BoxRec

Posted: **09 Nov 2022, 18:55**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Nov 2022, 16:40 After reading what my esteemed colleagues had to say, I revised the list. (Went to 7 tiers, with no honorable mention. 10 fighters per tier.

Tier 1
Bob Fitzsimmons
George Foreman
Bob Foster
Thomas Hearns
Julian Jackson
Stanley Ketchel
Archie Moore
Sandy Saddler
Earnie Shavers
Carlos Zarate

Tier 2
Alexis Arguello
Khaosai Galaxy
Wilfredo Gomez
Sonny Liston
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
Ruben Olivares
Manny Pacquiao
Ray Robinson
Mike Tyson

Tier 3
Roberto Duran
Joe Frazier
Gennady Golovkin
Naseem Hamed
Inoue
Lennox Lewis
Danny Lopez
Aaron Pryor
Michael Spinks
Tony Zale

Tier 4
Pipino Cuevas
Jack Dempsey
Gerald McClellan
Ron Lyle
Carlos Monzon
Edwin Rosario
Razor Ruddock
Salvador Sanchez
Rodrigo Valdez
Deontay Wilder

Tier 5
Riddick Bowe
Marvin Hagler
Wladimir Klitschko
Sam Langford
Ray Leonard
Ricardo Lopez
Jose Luis Ramirez
Felix Trinidad
Jimmy Wilde
Alfonso Zamora

Tier 6
Ezzard Charles
George “KO” Chaney
Julio Cesar Chavez
Al “Bummy” Davis
Antonio Esparragoza
Rocky Graziano
Eder Jofre
Marvin Johnson
Terry McGovern
Mathew Saad Muhammad

Tier 7
Max Baer
Tommy Morrison
John Mugabi
Pascual Perez
Jesus Pimentel
Elmer Ray
David Tua
Kosta Tszyu
Julio Cesar Vasquez
Ike Williams

Joe Gans

Posted: **12 Nov 2022, 16:09**

I'll put the great Jimmy Wilde in tier #1 and the great Archie Moore in tier #2.

Danny Lopez is certainly a tier #1 or #2.

Posted: **12 Nov 2022, 16:14**

Also Artur Beterbiev deserves a nod.

Posted: **18 Nov 2022, 03:56**

elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Nov 2022, 21:42 Danny Lopez and the great Jimmy Wilde should be in tier 1

And possibly at the very top of it. But nobody wants to imagine that possibly the hardest punching boxer that ever lived, could have weighed only 108 lbs

Posted: **18 Nov 2022, 06:51**

I bought the ring mag punchers special.

Decent toilet read but hardly any surprises on it. It focused on only the last 100 years.

Obviously in another 20 years more will drop off the list and we will have some new ones in there.

Posted: **21 Nov 2022, 23:47**

Deontay Wilder-Luis Ortiz bouts.
Thomas Hearns-Cuevas, Duran, Roldan, Geraldo, Big Ko bouts.
Julian Jackson-Terry Norris bout.
Gerald McClellan-Many devastating Ko's.
Earnie Shavers-Ken Norton bout.
Joe Louis-Buddy Baer bouts.
Lennox Lewis-Hasim Rahman bout.
Mike Tyson-Michael Spinks and Larry Holmes bouts.
Rocky Marciano-Jersey Joe Walcott bouts.
David Tua-Michael Moorer and John Ruiz bouts.
Wlad Klitscko-Ray Austin bout.
Bob Satterfield-Julian Jackson/Bob Foster of his era
Bob Foster-Mike Quarry bout.
Archie Moore-Dropped Marciano.
Max Baer-Big Hammer overhand. Carnera bout.
Riddick Bowe-3rd bout versus Holyfield
Jack Dempsey-"Jess Willard bout"
Evander Holyfield-"2nd round Demolition of Buster Douglass"
Terrance Crawford-"And. Just. Like. That !!!"

Note: I could obviously name Piles and Piles more to my list.

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 12:05**

bollocks wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 03:56
elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Nov 2022, 21:42 Danny Lopez and the great Jimmy Wilde should be in tier 1
And possibly at the very top of it. But nobody wants to imagine that possibly the hardest punching boxer that ever lived, could have weighed only 108 lbs

There just isn't enough to back up that claim. Unfortunately, he fought to early to have much relevant film. He doesn't really have an impressive victim's list either. What would the claim of him being the most powerful puncher be based on?

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 13:37**

orbtastic wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 06:51 I bought the ring mag punchers special.

Decent toilet read but hardly any surprises on it. It focused on only the last 100 years.

Obviously in another 20 years more will drop off the list and we will have some new ones in there.

What a strange editorial decision. Could boxers not punch prior to 1922? No one should be reading the Ring anymore.

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 13:42**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 12:05
bollocks wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 03:56
elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Nov 2022, 21:42 Danny Lopez and the great Jimmy Wilde should be in tier 1
And possibly at the very top of it. But nobody wants to imagine that possibly the hardest punching boxer that ever lived, could have weighed only 108 lbs
There just isn't enough to back up that claim. Unfortunately, he fought to early to have much relevant film. He doesn't really have an impressive victim's list either. What would the claim of him being the most powerful puncher be based on?

sounds like ketchel

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 14:25**

Ketchel had stoppages of some big names.

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 15:24**

who are these victims who get ketchy into tier 1 while wilde is tier 5

he stopped papke in 1 of 4 fights
jack o brian was pretty much finished when he stopped him (after the initial points win)

his ko tally is built largely upon total no hopers. doesnt seem like such a big tier difference if we play the lack of footage and limited wins card

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 17:29**

Stopping Papke once out of 4 is actually pretty good. No one else ever stopped Papke.
There is little evidence that O'Brien was pretty much finished when Ketchel stopped him. He just had the 6 round fight with Johnson a month earlier. A year earlier he looked good in 6 rounds against Blackburn. Granted these are only 6 round fights, but if he was finished he would have done as well as he did.
Ketchel also stopped several decent fighters of his era.

