BoxRec

Posted: **10 May 2022, 16:48**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 May 2022, 12:27
tiny_acres wrote: ↑10 May 2022, 11:06 Far from top ten of all time but he is an all time great.
Certain first ballot hall of famer
Right now I consider the Top 4 of the 21st century to be

1. Mayweather
2. Pac
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Canelo

Canelo is getting really close to closing in on B-Hop, and a few more marquee wins puts him above him IMO.

I would have to agree with you

Posted: **10 May 2022, 17:21**

Fool the casuals ? As if the casuals have even heard of Canelo ! He’s a superb fighter and will go down as a great

Posted: **11 May 2022, 12:40**

Indeed Canelo barely can touch the feet of ATG's like Andrade, Charlito or Benavidez in terms of quality opposition.

Posted: **11 May 2022, 14:46**

Bandog wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 18:59 All you have to do is fool the casual fans. After all, it's mostly their money. Canelo's last 10-12 yrs in a nutshell:

Josito Lopez was a 140lber.

Khan was a 147lber. Ahead but got KOd.

Maywether and Mosley were 147 and past their prime, May was 36 and SSM 39-40. Floyd made Canelo look at times like he'd never boxed before. 152 catchweight, after Canelo offered to go to 150 earlier that year.

Kirkland, and Anguelo had to cut 40lbs on short notice, slow plodders perfect for Canelo's style.

Canelo had to litterally be dragged in the ring to fight Lara, and got embarrassed at times, got out boxed, out landed, but won.

Trout had the open scoring bs, and was a close fight and fought different because of it.

Fielding, Yildrim, and JCC jr? I won't even mention them.

GGG beat Canelo 2x if your honest, or at least one and a draw. Canelo avoided GGG until he was 36 and looked vulnerable.

Plant was a decent win, but largley untested.

Jacobs was on the decline too, so add him to your resume, kind of like a Mosley win.

BJS avoided Andrade, and was inactive, so decent win.

Kovalev was semi-shot and drained with the rehydration clause.

For 10 years, at the same weights, Canelo refused to unify and fight Andrade. He couldn't without it. He jumped at the fight with Smith when Andrade was stripped.
Wonder why? He'd get out- boxed like he did with Bivol. Maybe not? He doesn't want to know. Andrade is a bigger, stronger, better version of Lara, and also a SP.

Now he's between a rock and a hard place. 168? He has to fight Bivol, Benevidez, Andrade, or Mall Charlo. I think he loses all.

Maybe he should take a couple years off and fight Beterbeiv if he beats JSjr..wait til he gets 39-40. Or retire.

If I were Canelo, I'd take the GGG fight and retire. No one would blame him. I don't think his ego will allow it though. He's still a prime age.

I do think the Canelo bubble has oficially popped though. Apologies for the wordy response. Not a Canelo hater, think he's a great boxer, just not as great as most people think, and hasn't improved his skills like people think either. The "Canelo beating Usyk" made me laugh, but almost throw up too.

He's made a great living fighting the right guys, at the right weights, at the right times, and having judges help him out in tough fights. I doubt if his ego could handle 2 losses in a row to anyone.

Good summing up.

Canelo can't be an all time great.

Not with all of that dodgy NSAC judging, the lack of proper testing, the contract squeezing cherry picking and timing out of ageing opponents, the fawning sanctioning bodies and media etc.

However, it would silly to deny that he's brought a lot of money and attention to the sport in a time where post Pacquiao, there was only Anthony Joshua who could claim equal popularity.

He's also been relatively busy compared to many of the belt sitters we see elsewhere, so we should be thankful for that.

He's certainly a modern great, but I'm not really too sure what that really means nowadays. However, he's hardly finished yet, and how he responds to the Bivol defeat will define his legacy.

It's always amazing how opinions in boxing can so quickly change, almost overnight, isn't it?

Posted: **11 May 2022, 23:13**

I will never believe Canelo is an all time great. If he is an ATG, then Golovkin is a super ATG.

Posted: **12 May 2022, 03:07**

RScarf1 wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 23:13 I will never believe Canelo is an all time great. If he is an ATG, then Golovkin is a super ATG.

Could you imagine how GGG's wins resume would've looked if his network stablemates like Martinez, JCCJr and Cotto would've had the guts to fight him?

Posted: **12 May 2022, 05:27**

apollo creed wrote: ↑12 May 2022, 03:07
RScarf1 wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 23:13 I will never believe Canelo is an all time great. If he is an ATG, then Golovkin is a super ATG.
Could you imagine how GGG's wins resume would've looked if his network stablemates like Martinez, JCCJr and Cotto would've had the guts to fight him?

