BoxRec

BubiScholz wrote: James, what does a judge get paid for a championship fight?

Depends who he votes for.


This looks an exellent rematch.
The Green early, Beyer late theory sounds about right. Marcus was coming back pretty well in the first fight - but it did look all over for him early on.

But I think Beyer looked a bit vunerable even in his last fight.

I'll go Green KO 7.

Credit to Beyer for taking the rematch though.

Steve - you can fly to ALtenburg (about 100km away) from London for 75 quid. Would probably have gone myself but have a family commitment I can't really get out of (i.e. with me going to the Woods fight tomorrw, the missus would kill me)

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't know exactly, but where a world title fight is concerned, the money to pay the judges comes out of the promotional package. More to the point the board and lodging for the period are also paid for by the promoter, so the person who wins the purse bids for a fight handles all that sort of thing.

So you can see that bribing of people is not neccesary, the whole set up is perfectly conceived to give the promoter of the fight carte blanche to curry favour, even if it is merely subconscious, with the officials at the fight.

Look at the way the referee was hounded by the promoters and IBF officials for the Beyer v Green fight, that was an absolute fiasco, I've never seen a referee placed under such incredible pressure before in my life.

the ref seems very unexperienced and didn´t know the rules. the only one who knew the exact rule was the ring doctor. then the WBC official had to search it......

MightyWarrior wrote:
Credit to Beyer for taking the rematch though.

credit to beyer??? these two are making a damn fortune out of this fight!!!!


the winning bid was about £1.15m... Beyer will get close to £700k before deductions!!!!!

knockout wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:
Credit to Beyer for taking the rematch though.

credit to beyer??? these two are making a damn fortune out of this fight!!!!


the winning bid was about £1.15m... Beyer will get close to £700k before deductions!!!!!

i think it was over 2 million euros

fight news

Green: The fight will go 12!
By Ray Wheatley -- World of Boxing
WBC super middleweight interim champion Danny Green, who is currently training in Los Angeles, is looking forward to his March 12 WBC world title challenge against Marcus Beyer in Germany. Green lost his first world title challenge to Beyer on a controversial disqualification in August 2003. Green had Beyer on the canvas twice in that bout, but was was disqualified in the fifth round by referee Bill Clancy after the American official deemed the German fighter's cut eye was caused by an intentional head butt. Green said, "I genuinely believe this fight is going twelve rounds. People say 'You've got to knock him out to win in Germany,' well that's unfair and I think it's a silly thing to say. Because if I win the fight convincingly then I think the WBC's honor is on the line here. They realize that before, a mistake was made in the decision and the WBC have given the go ahead for the rematch. The whole world is watching this fight and I think whoever deserves to win is going to win and there's not going to be any rough decision just because it is in Germany. There's a lot of pressure on the WBC and the judges and the referee to do the right thing." Beyer has stated, "I only hope he remains fair this time," and Beyer's coach Ulli Wegner commented, "Markus can kayo Green and I am sure he would do it."

BubiScholz wrote:

knockout wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:
Credit to Beyer for taking the rematch though.

credit to beyer??? these two are making a damn fortune out of this fight!!!!


the winning bid was about £1.15m... Beyer will get close to £700k before deductions!!!!!

i think it was over 2 million euros

The pursebid was $2,149,000

Beyer was being outboxed by Sanavia before he knocked him out and then got knocked down by Nishizawa. Green last time struggled and got knocked down by the guy Brian Magee knocked out in 1 a while ago. Both guys not in great form.

Green by late stoppage or points, Beyer is not the fighter he was.

I actually think Real Deal's thread title could be spot on - Both have had some decent wins (both legitmitately or controversially).

BubiScholz wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

BubiScholz wrote:sorry, but all these nice meals and drinks shouldn´t influence a referee or judge. why did DM then lose vs. Gonzalez? this was a close fight, too and a great for boxing history. if it would be like you explain it there would be no real fight all over the world.

i think very often the judges give the close rounds to the champ not depending on the country.

They shouldn't, but they clearly do...

That's not to say EVERY decision is corrupt, otherwise nobody would watch boxing at all, some judges are obviously going to be harder to influence than others, but there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that there are many many cases where the largesse of promoters buys their fighter close rounds, and it only takes a few close rounds to sway a fight one way or another.

James, what does a judge get paid for a championship fight?

WBO judges get between $1,300 and $3,500, it depends upon the size of the purse.

