BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 12:07 I always thought he had hell with Bonavena. I've watched that fight a few times, and I actually had it 7 rounds to 7 coming to the 15th.

DrDuke wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 22:15

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 17:33 Yeah the Chuvalo fight was a real nail biter. Just a barrage of punches from Chuvalo. Wonder who landed more in that fight.
Frazier didn't have a layoff like Ali.
Got beaten badly by Foreman but all in all really had not taken that much punishment going into their 2nd fight.
Frazier younger than Ali.
So yeah, he was closer to his prime than Ali.

So, it seems like primes switch on and off automatically on some particular age with everyone, except Ali, since his prime is regulated by a layoff. I guess, you are better to watch talkshows for grandmas instead of the Muhammad Ali amazing speed highlights on youtube.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 12:03

DrDuke wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 22:15

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 17:33 Yeah the Chuvalo fight was a real nail biter. Just a barrage of punches from Chuvalo. Wonder who landed more in that fight.
Frazier didn't have a layoff like Ali.
Got beaten badly by Foreman but all in all really had not taken that much punishment going into their 2nd fight.
Frazier younger than Ali.
So yeah, he was closer to his prime than Ali.

So, it seems like primes switch on and off automatically on some particular age with everyone, except Ali, since his prime is regulated by a layoff. I guess, you are better to watch talkshows for grandmas instead of the Muhammad Ali amazing speed highlights on youtube.

Most fighters
Ali's prime didn't switch on and off. He was in his prime in 1967. When he came back after the long layoff, he was no longer in his prime. After he had a few fights, he was not as rusty as he was he was when he first came back, but he was never going to be as good as he once was.

When George Foreman came back after a 10-year layoff, he never going to be as good as he once was. In his first few comeback fights, he looked terrible. However, he gradually performed better than when he first came back.

If Novak Djokovic (or any tennis player) retired today and came back in 3 or 4 years, he would never be as good again as he is now. He would really struggle in his first few tournaments. However, after a while he would gradually do better then when he first came back. However, he would never be as good as he is now.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 14:58 Obviously Foreman was older and had been out for longer period of time. That's not the point.
The point is that Foreman was better after having some fights during his comeback then he was right when he came back. And he was not as good as once was.

Jack Dempsey was off three years when he fought Dempsey. He was very rusty, didn't fight well and lost badly. He won a fight with Jack Sharkey before fighting Tunney again. He was no longer quite so rusty. He did better this time than the first time, but still lost. He was not as good as he once was.

Gave you boxing and tennis. How about basketball.
Michael Jordan was out of basketball for almost two years. When he first came back, he was very rusty and didn't play near the level that he had been when he stopped. However, after a while, he started playing much better. He still was not as good as he was before he originally stopped.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 21:02 The "A.I." version of this fight:

Muhammad Ali vs Buster Douglas

Fight info: Caesars Palace, Las Vegas, NV, United States, 2021-06-26, announcer is Lupe Contreras, referee is Johnny Callas, the bout will be scored by three judges: Andre Van Grootenbruel (Belgium), Mike England (United States) and Michael Pernick (United States), ring card girl is Amy Longlegs, this is not a title bout, the bout is scheduled for 12 rounds, Unified-rules are in effect, three KD rule is not in effect, save by the bell is not in effect, only the referee can stop the fight, mandatory 8 count is not in effect, fight stopped due to an accidental head butt: Tech. Draw through 4/Scorecard after 4, game will check for injuries, game will adjust ratings for weight class, use judges bias is set to 'use bias rating', Scoring System is 10 Points
In the red corner: Muhammad Ali - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime - Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Peter Manfredo Sr. - Cut Man: Bill Brady
In the blue corner: Buster Douglas - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime - Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Felix Trinidad Sr. - Cut Man: Aaron Snowell

Round 1
Time Commentary Points
0:00 There's no more time for speculation as the fight gets underway here in Round 1. 0:0
0:11 Ali has Douglas pinned! 0:0
0:11 * Callas steps in and admonishes Ali for hitting below the belt. 2:0
0:29 That was a reckless uppercut from Ali but it still manages to score cleanly. 5:0
0:43 Douglas wants to go downstairs, but can't penetrate Ali's defense. 5:0
0:50 The fighters are back at ring center... 5:0
0:55 Ali is probing with his jab as he tries to find an opening in Douglas's defense. 5:0
01:00 Douglas goes to work inside landing a hard combination to body. 5:3
01:21 Ali slides into a neutral corner... 5:3
01:25 Douglas wraps his arms around Ali. 5:3
01:36 Buster Douglas pushes Muhammad Ali away. 5:3
01:40 Not a lot of action in the ring right now. 5:3
01:48 Ali throws a hard cross and scores to the head of Douglas. 8:3
02:06 Ali has his arms wrapped around Douglas... Now they separate. 8:3
02:10 Ali finally lets go of Douglas. 8:3
02:15 Ali has Douglas trapped! 8:3
02:20 Muhammad Ali back pedals away from the straight forward attack of Douglas. 8:3
02:27 Douglas finds a home for his jab, keeping Muhammad Ali at bay. 8:5
02:41 Douglas backs into the far corner. 8:5
02:45 Ali has been watching too much wrestling, the way He's grabbing Douglas. 8:5
02:54 Callas steps in and breaks it up. 8:5
03:00 Ali has Douglas trapped in the upper left neutral corner... 8:5
03:00 The bell sounds to end Round 1 of what could very well turn out to be a mismatch. 9:4