Some people including in the media criticized his resume, but I don’t think he ducked anyone. He made his title defenses. He is 40 years old and willing to fight Canelo for a third time.

Posted: **13 May 2022, 09:58**

RScarf1 wrote: ↑12 May 2022, 05:27
apollo creed wrote: ↑12 May 2022, 03:07
RScarf1 wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 23:13 I will never believe Canelo is an all time great. If he is an ATG, then Golovkin is a super ATG.
Could you imagine how GGG's wins resume would've looked if his network stablemates like Martinez, JCCJr and Cotto would've had the guts to fight him?
Some people including in the media criticized his resume, but I don’t think he ducked anyone. He made his title defenses. He is 40 years old and willing to fight Canelo for a third time.

I think if the ages of the two fighters were switched, GGG would have dominated and possibly stopped Canelo in their first 2 fights. My opinion. It seemed Canelo waited for GGG to look vulnerable before fighting him.

Posted: **13 May 2022, 10:37**

Bandog wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 09:58
RScarf1 wrote: ↑12 May 2022, 05:27
apollo creed wrote: ↑12 May 2022, 03:07

Could you imagine how GGG's wins resume would've looked if his network stablemates like Martinez, JCCJr and Cotto would've had the guts to fight him?
Some people including in the media criticized his resume, but I don’t think he ducked anyone. He made his title defenses. He is 40 years old and willing to fight Canelo for a third time.
I think if the ages of the two fighters were switched, GGG would have dominated and possibly stopped Canelo in their first 2 fights. My opinion. It seemed Canelo waited for GGG to look vulnerable before fighting him.

27 y/o GGG vs 35 y/o Canelo @160:box:

Canelo would get beaten or stopped.

Posted: **13 May 2022, 14:50**

My goodness, how can anyone be this bitter about what Canelo has done as reigning P4P King? Think about what our last P4P King did with his reign…Floyd NEVER came close to the tests that Canelo has attempted and mostly succeeded at. Did Floyd ever jump up in any weight class and take on the lineal champion at a weight not his own? No. The answer is NO. Canelo just happened to bite off more than he could chew with Bivol. And I honestly wouldn’t bet against Canelo in the rematch, that I honestly hope happens, instead of a 3rd fight with GGG. And I’m a GGG fan first and foremost.

Nah, I think this post is crap. Canelo doesn’t deserve this at all. He’s been a balls out P4P King and just casted his bate too far out this time. This criticism feels forced and personal. Canelo deserves praise for what he’s accomplished during his run on top, not this absolute garbage. This guy’s dead to me. Whoever he is.

Posted: **13 May 2022, 16:21**

Canelo is daring to be great.

The trend of these days for fighters is to cherrypick and protect their 0.

Posted: **13 May 2022, 18:40**

caldo2025 wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 14:50Did Floyd ever jump up in any weight class and take on the lineal champion at a weight not his own?

Floyd, to be fair, actually was pretty quick to go after the big swinging dick after moving up to a new weight class. Second lightweight opponent was WBC champ Castillo (who'd beaten Stevie Johnston twice, but for a scorecard error). Second welterweight opponent was IBF champ Judah (who'd beaten Spinks), followed by WBC/IBA/IBO champ Baldomir (who'd beaten Judah). First light middleweight fights were P4P legacy match with De la Hoya, then WBC/WBA champ Canelo (who'd beaten Mosley, Trout, and Cintron).

Posted: **13 May 2022, 20:33**

I'm not a fan of Canelo, but the guy fought literally everyone. These are risks that Mayweather never took. He dared to be great and lost. You lose if you keep taking challenges, which is why Mayweather kept his 0 for so long (and people forget that Castillo got robbed).

Posted: **13 May 2022, 21:34**

apollo creed wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 10:37
Bandog wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 09:58I think if the ages of the two fighters were switched, GGG would have dominated and possibly stopped Canelo in their first 2 fights. My opinion. It seemed Canelo waited for GGG to look vulnerable before fighting him.

27 y/o GGG vs 35 y/o Canelo @160:box:

Canelo would get beaten or stopped.

I agree. In the real world though, I don't think Canelo is going to be boxing at age 35. I think he will retire in one or two years.