The refs get between $1,600 and $5,000. I'm not sure what they get for expenses/hotel/meals. 8)

REAL_DEAL wrote:fight news

Green: The fight will go 12!
By Ray Wheatley -- World of Boxing
WBC super middleweight interim champion Danny Green, who is currently training in Los Angeles, is looking forward to his March 12 WBC world title challenge against Marcus Beyer in Germany. Green lost his first world title challenge to Beyer on a controversial disqualification in August 2003. Green had Beyer on the canvas twice in that bout, but was was disqualified in the fifth round by referee Bill Clancy after the American official deemed the German fighter's cut eye was caused by an intentional head butt. Green said, "I genuinely believe this fight is going twelve rounds. People say 'You've got to knock him out to win in Germany,' well that's unfair and I think it's a silly thing to say. Because if I win the fight convincingly then I think the WBC's honor is on the line here. They realize that before, a mistake was made in the decision and the WBC have given the go ahead for the rematch. The whole world is watching this fight and I think whoever deserves to win is going to win and there's not going to be any rough decision just because it is in Germany. There's a lot of pressure on the WBC and the judges and the referee to do the right thing." Beyer has stated, "I only hope he remains fair this time," and Beyer's coach Ulli Wegner commented, "Markus can kayo Green and I am sure he would do it."

Green is quite smart saying this in the interview, laying the pressure on before the event.

As I understand it, didn't they cock it up last time. It should have been the case that as the first cut was caused by a punch, and not an intentional or unintentional headbutt, if the fight gets stopped, then the fight should have gone to scorecards, not given to beyer on DQ. However, the big hoo-haa was that the initial cut was caused by a butt, which was not borne out by the replay, and was not the referee's initial decision.

Green KO6

Green fought a very patient fight against Lucas and by the 4th round he was all over him, I think this fight won't go past 6 as Beyer will still be scared from the first fight and will eventually get caught.

knockout wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:
Credit to Beyer for taking the rematch though.

credit to beyer??? these two are making a damn fortune out of this fight!!!!


the winning bid was about £1.15m... Beyer will get close to £700k before deductions!!!!!

Oh right.....credit to his bank account in that case.

And no, whoever wins, Calzaghe is still top dog..........help if he'd fight every now and then though.

If Beyer wins, he has fair claim to being top Dog. When was the last time Calzaghe actually fought a genuine top 10 fighter?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:If Beyer wins, he has fair claim to being top Dog. When was the last time Calzaghe actually fought a genuine top 10 fighter?

Not to sure why Green wouldn't have a case should he win also? Remember he smashed in Eric Lucas.

True, forgot about Lucas, I guess it's because his career isn't as long.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:If Beyer wins, he has fair claim to being top Dog. When was the last time Calzaghe actually fought a genuine top 10 fighter?

I think most people would fancy Calzaghe to beat both these guys though.

I agree with whoever wins this fight should be classed as no1 in the division. Calzaghe's opposition over the last couple of years has not been the best and his last performance against a top20 guy was rubbish.

I've got a gut feeling Beyer will win this on points.

Also we ranked Joe above Sven for years on account he would probably win a fight between the 2 although Sven opposition was better imo. How much longer can we do it for? After his performances recently I wouldn't confidently back Calzaghe against any of the top 5.

MightyWarrior wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:If Beyer wins, he has fair claim to being top Dog. When was the last time Calzaghe actually fought a genuine top 10 fighter?

I think most people would fancy Calzaghe to beat both these guys though.

Yes but what are the chances of that happening, as Harry Hill might say.

No, for me, the winner of this fight leapfrogs Calzaghe. Calzaghe has been fighting top 20 guys since beating Mitchell, his performances have also gone downhill. If Calzaghe fought like he did against Salem, I doubt he'd been green, good chin or not.

I'm a Calzaghe fan ( which is pretty hard going of late ) but it's hard to argue if people place Beyer / Green at No #1- I admit.

Though to me, the WBC title just seems to have been a round robin of Europeans & Canadians knocking each other out then getting immediate rematches....but at least they're 50/50 fights I guess.