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 17:44**

wow, going 6 rounds is so impressive

hardly seems like the type of opposition and results to make him tier 1 if wilde is only tier 5 and some of these other guys are well lower too. vast majority of his ko wins were over total nobodies. pretty much every top fighter he faced went the distance with him or beat him, other guys went 30+ rounds before being stopped. halting some decent guys of your era is nice but falls a bit short of putting someone in the highest ever tier of punchers when you look at who some of the lower tier guys arre

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 20:22**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 14:25 Ketchel had stoppages of some big names.

Why do you completely ignore Joe Gans? He had far more KOs against top opponents than many of your other ‘top tier’ guys, especially Shavers, never mind the lower tiers you’ve omitted him from.

Posted: **22 Nov 2022, 21:50**

https://coxscorner.tripod.com/gans.html

Posted: **23 Nov 2022, 11:44**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 17:44 wow, going 6 rounds is so impressive

hardly seems like the type of opposition and results to make him tier 1 if wilde is only tier 5 and some of these other guys are well lower too. vast majority of his ko wins were over total nobodies. pretty much every top fighter he faced went the distance with him or beat him, other guys went 30+ rounds before being stopped. halting some decent guys of your era is nice but falls a bit short of putting someone in the highest ever tier of punchers when you look at who some of the lower tier guys arre

Yeah I thought O'Brien being competitive for 6 rounds with the heavyweight champion and winning over 6 rounds against Blackburn showed he had something left. You count Dempsey losing a 4 round decision against him. There simply isn't much to indicate that OBrien was well past it when Ketchel stopped him.

Of course they are total nobodies to you. Some were stiffs. Everyone fights some. However, Mike Twin Sullivan, Jack Twin Sullivan, and Hugo Kelly were top fighters of the era, and he stopped them, along with O'Brien and Papke. That dwarfs what Wilde did.

Posted: **23 Nov 2022, 11:45**

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 20:22
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 14:25 Ketchel had stoppages of some big names.
Why do you completely ignore Joe Gans? He had far more KOs against top opponents than many of your other ‘top tier’ guys, especially Shavers, never mind the lower tiers you’ve omitted him from.

Gans very well could deserve to be in there. I am sure there are other guys as well that nobody has mentioned.

Posted: **23 Nov 2022, 14:33**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 12:05
bollocks wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 03:56
elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Nov 2022, 21:42 Danny Lopez and the great Jimmy Wilde should be in tier 1
And possibly at the very top of it. But nobody wants to imagine that possibly the hardest punching boxer that ever lived, could have weighed only 108 lbs
There just isn't enough to back up that claim. Unfortunately, he fought to early to have much relevant film. He doesn't really have an impressive victim's list either. What would the claim of him being the most powerful puncher be based on?

Much the same for plenty of the earlier greats of the game. But when a flyweight thas 99 KO's in your career then you have a legitimate claim I'd say. IMOit's much harder for the smaller guys to KO each other which makes his record all the more impressive

Posted: **23 Nov 2022, 17:16**

rather ironic he's bringing up the lack of footage for wilde when he constantly argues when people do the same for other fighters, so does it matter or not that virtually every pre 1930s fighter has limited footage out there

Posted: **23 Nov 2022, 17:44**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑23 Nov 2022, 17:16 rather ironic he's bringing up the lack of footage for wilde when he constantly argues when people do the same for other fighters, so does it matter or not that virtually every pre 1930s fighter has limited footage out there

That's why I rarely bother with him.

Posted: **24 Nov 2022, 20:21**

I don't give a two cents of what anyone thinks about the great Jimmy Wilde.

The Welshman was a phenomenal puncher. He had 99KOs in his resume for a flyweight. He even KO'd guys that were 20 pounds bigger than he.

Danny Lopez, a guy that I hated very much, was so terrifying that even when he used to get decked to the canvas, he used to come back with one solid shot and it was over. And he did it against top notch featherweight competition.

Posted: **24 Nov 2022, 21:43**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑23 Nov 2022, 11:45
Wee Tommy wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 20:22
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 14:25 Ketchel had stoppages of some big names.
Why do you completely ignore Joe Gans? He had far more KOs against top opponents than many of your other ‘top tier’ guys, especially Shavers, never mind the lower tiers you’ve omitted him from.
Gans very well could deserve to be in there. I am sure there are other guys as well that nobody has mentioned.

I guess you know nothing about Gans

Fair enough.

Posted: **28 Nov 2022, 11:15**

Well yeah, I have heard of him.

On Nov 23 I said "Gans very well could deserve to be in there. I am sure there are other guys as well that nobody has mentioned."

Posted: **29 Nov 2022, 19:25**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022, 11:15 Well yeah, I have heard of him.
On Nov 23 I said "Gans very well could deserve to be in there. I am sure there are other guys as well that nobody has mentioned."

Name just one fighter missing whose record is close to Gans, please.

Posted: **30 Nov 2022, 11:53**

Gans was obviously an all time great. You could make an argument that he was the best lightweight of all time.
Gans has some nice stoppages on his record- Britt, Sullivan, Griffo when he was old. But when he fought the true greats, he didn't stop them. Had several opportunities against Holly Blackburn, Walcott, McGovern, prime Griffo. He certainly could punch but there are guys who hit harder.

Other guys that weren't listed? Well that sort of what I am saying, there are probably guys that nobody is thinking of. Off of the top of my head, Jeffries, Walcott, Williams, Cooney certainly had some power. Benny Leonard, Hurricane Carter. At a certain point, there are a lot of guys that are relatively close.

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