BoxRec

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:12 leo layed sonny da f@ck out, brutal ko wasnt it

That it was.

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:06

Tony1244 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:03 Liston wanted to fight Quarry badly. He never turned Jerry down.

Really hard to predict how he would have done against those guys because if I was to be honest, I would have favored him over Leotis Martin.

He was beating Martin and some say on his way in for the kill when he got tagged.

Obviously you are either deluded or havent seen the fight. He wasnt going in for the kill. His nose was broken and he looked like a scared little boy by the time Martin laid his ass out for several minutes. Its no coincidence that Liston was stopped the first time he fought someone in years who was rated inside the top 5.

klompton wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 16:27

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:06

Tony1244 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:03 Liston wanted to fight Quarry badly. He never turned Jerry down.

Really hard to predict how he would have done against those guys because if I was to be honest, I would have favored him over Leotis Martin.

He was beating Martin and some say on his way in for the kill when he got tagged.

Obviously you are either deluded or havent seen the fight. He wasnt going in for the kill. His nose was broken and he looked like a scared little boy by the time Martin laid his ass out for several minutes. Its no coincidence that Liston was stopped the first time he fought someone in years who was rated inside the top 5.

I have seen the fight. Liston was ahead entering the 9th. He'd knocked down Martin in the fourth (I think) and hurt him a couple of times as well. Liston seemed to gas at the end, and was caught flush coming in when both guys were in the middle of the ring.

Mr. Kompton, you are are obviously a Liston hater and a self-styled boxing expert. However; you're annoying AF!

Tony1244 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:03 Liston wanted to fight Quarry badly. He never turned Jerry down.

Really hard to predict how he would have done against those guys because if I was to be honest, I would have favored him over Leotis Martin.

https://flic.kr/p/2nqkz9Q

So his excuse for declining his third offer from from three different promoters to face Quarry for the biggest fight of his post title career was that he was wanting a shot at Ellis. Same reason he turned down a fight against Mac Foster who had knocked him out in sparring:

https://flic.kr/p/2nqnYB9

And yet when he was offered the fight with Ellis for the title:

https://flic.kr/p/2nqnYBE

He turned it down on the excuse that he was never paid for fighting Ali in Miami and blamed Chris Dundee who wasnt even responsible for the purses of that promotion... So A. Liston wasnt blackballed. B. Liston was always the one declining those fights. And C. If you are turning down threatening fights because you are waiting on a title shot and then turn down the title shot when its your biggest post title payday in favor of fighting complete nobodies for far less then the assumption has to be that that you are simply on a glorified exhibition tour trying to run out the clock by fighting non threatening opposition for the lowest risk highest reward. This was born out when he spurned all offers to face Leotis Martin who was one of the weekest contenders you could face and still get TV money and look what happened, he got brutally knocked out. He wasnt going anywhere near anyone who could consistently rate at the top. Its no coincidence that the only two network television fights he had after losing his title were two the only two top ten rated fighters he could be dragged into the ring with and its no coincidence that both Clark and Martin were two of the least consistent and least threatening opponents he could pick. Clark couldnt punch his way through a wet kleenex and Martin had lost four times in the last two years, once to former Liston victim Clark. Martin was such a non-entity that his own hometown newspaper opined that if he got the fight with Liston he might no longer be called "Leotis who?".

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 17:02 Mr. Kompton, you are are obviously a Liston hater and a self-styled boxing expert. However; you're annoying AF!

Then you know Liston wasnt going in for the kill.

Of course you think Im annoying and a Liston hater. The facts are against you and I have a grasp of them. What else would a deluded Liston nuthugger think...

klompton wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 17:04

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 17:02 Mr. Kompton, you are are obviously a Liston hater and a self-styled boxing expert. However; you're annoying AF!

Then you know Liston wasnt going in for the kill.

Of course you think Im annoying and a Liston hater. The facts are against you and I have a grasp of them. What else would a deluded Liston nuthugger think...

LMFAO! I'm not even a Liston fan you deranged f*ckwhat! LMFAO!

Those links may or may not be the truth, and again, it has nothing to do with this boxoff. It was all later on.

Klompton, made you look. Those were interesting reads but all rumour and hearsay. I've heard several times that Liston wanted to fight Quarry. In boxing, as many fights almost happen than do happen, maybe more.