And what's that daft press release I see maxboxing posted up? Hyping up Calzaghe/McGee likes it's a major EVENT

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

REAL_DEAL wrote:fight news

Green: The fight will go 12!
By Ray Wheatley -- World of Boxing
WBC super middleweight interim champion Danny Green, who is currently training in Los Angeles, is looking forward to his March 12 WBC world title challenge against Marcus Beyer in Germany. Green lost his first world title challenge to Beyer on a controversial disqualification in August 2003. Green had Beyer on the canvas twice in that bout, but was was disqualified in the fifth round by referee Bill Clancy after the American official deemed the German fighter's cut eye was caused by an intentional head butt. Green said, "I genuinely believe this fight is going twelve rounds. People say 'You've got to knock him out to win in Germany,' well that's unfair and I think it's a silly thing to say. Because if I win the fight convincingly then I think the WBC's honor is on the line here. They realize that before, a mistake was made in the decision and the WBC have given the go ahead for the rematch. The whole world is watching this fight and I think whoever deserves to win is going to win and there's not going to be any rough decision just because it is in Germany. There's a lot of pressure on the WBC and the judges and the referee to do the right thing." Beyer has stated, "I only hope he remains fair this time," and Beyer's coach Ulli Wegner commented, "Markus can kayo Green and I am sure he would do it."

Green is quite smart saying this in the interview, laying the pressure on before the event.

As I understand it, didn't they cock it up last time. It should have been the case that as the first cut was caused by a punch, and not an intentional or unintentional headbutt, if the fight gets stopped, then the fight should have gone to scorecards, not given to beyer on DQ. However, the big hoo-haa was that the initial cut was caused by a butt, which was not borne out by the replay, and was not the referee's initial decision.

Yeah i think your right if i remember, the actual cut that the fight was stopped on had been done earlier in the fight by a punch, the second cut caused by the head butt wasn't the cause...or something along those lines. I will have to watch the tape again. Any ideas on who the ref might be by the way?

steve689 wrote: Yeah i think your right if i remember, the actual cut that the fight was stopped on had been done earlier in the fight by a punch, the second cut caused by the head butt wasn't the cause...or something along those lines. I will have to watch the tape again. Any ideas on who the ref might be by the way?

Yes I remember it was along those lines. The pressure they put on the ref was just unbelievable.

steve689 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

REAL_DEAL wrote:fight news

Green: The fight will go 12!
By Ray Wheatley -- World of Boxing
WBC super middleweight interim champion Danny Green, who is currently training in Los Angeles, is looking forward to his March 12 WBC world title challenge against Marcus Beyer in Germany. Green lost his first world title challenge to Beyer on a controversial disqualification in August 2003. Green had Beyer on the canvas twice in that bout, but was was disqualified in the fifth round by referee Bill Clancy after the American official deemed the German fighter's cut eye was caused by an intentional head butt. Green said, "I genuinely believe this fight is going twelve rounds. People say 'You've got to knock him out to win in Germany,' well that's unfair and I think it's a silly thing to say. Because if I win the fight convincingly then I think the WBC's honor is on the line here. They realize that before, a mistake was made in the decision and the WBC have given the go ahead for the rematch. The whole world is watching this fight and I think whoever deserves to win is going to win and there's not going to be any rough decision just because it is in Germany. There's a lot of pressure on the WBC and the judges and the referee to do the right thing." Beyer has stated, "I only hope he remains fair this time," and Beyer's coach Ulli Wegner commented, "Markus can kayo Green and I am sure he would do it."

Green is quite smart saying this in the interview, laying the pressure on before the event.

As I understand it, didn't they cock it up last time. It should have been the case that as the first cut was caused by a punch, and not an intentional or unintentional headbutt, if the fight gets stopped, then the fight should have gone to scorecards, not given to beyer on DQ. However, the big hoo-haa was that the initial cut was caused by a butt, which was not borne out by the replay, and was not the referee's initial decision.

Yeah i think your right if i remember, the actual cut that the fight was stopped on had been done earlier in the fight by a punch, the second cut caused by the head butt wasn't the cause...or something along those lines. I will have to watch the tape again. Any ideas on who the ref might be by the way?

The officials pressurised the referee into declaring that the original cut was caused by an 'unintentional headbutt' when in fact it was caused

I think the ruling was that if a cut is caused by a butt intentional or otherwise, and is then worsened by an intentional butt, then it is DQ. If it had been ruled as being caused by a punch (which it was) they could have deducted points, but not DQ'd him.

Maybe I am remembering it wrong, not got it on tape, but I seem to remember a slow mo showing the cut was caused by a punch and not a headbutt.

Bill Clancy was the ref.