Round 2
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Amy 'The Smile' Longlegs exits the ring to wild cheering. We await the bell, signaling the start of Round 2. There it is! 0:0
0:07 Ali is pinned in his own corner... 0:0
0:12 Douglas misses wildly with the hook. 0:0
0:14 Ali fires away with both hands, banging some clean shots home. 3:0
0:23 Douglas got some great advice from Felix Trinidad Sr. between rounds, let's see if he puts it to use here in round 2. 3:0
0:23 Ali traps Douglas in the corner! 3:0
0:23 Ali's jab falls short, but the cross gets in behind it. 5:0
0:37 Douglas works free! He backs to ring center, with Ali following. 5:0
0:42 Douglas lets a quick hook go, catching Ali moving in. 5:2
0:58 Douglas snakes the jab through Ali's gloves. He had some snap on that one. 5:4
01:22 Douglas ties up Ali... 5:4
01:27 Ali pushes Douglas away. 5:4
01:32 The uppercut just landed by Ali is a nice weapon on the inside. 7:4
01:47 Ali feints downstairs, then lands two quick blows to the head. 9:4
02:01 Muhammad Ali just can't find the range with that jab. 9:4
02:03 Buster Douglas scores with the jab. 9:6
02:17 Ali is trapped in Douglas's corner... 9:6
02:21 Look out! That was a straight right by Buster Douglas! 9:10
02:21 Ali is trying to reach for the ropes! His legs have turned to jelly! 9:10
02:30 Douglas gets a jab in but it was more of a push than a punch. 9:12
02:44 There's a clinch. Neither fighter seems to want to break. 9:12
02:56 Callas has to separate the two... 9:12
03:00 Ali just misses with a huge shot as Douglas chooses the perfect time to suddenly backpedal. 9:12
03:00 That was a great round as both combatants gave it everything they had and then some. 9:12

Round 3
Time Commentary Points
0:00 The bell starts the action as Ali and Buster Douglas leave their corners. 0:0
0:17 Ali is moving around the ring nicely. 0:0
0:21 Douglas got quite a pep talk in his corner; we'll see if Felix Trinidad Sr.'s instructions work. 0:0
0:22 There's a lead right hand that finds its mark. That can be a dangerous punch if Douglas can land a solid one. 0:2
0:37 Douglas throws a flurry of punches but Ali either blocks or slips them. 0:2
0:45 Ali's corner is urging him on. They're really vocal tonight. 0:2
0:55 Douglas is off target with that uppercut. 0:2
01:07 Ali is still trying to find the range with his punches. He's just missing with some of his shots. 0:2
01:14 Douglas retreats into a neutral corner. 0:2
01:14 Ali lands a short hook to the body. 2:2
01:26 Ali slides into the corner... 2:2
01:30 Douglas continues to follow Ali about the ring. 2:2
01:40 Buster Douglas takes a hard combination from Ali 6:2
01:40 Ali just delivered some big time hurt with that punch! Even the fans at ringside felt it! 6:2
02:07 Muhammad Ali misses with the jab. He lets go with a left and that fails to find its mark, too. 6:2
02:19 Ali lands a devastating hook! 10:2
02:19 Douglas was stunned by that blow! 10:2
02:32 Circling left, Douglas looks for an opening to fire a shot at Ali. 10:2
02:42 Ali lands a strong hook! 14:2
02:42 That blast sent Douglas reeling into the ropes! 14:2
02:51 Both boxers are in the middle of the squared circle. 14:2
02:51 The fighters are tangled up inside. Buster Douglas has a hand free and lands a little uppercut. 14:4
03:00 Ali moves into a neutral corner. 14:4
03:00 Douglas just comes up short with the jab. 14:4
03:00 The seconds jump into action in Ali's corner as the bell sounds ending Round 3. 16:5