LOL. "Rumor and hearsay" Yeah, bonafide offers detailed by the actual promoters and the promoter himself saying Liston didnt want it. I dont give a fornicate what youve "HEARD" I just put it for you in black and white and you cant accept it. Im sure Quarry travelled to Liston's hometown and appeared on an exhibition bout with him to hype the fight because he intended to back out of it. And Im sure all that tough talk by Liston was serious considering how he then went on to fight Billy Joiner who was 0-3-3 in his last six, Scrap Iron Johnson who was 17-17-3 and had been stopped by Quarry, and Sonny Moore who was 1-5 in his last six and had already been stopped by Liston they year before. Yeah Liston was really making a serious run through the top ten LOL!

Tony1244 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 17:14 Klompton, made you look. Those were interesting reads but all rumour and hearsay. I've heard several times that Liston wanted to fight Quarry. In boxing, as many fights almost happen than do happen, maybe more.

If I had a nickel for every time a boxer was accused of ducking...

If I had a nickel for every time a fanboy refused to believe facts because it didnt jive with the notion that his hero was invincible...

Sorry to burst your bubble. Youll go on arguing here that Liston was blacklisted and couldnt get big fights but we both know you wont be able to unsee the fact that he wasnt. The Easter Bunny isnt real either.

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:06

Tony1244 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:03 Liston wanted to fight Quarry badly. He never turned Jerry down.

Really hard to predict how he would have done against those guys because if I was to be honest, I would have favored him over Leotis Martin.

He was beating Martin and some say on his way in for the kill when he got tagged.

Have you seen the fight? He was ahead on the cards, but he was clearly tiring and when he got his nose broken all the fight went out of him. He looked more like a sitting duck when he was tagged than someone going in for the kill. Also, Leotis Martin sure got a lot of mileage of out that fight, historically speaking.

As for the tournament, I think he'd struggle with most of them except for Patterson, Mildenberger and possibly Bonavena who would walk right into him.

hhaehre wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 19:10

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:06

Tony1244 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 15:03 Liston wanted to fight Quarry badly. He never turned Jerry down.

Really hard to predict how he would have done against those guys because if I was to be honest, I would have favored him over Leotis Martin.

He was beating Martin and some say on his way in for the kill when he got tagged.

Have you seen the fight? He was ahead on the cards, but he was clearly tiring and when he got his nose broken all the fight went out of him. He looked more like a sitting duck when he was tagged than someone going in for the kill. Also, Leotis Martin sure got a lot of mileage of out that fight, historically speaking.

As for the tournament, I think he'd struggle with most of them except for Patterson, Mildenberger and possibly Bonavena who would walk right into him.

Yeah I've seen the fight. I already posted that.
"I have seen the fight. Liston was ahead entering the 9th. He'd knocked down Martin in the fourth (I think) and hurt him a couple of times as well. Liston seemed to gas at the end, and was caught flush coming in when both guys were in the middle of the ring."

You can go back and see my take. Your take on the tourney could be correct. Hard to tell what Sonny had left in the tank in 67/68.

I think Bonavena would have defeated Sonny here. Nobody got away with an easy match with Ringo. And he wouldn't have been intimdated.

nobleart1978 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 09:18 How would sonny have done if he had been included in the wba tournament ?

Hard to say. There weren't a lot of punchers in the WBA tourney and his lost to Martin was the kind of come back that most would not be able to pull off because 1 ) they didn't hit as hard and 2 ) were not as durable as Matin 3 ) being his former spring partner he was afford of Liston.

Frazier declined the offer too. I think Sonny slowed down some for sure, but he still had enough to win the thing. A semi finals loss is 50/50 depending on the match ups.

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 19:38 Your take on the tourney could be correct. Hard to tell what Sonny had left in the tank in 67/68.

Based on his fights in the mid to late 60's he looked to have slowed down considerably. He still had the great jab, but he also had the hallmarks of a shot fighter who couldn't get his punches off like he used to. Good counter punchers like Quarry and Ellis would handle this diminished version of Liston I think. I absolutely think Lison ducked Quarry, old Sonny would have been a dream opponent for Jerry. Liston and his team probably counted Martin as one of the most beatable top 10 opponents for Sonny, a guy who would be quite stationary and that Liston could overpower.

Liston always beats Patterson. I like his chances here against Spencer and Mildenberger. But he falls to the other five.

There was some talk of Joe Frazier defending the NYSAC title against Liston in 68, but don't no how serious it was