It's a better fight than I remembered.
- Hagler hurts Leonard early with an uppercut early on. I think it's the third.
- Leonard hits Hagler after the bell 3 times. Eventually Hagler does it back after the ref does nothing.
- He also lands plenty of low blows, Hagler gets frustrated that the ref still does nothing.
- Ray walks Hagler onto a lot of right hands. Lands them pretty cleanly.
- Leonard is able to have his own way and dictate the action most of the time.
- Later on Ray definitely plays to the crowd and uses them very cleverly.
- Hagler's trademark spring-and-swing is ineffective. He seems too cautious.
- I think Marvin knows he's behind.

7-5 Leonard.