Posted: **14 May 2022, 18:00**

for me he is ,always faced the champions,has gone up in weights to face fighters bigger and stronger than him , always goes in to win ,i think he is up there with anyone top class saul

Posted: **14 May 2022, 21:04**

Was Canelo "daring to be great"? Or perhaps delusional of his ability to win over virtually anyone?

Canelo is one of the greatest boxers of our time, but not the greatest. Floyd and Bivol showed us that. He is human after all.

Posted: **15 May 2022, 10:51**

squiggy wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 18:40
caldo2025 wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 14:50Did Floyd ever jump up in any weight class and take on the lineal champion at a weight not his own?
Floyd, to be fair, actually was pretty quick to go after the big swinging dick after moving up to a new weight class. Second lightweight opponent was WBC champ Castillo (who'd beaten Stevie Johnston twice, but for a scorecard error). Second welterweight opponent was IBF champ Judah (who'd beaten Spinks), followed by WBC/IBA/IBO champ Baldomir (who'd beaten Judah). First light middleweight fights were P4P legacy match with De la Hoya, then WBC/WBA champ Canelo (who'd beaten Mosley, Trout, and Cintron).

All due respect, we aren’t talking apples/apples. Canelo’s hit list over the last 5 years is honestly unparalleled imo. The issue is that fans forget about how fantastic these boxers were prior to Canelo defeating them so fantastically. C. Smith was on many legitimate P4P lists after becoming lineal champ at 168. The beating Canelo put on him was brutal. He hugged for 5 rounds to be able to brag at Sunday dinner but has only one fight since and will never see the limelight again. Kovalev, BJS, Plant and GGG fights. Come on, man. In no stretch has Floyd, or anyone else for that matter, rifled through such a gauntlet like Canelo has the last 5 years.

Again, I’m no Canelo fan but I have to admire what he’s done. And one more again, I am betting on Canelo to beat Bivol if that fight proceeds to be made instead of GGG.

Posted: **15 May 2022, 11:45**

RScarf1 wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 21:34
apollo creed wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 10:37
Bandog wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 09:58I think if the ages of the two fighters were switched, GGG would have dominated and possibly stopped Canelo in their first 2 fights. My opinion. It seemed Canelo waited for GGG to look vulnerable before fighting him.

27 y/o GGG vs 35 y/o Canelo @160:box:

Canelo would get beaten or stopped.
I agree. In the real world though, I don't think Canelo is going to be boxing at age 35. I think he will retire in one or two years.

Perspective is extremely useful when comparing careers, but is almost always ignored by some fans.

Especially those that keep falling for the 'latest and greatest' hype that is often bandied about.

It wasn't that long ago even here, that Anthony Joshua was being hailed as history's best ever heavyweight.

Let's face it, a hypothetical 27 year old GGG against a 35 year old Canelo would hardly be worth watching, would it?

As for Canelo, well he should be judged against his contemporaries, against his time.

Against that lowly background, and these are hardly boxing's glory days are they, Canelo hasn't done too badly, has he?

It's a real pity that that the 2 of the biggest stars (Canelo + Fury) since Mayweather have resolutely stuck to the same cold calculating game plan which inevitably has to hurt their lasting legacy.

Ironically, it was this push to establish some kind of lasting legacy that was partially the reason for Canelo fighting Bivol.

Posted: **15 May 2022, 12:53**

He certainly one of the top ten best boxers I have seen in the passed 30 years. In the last decade or so he's certainly got the claim of being one of the top five right behind Mayweather and Pacquiao. But of all time? Eh.

It's difficult to gauge people since the 1990s in my opinion because people fight so less often than ever before. I mean how the hell do you compare somebody like Canelo to somebody like Ray Robinson who fought Jake LaMotta five times? And only one of those was for the title.

Fighters in earlier eras were far more active and had a much tougher road to get to greatness than guys today. I'm not going to say that Canelo wouldn't be able to compete with guys like that, but strictly on volume (# of fights) and quality opposition there are many people well ahead of Canelo, Mayweather, Pacquiao, etc--- where I find it kind of laughable when people want to say that these guys today are in the same stratosphere as Henry Armstrong or Jimmy Wilde or Bob Fitzsimmons, etc.

