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Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 13:28
by Teddy's Toupee
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 12:54
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 11:03
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 10:54
He decked the highly skilled Gene Tunney, so he would be in with the slicksters. I would pick him over Charles, Walcott, Marciano, Patterson, Ingo, Neon Leon and Rahman. I would even give him a shot against Fury, if Wilder the Windmill could knock him down numerous time, there's no reason Jack couldn't and if it was before the eight count, he would put Fury down permanently.
Tunney wasn't highly skilled, he was just one of the first old-timers to utilise effectively that modern day staple the jab.
Ha'way man Teddy. Tunney was the consummate boxer.
Compared to his crude contemporaries.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 14:19
by Ezzard
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 11:21
Ezzard wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 11:13
If Dempsey's left hook missed Jones the breeze from the shot would drop Roy.
No it woudn't.
It would, Teddy, Promise.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 15:14
by Teddy's Toupee
Ezzard wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 14:19
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 11:21
Ezzard wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 11:13
If Dempsey's left hook missed Jones the breeze from the shot would drop Roy.
No it woudn't.
It would, Teddy, Promise.
Stop being silly. Jones stops Dempsey probably with a left hook to the body then head after softening him up during the rest of the bout. Dempsey better hope that the wind from his punches knocks Roy out because that's all he'll be hitting him with.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 16:02
by keithmoonhangover
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 15:14
Ezzard wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 14:19
It would, Teddy, Promise.
Stop being silly. Jones stops Dempsey probably with a left hook to the body then head after softening him up during the rest of the bout. Dempsey better hope that the wind from his punches knocks Roy out because that's all he'll be hitting him with.
Why didn't Roy stop John Ruiz?
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 16:32
by Teddy's Toupee
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 16:02
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 15:14
Ezzard wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 14:19
It would, Teddy, Promise.
Stop being silly. Jones stops Dempsey probably with a left hook to the body then head after softening him up during the rest of the bout. Dempsey better hope that the wind from his punches knocks Roy out because that's all he'll be hitting him with.
Why didn't Roy stop John Ruiz?
He felt sorry for him and was merciful toward his utterly vanguished foe.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 16:37
by keithmoonhangover
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 16:32
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 16:02
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 15:14
Stop being silly. Jones stops Dempsey probably with a left hook to the body then head after softening him up during the rest of the bout. Dempsey better hope that the wind from his punches knocks Roy out because that's all he'll be hitting him with.
Why didn't Roy stop John Ruiz?
He felt sorry for him and was merciful toward his utterly vanguished foe.
Dempsey wouldn't feel an mercy when he was standing over Roy waiting to beat him back down again.
After the Ruiz fight Roy got sparked by Tarver and Johnson. Was he being merciful towards them?
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 17:11
by Teddy's Toupee
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 16:37
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 16:32
He felt sorry for him and was merciful toward his utterly vanguished foe.
Dempsey wouldn't feel an mercy when he was standing over Roy waiting to beat him back down again.
After the Ruiz fight Roy got sparked by Tarver and Johnson. Was he being merciful towards them?
Then that would show Dempsey in a very bad light as, highly unlikely as that scenrio would be, he'd be breaking the rules if he was stood over Roy waiting for him to get back up. Has he learned nothing from the "long count" in his bout with the overrated Tunney?
As for Roy getting stopped by two all-time greats when clearly a faded force after his historically unprecedented heroic display in beating the heavyweight behemoth Ruiz, I think we can give Roy a pass for that.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 17:54
by keithmoonhangover
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 17:11
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 16:37
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 16:32
He felt sorry for him and was merciful toward his utterly vanguished foe.
Dempsey wouldn't feel an mercy when he was standing over Roy waiting to beat him back down again.
After the Ruiz fight Roy got sparked by Tarver and Johnson. Was he being merciful towards them?