Round 4
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Here come the fighters to ring center... 0:0
0:15 Ali is really fluid in his movement. 0:0
0:15 Both fighters show virtually nothing in the way of damage. 0:0
0:24 Callas warns Ali for holding and hitting, although he is doing a lot more holding than hitting. 0:0
0:34 Referee Callas steps in to break it up. 0:0
0:44 Douglas tries to get fancy with some subtle shoulder movement. When it's done right that kind of thing can throw off an opponent's timing. 0:0
0:58 Ali feints to the head before burying the hook in Douglas's side. 3:0
01:11 Douglas looks somewhat plodding as he tries to chase down Ali. 3:0
01:16 The fighters are jockeying for position as both men try to gain the advantage here in the 4th. 3:0
01:19 Douglas pushes Ali away to give himself a little more space to work with. 3:0
01:27 Douglas can't score with short uppercut inside. Ali got his gloves in front of the punch. 3:0
01:29 Ali scores with a quick hook to the head of Douglas after Douglas missed with a wild shot of his own. 5:0
01:42 Douglas retreats into the lower corner. 5:0
01:47 That's a pretty long clinch! Do these guys want to hug or fight? 5:0
01:57 Callas moves them apart. 5:0
02:07 Not much steam behind Ali's jab, but it scores nonetheless. 7:0
02:24 Douglas fires a lead right that Muhammad Ali manages to avoid. 7:0
02:32 Ali punishes Douglas with his piston-like jab and if he keeps doing it, he might bust Douglas up. 10:0
02:45 Ali is trapped in the corner... 10:0
02:45 Douglas scores with a glancing cross. 10:2
03:00 The bell sounds ending Round 4. 10:3

Round 5
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Ali and Douglas square off as the bell sounds to start the action for Round 5. 0:0
0:13 Ali has Douglas blocked in! 0:0
0:18 Muhammad Ali fires a shot, but it glances off Douglas's shoulder. 0:0
0:20 Douglas gets in close and comes straight up to the chin of Ali with an uppercut. 0:2
0:24 Both fighters are unmarked at this stage of the fight. 0:2
0:31 The fighters are at ring center... 0:2
0:36 Douglas suddenly goes southpaw and tries to find an opening. But his punches miss from this side too. Now he goes back to his orthodox stance. 0:2
0:48 Douglas traps Ali's gloves under his arms. He won't let go until Callas breaks it up. 0:2
01:03 The Referee breaks it up... 0:2
01:12 Douglas scores with a tremendous right just above the waistline! 0:6
01:12 Ali looks shaken! 0:6
01:26 Ali slides into his own corner... 0:6
01:26 Douglas drives a brutal left hook home just above Ali's trunks. 0:9
01:40 Ali is protecting the body nicely as Douglas fails to score inside. 0:9
01:57 Douglas fires away but finds nothing but air. 0:9
01:59 Ali sneaks in a quick uppercut that lands cleanly. 2:9
01:59 Douglas steps back and checks for blood after the fighters bump heads. 2:9
02:09 Douglas backs into a neutral corner. 2:9
02:09 Ali wings the right cross and it gets in, though without a lot of steam on it. 4:9
02:33 Douglas tries to get the hook into the the ribs, but Ali blocks it. 4:9
02:40 Douglas brushes the ropes and quickly spins away, heading back to ring center. 4:9
02:45 He fires and misses. 4:9
03:00 There's a hard shot off the top of Ali's head! 4:13
03:00 Ali's knee almost touched the canvas... 4:13
03:00 Round 5 finishes with the sound of the bell. 4:13

Round 6
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Round 6 begins as the bell sounds. 0:0
0:19 Ali works his way in and leans on Douglas... 0:0
0:24 Referee Callas separates the two... 0:0
0:24 Neither fighter shows any wear and tear at this point. 0:0
0:28 Douglas gets inside and fires a hook to Ali's body. 0:2
0:38 Ali moves into the near right corner. 0:2
0:42 Douglas fires a left hand that Ali takes high on the shoulder. 0:2
0:44 "The Greatest" Ali scores with consecutive blows to the body of Douglas. 2:2
0:59 Douglas shoots a vicious cross right down the pipe and catches Ali flush! 2:6
0:59 Ali was rattled by that shot and he is hurt! 2:6
01:12 Douglas misses with that cross. 2:6
01:23 Both men look to measure one another. 2:6
01:27 Douglas pins Ali in the corner! 2:6
01:31 Douglas tries a straight right that's blocked by the gloves of Ali. 2:6
01:38 Ali lands a vicious hook! 7:6
01:38 Douglas was staggered by that punch! 7:6
01:53 Some good body work by Ali but not much on those punches. 9:6
02:07 Douglas lets his hands go but his punches land on the arms of Ali. 9:6
02:09 Ali scores with a quick one-two to Douglas's midsection 11:6
02:18 Douglas lands a rapier like jab to the head of Ali 11:8
02:33 Douglas wings a big left hand at Ali but the latter sidesteps the punch. 11:8
02:35 Muhammad Ali scores with a nice two-punch combination. 13:8
02:46 There's a combination of punches from Ali that score big. 16:8
02:55 Douglas has Ali cornered! 16:8
03:00 Douglas forces his way inside. 16:8
03:00 After the bell both fighters continued to throw punches forcing Callas to step in and break it up. 15:10