Posted: **15 May 2022, 13:30**

caldo2025 wrote: ↑15 May 2022, 10:51
squiggy wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 18:40
caldo2025 wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 14:50Did Floyd ever jump up in any weight class and take on the lineal champion at a weight not his own?
Floyd, to be fair, actually was pretty quick to go after the big swinging dick after moving up to a new weight class. Second lightweight opponent was WBC champ Castillo (who'd beaten Stevie Johnston twice, but for a scorecard error). Second welterweight opponent was IBF champ Judah (who'd beaten Spinks), followed by WBC/IBA/IBO champ Baldomir (who'd beaten Judah). First light middleweight fights were P4P legacy match with De la Hoya, then WBC/WBA champ Canelo (who'd beaten Mosley, Trout, and Cintron).
All due respect, we aren’t talking apples/apples. Canelo’s hit list over the last 5 years is honestly unparalleled imo. The issue is that fans forget about how fantastic these boxers were prior to Canelo defeating them so fantastically. C. Smith was on many legitimate P4P lists after becoming lineal champ at 168. The beating Canelo put on him was brutal. He hugged for 5 rounds to be able to brag at Sunday dinner but has only one fight since and will never see the limelight again. Kovalev, BJS, Plant and GGG fights. Come on, man. In no stretch has Floyd, or anyone else for that matter, rifled through such a gauntlet like Canelo has the last 5 years.

Again, I’m no Canelo fan but I have to admire what he’s done. And one more again, I am betting on Canelo to beat Bivol if that fight proceeds to be made instead of GGG.

I like this comment but you can’t compare what Floyd did in 5 years and what Canelo has done in 5 years,
In 5 years Floyd fought Berto, Pacquiao, Maidana 2x, Canelo, Guererro, Cotto, Ortiz and Mosley.
But yeah Canelo definitely 3rd best fighter p4p in last 20 years.

Posted: **16 May 2022, 17:42**

Mangoraj wrote: ↑15 May 2022, 13:30
caldo2025 wrote: ↑15 May 2022, 10:51
squiggy wrote: ↑13 May 2022, 18:40

Floyd, to be fair, actually was pretty quick to go after the big swinging dick after moving up to a new weight class. Second lightweight opponent was WBC champ Castillo (who'd beaten Stevie Johnston twice, but for a scorecard error). Second welterweight opponent was IBF champ Judah (who'd beaten Spinks), followed by WBC/IBA/IBO champ Baldomir (who'd beaten Judah). First light middleweight fights were P4P legacy match with De la Hoya, then WBC/WBA champ Canelo (who'd beaten Mosley, Trout, and Cintron).
All due respect, we aren’t talking apples/apples. Canelo’s hit list over the last 5 years is honestly unparalleled imo. The issue is that fans forget about how fantastic these boxers were prior to Canelo defeating them so fantastically. C. Smith was on many legitimate P4P lists after becoming lineal champ at 168. The beating Canelo put on him was brutal. He hugged for 5 rounds to be able to brag at Sunday dinner but has only one fight since and will never see the limelight again. Kovalev, BJS, Plant and GGG fights. Come on, man. In no stretch has Floyd, or anyone else for that matter, rifled through such a gauntlet like Canelo has the last 5 years.

Again, I’m no Canelo fan but I have to admire what he’s done. And one more again, I am betting on Canelo to beat Bivol if that fight proceeds to be made instead of GGG.
I like this comment but you can’t compare what Floyd did in 5 years and what Canelo has done in 5 years,
In 5 years Floyd fought Berto, Pacquiao, Maidana 2x, Canelo, Guererro, Cotto, Ortiz and Mosley.
But yeah Canelo definitely 3rd best fighter p4p in last 20 years.

Remember that Rocky Fielding and Yildrim were within that timeframe. Not sure about Amir Khan or JCC Jr. It wasn't like he fought the top guys every fight. The guys Floyd fought, basically all you mentioned were #1 or #2 ranked welters at the time, aside from Berto. Canelo was young in ageb but was a 43 fight veteran when he fought Floyd.

One thing that gave Canelo the illusion he could beat Bivol was when he beat a semi shot Kovelev with a rehydration clause. He turned down $40 mil to fight Andrade and got $35 mil for Kovalev.

Posted: **16 May 2022, 18:45**

Bandog wrote: ↑16 May 2022, 17:42
Mangoraj wrote: ↑15 May 2022, 13:30
caldo2025 wrote: ↑15 May 2022, 10:51

All due respect, we aren’t talking apples/apples. Canelo’s hit list over the last 5 years is honestly unparalleled imo. The issue is that fans forget about how fantastic these boxers were prior to Canelo defeating them so fantastically. C. Smith was on many legitimate P4P lists after becoming lineal champ at 168. The beating Canelo put on him was brutal. He hugged for 5 rounds to be able to brag at Sunday dinner but has only one fight since and will never see the limelight again. Kovalev, BJS, Plant and GGG fights. Come on, man. In no stretch has Floyd, or anyone else for that matter, rifled through such a gauntlet like Canelo has the last 5 years.