Then that would show Dempsey in a very bad light as, highly unlikely as that scenrio would be, he'd be breaking the rules if he was stood over Roy waiting for him to get back up. Has he learned nothing from the "long count" in his bout with the overrated Tunney?
As for Roy getting stopped by two all-time greats when clearly a faded force after his historically unprecedented heroic display in beating the heavyweight behemoth Ruiz, I think we can give Roy a pass for that.
Glen Johnson is an all time great? Now I know you're on the wind up.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 18:09
by Teddy's Toupee
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 17:54
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 17:11
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 16:37
Dempsey wouldn't feel an mercy when he was standing over Roy waiting to beat him back down again.
After the Ruiz fight Roy got sparked by Tarver and Johnson. Was he being merciful towards them?
Then that would show Dempsey in a very bad light as, highly unlikely as that scenrio would be, he'd be breaking the rules if he was stood over Roy waiting for him to get back up. Has he learned nothing from the "long count" in his bout with the overrated Tunney?
As for Roy getting stopped by two all-time greats when clearly a faded force after his historically unprecedented heroic display in beating the heavyweight behemoth Ruiz, I think we can give Roy a pass for that.
Glen Johnson is an all time great? Now I know you're on the wind up.
How dare you suggest such a thing. If Johnson isn't an all-time great, who is?
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 18:42
by HomicideHenry
I see chronological snobbery once again rears its ugly head here on the forum. Roy Jones was never a serious heavyweight. Which is why he hand-picked John Ruiz who was the weakest link in the chain in that horrible era where Chris Byrd was second best to Lennox Lewis.
Had the referee allowed John Ruiz to be the huggy bear monster that he always was, I honestly don't think that Roy Jones would have made it the whole 12 rounds. When you basically take away the winning tactics of an opponent, when everybody knows they are not really a big boxer to begin with--- it was by design to make Roy Jones look all the more impressive than he really was.
The very fact that he avoided the ghost of Evander Holyfield, and outpriced himself against the shell of Mike Tyson--- going back down to light heavyweight to be gifted a decision over Antonio Tarver, says it all.
As for the original thread question I think the only lineal champion he would have beaten might have been Leon Spinks, Marvin Hart, and possibly Tommy Burns. Everybody else was too big or too skilled or too good.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 05:04
by keithmoonhangover
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 18:09
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 17:54
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 17:11
Then that would show Dempsey in a very bad light as, highly unlikely as that scenrio would be, he'd be breaking the rules if he was stood over Roy waiting for him to get back up. Has he learned nothing from the "long count" in his bout with the overrated Tunney?
As for Roy getting stopped by two all-time greats when clearly a faded force after his historically unprecedented heroic display in beating the heavyweight behemoth Ruiz, I think we can give Roy a pass for that.
Glen Johnson is an all time great? Now I know you're on the wind up.
How dare you suggest such a thing. If Johnson isn't an all-time great, who is?
Richard 'The Secret' Wiliiams?
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 08:05
by Ezzard
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 18:42
I see chronological snobbery once again rears its ugly head here on the forum. Roy Jones was never a serious heavyweight. Which is why he hand-picked John Ruiz who was the weakest link in the chain in that horrible era where Chris Byrd was second best to Lennox Lewis.
Had the referee allowed John Ruiz to be the huggy bear monster that he always was, I honestly don't think that Roy Jones would have made it the whole 12 rounds. When you basically take away the winning tactics of an opponent, when everybody knows they are not really a big boxer to begin with--- it was by design to make Roy Jones look all the more impressive than he really was.
The very fact that he avoided the ghost of Evander Holyfield, and outpriced himself against the shell of Mike Tyson--- going back down to light heavyweight to be gifted a decision over Antonio Tarver, says it all.
As for the original thread question I think the only lineal champion he would have beaten might have been Leon Spinks, Marvin Hart, and possibly Tommy Burns. Everybody else was too big or too skilled or too good.