Round 7
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Ali rushes out at the bell. Whatever his corner said to him seems to have him fired up. 0:0
0:07 Peter Manfredo Sr. was really animated in Ali's corner and Ali was nodding in agreement. 0:0
0:13 Buster Douglas pummels Ali, capping off his assault with a stiff hook! 0:4
0:13 That was a beautiful shot, Ali's eyes actually rolled back in his head! It's amazing that he's still upright! 0:4
0:18 Buster Douglas is slowing up... 0:4
0:18 Despite the punches landed, both fighters remain unmarked. 0:4
0:23 Douglas moves into a neutral corner. 0:4
0:27 Callas yells at the fighters to separate but Ali and Douglas are a tangle of arms. 0:4
0:38 Callas has to break the clinch. 0:4
0:42 Both fighters are being cautious and keeping out of range. 0:4
0:50 Douglas grabs Ali. Too much of this kind of thing can have a negative affect on the scoring of the fight. 0:4
0:54 Callas separates the two fighters. 0:4
01:03 Ali has Douglas trapped! 0:4
01:07 And Douglas tastes the power of a huge cross from Ali! 4:4
01:07 Buster Douglas appears to have been staggered by that punch... 4:4
01:20 Ali has Douglas pinned! 4:4
01:24 Ali isn't moving his feet right now, but his upper body movement is giving Douglas fits. 4:4
01:29 There's a pause in the action as both fighters regroup. 4:4
01:33 Douglas feels his back touch the ropes and immediately moves away. He doesn't want to get trapped there. 4:4
01:38 Douglas pins Ali's arms. Now they move apart. 4:4
01:56 Douglas uses his shoulder to force Ali out of the clinch. 4:4
02:00 Douglas tries to push Ali back in an attempt to gain room to punch. 4:4
02:11 Ali lands consecutive blows to Douglas's midsection. 6:4
02:15 The sting is starting to go from Douglas's punches... 6:4
02:20 Buster Douglas is covering up to prevent body shots, but he's leaving his chin dangerously unprotected! 6:4
02:23 Douglas shoots the right home. That's a sneaky punch. 6:6
02:39 Ali leaves the jab just short. 6:6
02:46 The action slows for the moment. 6:6
02:54 Ali landed a sharp combination that rocked Douglas back on his heels! 11:6
02:54 Douglas is suddenly in trouble after those punches! 11:6
03:00 Douglas backs into a neutral corner. 11:6
03:00 Ali appears to have a pretty good lead at this point. 11:6
03:00 Round 7 of this scheduled 12 rounder ends as the bell sounds. 12:5

Round 8
Time Commentary Points
0:00 The seconds hurry out of Douglas's corner as the bell sounds for Round 8. 0:0
0:08 Douglas slides into the corner... 0:0
0:13 Ali is in constant motion. He is a hard fighter to corner. 0:0
0:17 Ali is staying at the center of the ring. 0:0
0:22 Douglas is trying to free his gloves from under Ali's gloves. 0:0
0:37 Callas breaks them up... 0:0
0:42 Douglas is blocked in his own corner... 0:0
0:47 Ali whiffs with the hook. 0:0
0:54 Douglas just landed a devastating three punch combo! 0:4
0:54 Ali appears shaken by those punches! 0:4
01:03 Muhammad Ali jolts Douglas with a short, crisp uppercut under the ribs, that had to hurt. 3:4
01:21 Ali does a great job of moving as Douglas tries to work inside. 3:4
01:23 Muhammad Ali doubles up to the body, though Douglas seems unfazed. 5:4
01:44 Ali holds his arms up in disgust as Douglas holds him around his waist. 5:4
01:48 Callas is shouting at Douglas to break! 5:4
01:58 Muhammad Ali is moving like he is walking on air tonight. 5:4
02:06 Both fighters are working the angles, looking to get the upper hand in this contest. 5:4
02:09 Ali retreats into a neutral corner. 5:4
02:13 Douglas traps Muhammad Ali's gloves under his arms... He won't let go. 5:4
02:22 Ali tries to get free... Here comes Callas to break them up... 5:4
02:35 Ali is trapped in his own corner... 5:4
02:40 Douglas lands a wicked uppercut! 5:8
02:40 Ali's hurt, that blow stopped him cold! 5:8
03:00 * Douglas goes down!! he walked right into a wicked hook from Ali!! 5:8
03:00 Callas begins the count... 15:8
03:00 1... 15:8
03:00 * Douglas still looks shaky after getting up from the knockdown and Callas is taking a long look at him. 15:8
03:00 Callas is allowing the fight to continue and the action resumes. 15:8
03:00 Fans appreciate a fine display of boxing but as that last round proved nothing gets them going like a knockdown. 17:7