Again, I’m no Canelo fan but I have to admire what he’s done. And one more again, I am betting on Canelo to beat Bivol if that fight proceeds to be made instead of GGG.
I like this comment but you can’t compare what Floyd did in 5 years and what Canelo has done in 5 years,
In 5 years Floyd fought Berto, Pacquiao, Maidana 2x, Canelo, Guererro, Cotto, Ortiz and Mosley.
But yeah Canelo definitely 3rd best fighter p4p in last 20 years.
Remember that Rocky Fielding and Yildrim were within that timeframe. Not sure about Amir Khan or JCC Jr. It wasn't like he fought the top guys every fight. The guys Floyd fought, basically all you mentioned were #1 or #2 ranked welters at the time, aside from Berto. Canelo was young in ageb but was a 43 fight veteran when he fought Floyd.

One thing that gave Canelo the illusion he could beat Bivol was when he beat a semi shot Kovelev with a rehydration clause. He turned down $40 mil to fight Andrade and got $35 mil for Kovalev.

I wouldn't bet against Canelo in a rematch. There are adjustments he can make to beat Bivol.

Posted: **16 May 2022, 18:49**

knocking canelo's opposition is lol. but but but floyd fought better! why do some ppl always cock measure him with floyd? both are studs

Posted: **16 May 2022, 18:52**

oogiebe wrote: ↑16 May 2022, 18:45
Bandog wrote: ↑16 May 2022, 17:42
Mangoraj wrote: ↑15 May 2022, 13:30

I like this comment but you can’t compare what Floyd did in 5 years and what Canelo has done in 5 years,
In 5 years Floyd fought Berto, Pacquiao, Maidana 2x, Canelo, Guererro, Cotto, Ortiz and Mosley.
But yeah Canelo definitely 3rd best fighter p4p in last 20 years.
Remember that Rocky Fielding and Yildrim were within that timeframe. Not sure about Amir Khan or JCC Jr. It wasn't like he fought the top guys every fight. The guys Floyd fought, basically all you mentioned were #1 or #2 ranked welters at the time, aside from Berto. Canelo was young in ageb but was a 43 fight veteran when he fought Floyd.

One thing that gave Canelo the illusion he could beat Bivol was when he beat a semi shot Kovelev with a rehydration clause. He turned down $40 mil to fight Andrade and got $35 mil for Kovalev.
I wouldn't bet against Canelo in a rematch. There are adjustments he can make to beat Bivol.

i think bivol is just wrong for canelo, but i defo think on a better night that canelo could win another round or two - might be all he needs to get the win considering he only won a legit 2-3 rounds yet still almost got a draw

if i was bivol and thinking competively rather than just financially, i would be super weary of fighting canelo again, because the bar is set so low for canelo to get the decision. dimmy pretty much dominated and only got the absolute minimum 115-113 win.

Posted: **16 May 2022, 18:58**

oogiebe wrote: ↑16 May 2022, 18:45
Bandog wrote: ↑16 May 2022, 17:42
Mangoraj wrote: ↑15 May 2022, 13:30

I like this comment but you can’t compare what Floyd did in 5 years and what Canelo has done in 5 years,
In 5 years Floyd fought Berto, Pacquiao, Maidana 2x, Canelo, Guererro, Cotto, Ortiz and Mosley.
But yeah Canelo definitely 3rd best fighter p4p in last 20 years.
Remember that Rocky Fielding and Yildrim were within that timeframe. Not sure about Amir Khan or JCC Jr. It wasn't like he fought the top guys every fight. The guys Floyd fought, basically all you mentioned were #1 or #2 ranked welters at the time, aside from Berto. Canelo was young in ageb but was a 43 fight veteran when he fought Floyd.

One thing that gave Canelo the illusion he could beat Bivol was when he beat a semi shot Kovelev with a rehydration clause. He turned down $40 mil to fight Andrade and got $35 mil for Kovalev.
I wouldn't bet against Canelo in a rematch. There are adjustments he can make to beat Bivol.

Of course you are right about Canelo winning. He was one round away from a draw in this fight. Whether he deserves the win is another thing. Well known corrupt judges. The scores were as inaccurate as the fight with Floyd, and all 3 judges should be banned. Neither were all that close. Smh

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