Agree.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 10:36
by Teddy's Toupee
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Nov 2022, 05:04
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 18:09
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 17:54
Glen Johnson is an all time great? Now I know you're on the wind up.
How dare you suggest such a thing. If Johnson isn't an all-time great, who is?
Richard 'The Secret' Wiliiams?
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 11:10
by keithmoonhangover
What?
You started it.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 12:39
by Ambling Alp II
Anyway, I agree with those that have Jones winning against Leon Spinks, Hart, and Burns.
In addition, I think he would have beaten Corbett and Willard and certainly Braddock.
Sharkey was inconsistent and he would have a good chance against him if Sharkey was off. Baer was almost inconsistent, and Jones would have a chance if he could avoid the big right hand.
Jones would have lost the vast majority of these fights. He would have got his head handed to him in some of these.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 12:56
by Teddy's Toupee
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 18:42
I see chronological snobbery once again rears its ugly head here on the forum. Roy Jones was never a serious heavyweight. Which is why he hand-picked John Ruiz who was the weakest link in the chain in that horrible era where Chris Byrd was second best to Lennox Lewis.
Had the referee allowed John Ruiz to be the huggy bear monster that he always was, I honestly don't think that Roy Jones would have made it the whole 12 rounds. When you basically take away the winning tactics of an opponent, when everybody knows they are not really a big boxer to begin with--- it was by design to make Roy Jones look all the more impressive than he really was.
The very fact that he avoided the ghost of Evander Holyfield, and outpriced himself against the shell of Mike Tyson--- going back down to light heavyweight to be gifted a decision over Antonio Tarver, says it all.
As for the original thread question I think the only lineal champion he would have beaten might have been Leon Spinks, Marvin Hart, and possibly Tommy Burns. Everybody else was too big or too skilled or too good.
Give it a rest you inscient hick. You understand less about boxing than you do about politics. Pitting those primitive turn of the century pugilists against a modern day master of the fistic arts, like the peerless Roy Jones, would be the equivalent of the Wright Flyer taking on an F-35B in a dogfight.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 13:19
by Teddy's Toupee
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 20:06
by margaret thatcher
lol at roy not fighting lewis being brought up as if it would apply to rj vs these other guys. the difference between fighting many of these early champs and fighting atg top 10, 6'5 240 pound lewis is like the difference between fighting carlos adames and fury/wilder/aj. roy wouldnt have to worry about dealing with a great super heavyweight if he were facing many of these early dudes who were vastly smaller and worse fighters than lewis.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 14 Nov 2022, 07:42
by Ezzard
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 15:14
Ezzard wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 14:19
It would, Teddy, Promise.
Stop being silly. Jones stops Dempsey probably with a left hook to the body then head after softening him up during the rest of the bout. Dempsey better hope that the wind from his punches knocks Roy out because that's all he'll be hitting him with.
That's all he needs. Jones does his infamous yoga pose, "the folding deck-chair," with the first 5 rounds.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 14 Nov 2022, 11:51
by Ambling Alp II
He never managed to fight Dariusz Michalczewski, but people think he is going to beat Dempsey, Tunney and several of these other guys. Priceless.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 14 Nov 2022, 15:15
by margaret thatcher
lol, as if dempsey would've fought roy anyway, too black for jack
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 14 Nov 2022, 16:27
by Ambling Alp II
Yeah, that's what happened. Dempsey ducked them.
You know the history of the sport so well.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 14 Nov 2022, 16:44
by margaret thatcher
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 15 Nov 2022, 11:59
by Jaywheel
Let's see Roy beat some of the best LHW's before having him beat the lineal HW champs. Not sure he survives Spinks or Foster for instance.
Re: RJJ at Heavy
Posted: 15 Nov 2022, 13:37
by margaret thatcher
speaking of spinks and foster, they would be more difficult opponents than many of these champs..... bigger too. bob fitz was essentially the size of a jmw today
lineal hw champ's just a label.....gotta actually look at each fighter and what they brought to the ring