Round 9
Time Commentary Points
0:00 The bell sounds to start Round 9. 0:0
0:11 Ali bounces off the ropes, challenging Douglas to come get him. 0:0
0:21 Douglas is clinching... 0:0
0:26 Callas separates the two... 0:0
0:39 Ali made Douglas look foolish as he dodged everything he threw just now. Douglas would have better luck trying to catch a greased Pig. 0:0
0:41 "The Greatest" throws the jab and it lands cleanly. 2:0
0:58 Douglas tries to drop the right hand over the top but Ali ducks under it. 2:0
01:00 Douglas eats a jab from Ali 4:0
01:15 Douglas can't find the range as he tries to work the body. 4:0
01:24 Ali throws a nice, short uppercut that scores to Buster Douglas's jaw. 6:0
01:35 Douglas is trying to avoid shots to the body. He'd better look out for shots to the head! 6:0
01:42 Douglas fires a volley of punches but Muhammad Ali was already moving laterally and was out of harm's way. 6:0
01:44 Ali slips inside and lands a hook. 8:0
01:49 Douglas appears to be rebounding from the knockdown he suffered in the last frame. 8:0
01:58 Ali ties up Douglas. Why would he want to clinch now? 8:0
02:03 The fighters separate after a clinch. 8:0
02:07 Douglas's corner is shouting to their man, encouraging him to pick up the action. 8:0
02:18 * Douglas absorbs a wicked cross to the head. He's staggering backwards and now he goes down in a heap. 8:0
02:21 Callas brings his arm down over Douglas as he begins the count... 17:0
02:21 1... 17:0
02:22 2... 17:0
02:23 3... 17:0
02:24 4... 17:0
02:25 5... 17:0
02:26 6... 17:0
02:27 7... 17:0
02:28 8... 17:0
02:28 * Douglas is having a hard time keeping his feet under him as he pulls himself up off the canvas, 17:0
02:28 Callas looks closely at Douglas who indicates he is ok, and the fight will continue... 17:0
02:28 Muhammad Ali picks up the pace sensing he can get Douglas out of there! 17:0
02:33 Douglas is feeling the effects of his trips to the canvas in both this and the preceding round! 17:0
02:37 Douglas tastes Ali's jab 19:0
02:37 That last punch by Ali just turned Douglas's legs to Jell-O! Douglas did a little dance and he's trying to regroup. Ali moves in for the kill. 19:0
02:50 Ali holds his gloves high, bobbing and weaving, making it difficult for Douglas to score with a clean shot. 19:0
03:00 Ali doesn't connect with the hook. 19:0
03:00 Forget the sweet science, boxing fans love a knockdown as their approval of that last round clearly demonstrates. 21:0

Round 10
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Douglas was a little slow getting off his stool this round. 0:0
0:18 Apparently Douglas feels it's a good strategy to hug Ali and force Callas to come separate them. 0:0
0:22 Referee Callas has to separate the two... 0:0
0:27 Ali fires a punch over the jab of Douglas and gets it in for points. 2:0
0:36 Ali has Douglas blocked in! 2:0
0:41 Douglas tries to muscle inside but Ali clinches him. 2:0
0:50 Callas moves in to break the clinch. 2:0
0:59 Ali ends up behind Douglas as he deftly avoids a straight ahead attack moving to his right. 2:0
01:03 Neither fighter is using their jab enough this round. 2:0
01:12 Douglas throws a leaping shot that fails to hit the target. 2:0
01:14 Ali gives a nice head feint and then lands a hook to the head of Douglas. 4:0
01:23 Ali gets his head on the chest of Buster Douglas as He tries to outmuscle him on the inside, scoring with a nice short hook to the head. 6:0
01:33 The action is back at ring center. 6:0
01:33 Muhammad Ali lands a jab to Douglas's midsection 8:0
01:37 Ali earned some respect after scoring that knockdown last round. 8:0
01:46 Ali tries to go to the body but he can't find an opening. 8:0
01:53 Douglas appears to be trying to load up on his punches. 8:0
01:57 Ali seems really focused on what he's doing this round. 8:0
02:06 Douglas has Ali pinned! 8:0
02:11 That hook from Douglas snapped Ali's head back violently! 8:4
02:11 Ali is staggered... 8:4
02:33 Ali just absorbed a terrifying shot to the body. 8:9
02:33 Ali is trying to regroup after those punches... 8:9
02:42 A flurry of punches are exchanged between the two fighters. It appears as if neither has gotten the better of the exchange. 10:11
02:52 Both fighters keep straying from ring center. Now they're back in the middle of the square. 10:11
02:56 Ali picks off the combination by Douglas. 10:11
03:00 * Ali lands a hard uppercut to the head and Douglas is down!! 10:11
03:00 Callas positions himself over Douglas and starts the count.. 17:11
03:00 1... 17:11
03:00 * Douglas finds his legs and stands up but who knows how long he will be able to remain vertical! 17:11
03:00 Callas motions to both boxers to come together, as he allows the fight to continue. 17:11
03:00 It looks like Muhammad Ali has a pretty solid lead at this stage of the fight. 17:11
03:00 The round's over and the crowd hasn't stopped screaming since the knockdown occurred. 18:10

Round 11
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Ali looks to be in excellent shape as Round 11 gets underway. 0:0
0:06 Peter Manfredo Sr. not only gave Ali encouragement between rounds but also some solid advice on how to handle Douglas. Now it's up to Muhammad Ali to implement it. 0:0
0:12 Douglas pins Ali's arms against his body stopping him from throwing any punches. 0:0
0:21 Now they break clean. 0:0
0:29 Both fighters are circling, keeping their distance from each other. 0:0
0:37 Douglas picks off the jab thrown by Ali. 0:0
0:47 Ali connects with a left-right combo. 2:0
0:59 Douglas eats a short cross from Ali amd backs away. 4:0
01:12 Ali is getting the better of it on the inside. There's that crunching uppercut again! 7:0
01:28 Muhammad Ali swings...and misses. 7:0
01:31 Douglas still appears to be a little woozy after being dropped last round. 7:0
01:36 Both fighters are feinting with the shoulders. Now, Buster Douglas lands the right hand. 7:2
01:50 Ali lets his hands go inside, but Douglas protects his body well. 7:2
01:52 Douglas works his way inside and scores with a hook to the body. 7:4
02:04 Douglas traps Ali in the corner! 7:4
02:09 Douglas misses with the left and then fails to connect with the right as well. 7:4
02:20 It's a sweet uppercut by Douglas! He snapped Ali's head straight back with that punch! 7:8
02:20 Ali looks stunned! 7:8
02:32 Both fighters move back to ring center. 7:8
02:32 Douglas lands with a short, quick uppercut in close. 7:10
02:45 Muhammad Ali retreats into his own corner... 7:10
02:50 Ali comes in low. Douglas puts a headlock on him. Callas knocks Douglas's arm off Muhammad Ali's head. 7:10
03:00 Callas pries them apart. 7:10
03:00 Ali seems to have done enough to win this fight. 7:10
03:00 Douglas shows "The Greatest" Ali his back and moves quickly back to his corner at the sound of the bell, ending Round 11. 8:9

Round 12
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Both fighters look determined as the final round gets underway. 0:0
0:10 Both fighters seem willing to clinch... Someone's got to throw some leather... 0:0
0:21 Callas separates them. 0:0
0:25 Ali received a pep talk from Peter Manfredo Sr. before he left his corner; we'll see if it worked. 0:0
0:33 Callas has to pull the fighters away from each other as Douglas locks up Ali's arms. 0:0
0:43 Callas separates the two... 0:0
0:55 Buster Douglas lands a crushing jab! 0:4
0:55 Ali is favoring his ribs, he's hurt!! 0:4
01:04 Douglas has Muhammad Ali trapped in the left neutral corner... 0:4
01:09 Douglas looks to work the body, but Ali covers up nicely. 0:4
01:15 Douglas seems really focused on what he's doing this round. 0:4
01:26 Douglas looks to land a hook but misses the mark. 0:4
01:28 Ali continues to pop the jab 2:4
01:42 Douglas misses with that punch. 2:4
01:44 Ali rakes Douglas with some solid shots to the head and body. 5:4
01:58 You would think Muhammad Ali had a brick wall built aroud his midsection as futile as Douglas looked trying to score there! 5:4
02:09 Douglas cuts loose with a combination and the crowd roars, but the truth is none of those punches landed. Ali had his elbows tucked in nicely. 5:4
02:24 Ali usues subtle movement and a tight guard protecting his body as Douglas tries vainly to score. 5:4
02:27 Douglas takes a hard cross to the chin from Ali. 8:4
02:46 That punch actually went behind Ali's head as he moved inside of a looping shot from Douglas. 8:4
02:53 OH! Ali landed the big hook flush! 12:4
02:53 Douglas looks shaken! 12:4
03:00 Ali backs into his own corner... 12:4
03:00 Douglas misses with an uppercut from way outside. That's a dangerous punch to throw. You leave yourself wide open for a counter. 12:4
03:00 Ali appears to have this fight under control. 12:4
03:00 The final round concludes and we're going to have to await a decision to find out who won this contest. 12:4

Fight Result

Let's go to Lupe Contreras for the call...

Ladies and Gentlmen, the scorecards are in, and here is your official decision...

Andre Van Grootenbruel, Belgium scores the bout 116 to 109

Mike England, United States scores the bout 118 to 107

Michael Pernick, United States scores the bout 116 to 109

And your winner by unanimous decision Muhammad Ali!!!


Score Cards

Andre Van Grootenbruel Round Total
Belgium 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Muhammad Ali 10 9 10 10 9 10 9 10 10 10 9 10 116
Buster Douglas 9 10 9 9 10 9 10 8 8 8 10 9 109

Mike England Round Total
United States 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Muhammad Ali 10 9 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 9 10 118
Buster Douglas 9 10 9 9 9 9 9 8 8 8 10 9 107

Michael Pernick Round Total
United States 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Muhammad Ali 10 9 10 10 9 10 9 10 10 10 9 10 116
Buster Douglas 9 10 9 9 10 9 10 8 8 8 10 9 109

Round Totals Round Total
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Muhammad Ali 30 27 30 30 28 30 28 30 30 30 27 30 350
Buster Douglas 27 30 27 27 29 27 29 24 24 24 30 27 325


Statistics
Categories Muhammad Ali Buster Douglas
Knockdowns scored 3 0

Jabs / Round 7.08 2.75
Hooks / Round 3.50 2.50
Crosses / Round 5.33 2.75
Combinations / Round 5.25 2.83
Uppercuts / Round 3.50 3.25

Punches Landed / Round 24.67 14.08
Punches Missed / Round 18.92 53.17

Punching Accuracy 56.6% 20.9%

Total Number of Fouls 1 0
Low Blow 1

Foul Penalties:
Caution 1

Suffered Accidental Head Butt 1

No cuts occured

Strategies (demanded/followed)
Cover Up 0 / 0 2 / 2
Fight Inside 0 / 0 4 / 4
Fight Outside (Offensive) 0 / 0 1 / 0
Fight Outside (Defensive) 10 / 10 0 / 0
Go for KO 0 / 0 0 / 0
Go All Out for KO 0 / 0 5 / 4
Protect Cut 0 / 0 0 / 0
Take a Round Off 0 / 0 0 / 0


Title Bout Championship Boxing 2.5 - Copyright © 2008 OOTP Developments

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 21:05

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 14:58 Obviously Foreman was older and had been out for longer period of time. That's not the point.
The point is that Foreman was better after having some fights during his comeback then he was right when he came back. And he was not as good as once was.

Jack Dempsey was off three years when he fought Dempsey. He was very rusty, didn't fight well and lost badly. He won a fight with Jack Sharkey before fighting Tunney again. He was no longer quite so rusty. He did better this time than the first time, but still lost. He was not as good as he once was.

Gave you boxing and tennis. How about basketball.
Michael Jordan was out of basketball for almost two years. When he first came back, he was very rusty and didn't play near the level that he had been when he stopped. However, after a while, he started playing much better. He still was not as good as he was before he originally stopped.

And what about Ray Leonard and Tyson Fury? Somehow they don't need excuses like your boi Muh.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 12:22

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 21:05

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 14:58 Obviously Foreman was older and had been out for longer period of time. That's not the point.
The point is that Foreman was better after having some fights during his comeback then he was right when he came back. And he was not as good as once was.

Jack Dempsey was off three years when he fought Dempsey. He was very rusty, didn't fight well and lost badly. He won a fight with Jack Sharkey before fighting Tunney again. He was no longer quite so rusty. He did better this time than the first time, but still lost. He was not as good as he once was.

Gave you boxing and tennis. How about basketball.
Michael Jordan was out of basketball for almost two years. When he first came back, he was very rusty and didn't play near the level that he had been when he stopped. However, after a while, he started playing much better. He still was not as good as he was before he originally stopped.

And what about Ray Leonard and Tyson Fury? Somehow they don't need excuses like your boi Muh.

Thank for two more examples.
Leonard fought well against Hagger. However, he wasn't as good as he once was. He wasn't quite as fast and didn't as good of stamina and had to fight at a slower pace. Have never heard anyone say that his best fight was against Hagler.

Fury is a perfect example. Was off. Came back. Look at the Wilder fight, his first real test. Almost got knocked out and only got a draw. After he got rid of the ring rust he defeated Wilder. Does he look better than ever right now? Of course not.

I'm sure out there you can find an exception. However, overall this has been the rule over and over.

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:24 I got Douglas. Mike Tyson was ultimately much more physically skilled than Ali. He had more power and speed. Yet Douglas outboxed and dominated him until knocking him out with one of the most brutal combinations the sport has ever seen. That was prime Douglas.

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:25

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:24 I got Douglas. Mike Tyson was ultimately much more physically skilled than Ali. He had more power and speed. Yet Douglas outboxed and dominated him until knocking him out with one of the most brutal combinations the sport has ever seen. That was prime Douglas.

I'm guessing you are under 30.

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:34

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:25

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:24 I got Douglas. Mike Tyson was ultimately much more physically skilled than Ali. He had more power and speed. Yet Douglas outboxed and dominated him until knocking him out with one of the most brutal combinations the sport has ever seen. That was prime Douglas.

I'm guessing you are under 30.

Of course old heads like you are going to root for the old fighters of their time. Mike Tyson was a lot more talented than and would even beat Ali in a fight. He got floored by Joe Frazier. Imagine what Mike Tyson would do.

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:35

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:34

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:25

I'm guessing you are under 30.

Of course old heads like you are going to root for the old fighters of their time. Mike Tyson was a lot more talented than and would even beat Ali in a fight. He got floored by Joe Frazier. Imagine what Mike Tyson would do.

simp.

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:41

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:35

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:34
Of course old heads like you are going to root for the old fighters of their time. Mike Tyson was a lot more talented than and would even beat Ali in a fight. He got floored by Joe Frazier. Imagine what Mike Tyson would do.

simp.

Well you’re obviously much older than 30. Using slang that you don’t even know just to fit in online. You’re a sad and miserable old man. Get off the internet

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:44

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:41

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:35
simp.

Well you’re obviously much older than 30. Using slang that you don’t even know just to fit in online. You’re a sad and miserable old man. Get off the internet

Whatsamatter? Mom didn't make you any mac n cheese to go with your zwieback? Spend some of your time actually watching fights and maybe you'll actually learn something.

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:48

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:44

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:41
Well you’re obviously much older than 30. Using slang that you don’t even know just to fit in online. You’re a sad and miserable old man. Get off the internet

Whatsamatter? Mom didn't make you any mac n cheese to go with your zwieback? Spend some of your time actually watching fights and maybe you'll actually learn something.

You’re a straight cornball. I’ve actually been in a boxing gym and laced up a pair of gloves before unlike you. Watching fights doesn’t make you a fighter dustpan.

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:54

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:48

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:44
Whatsamatter? Mom didn't make you any mac n cheese to go with your zwieback? Spend some of your time actually watching fights and maybe you'll actually learn something.

You’re a straight cornball. I’ve actually been in a boxing gym and laced up a pair of gloves before unlike you. Watching fights doesn’t make you a fighter dustpan.

Fought am for several years. Your posts (thankfully few) expose your lack of boxing knowledge. Not sure I've ever posted that about anyone on the forum, but in your case it fits.

Frazier would've beaten Tyson so your triangulation is just silly. Saying Tyson was more skilled than Ali just exposes your lack of understanding of the sweet science.

LL beats them all, so your view that I favor older fighters is just as silly, and frankly ignorant. Now I'm guessing your under 25. Have a good day kid.

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:56

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:54

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:48
You’re a straight cornball. I’ve actually been in a boxing gym and laced up a pair of gloves before unlike you. Watching fights doesn’t make you a fighter dustpan.

Fought am for several years. Your posts (thankfully few) expose your lack of boxing knowledge. Not sure I've ever posted that about anyone on the forum, but in your case it fits.

Frazier would've beaten Tyson so your triangulation is just silly. Saying Tyson was more skilled than Ali just exposes your lack of understanding of the sweet science.

LL beats them all, so your view that I favor older fighters is just as silly, and frankly ignorant. Now I'm guessing your under 25. Have a good day kid.

Of course you would say that. Give us your name and record

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:57

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:56

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:54
Fought am for several years. Your posts (thankfully few) expose your lack of boxing knowledge. Not sure I've ever posted that about anyone on the forum, but in your case it fits.

Frazier would've beaten Tyson so your triangulation is just silly. Saying Tyson was more skilled than Ali just exposes your lack of understanding of the sweet science.

LL beats them all, so your view that I favor older fighters is just as silly, and frankly ignorant. Now I'm guessing your under 25. Have a good day kid.

Of course you would say that. Give us your name and record

Under 16.

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 16:02

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:57

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:56
Of course you would say that. Give us your name and record

Under 16.

Yup. Keep ducking the question and go back to commenting on pictures of girls boobs that are 45 years younger than you. You’re a lonely bum

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 16:06

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 16:02

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:57
Under 16.

Yup. Keep ducking the question and go back to commenting on pictures of girls boobs that are 45 years younger than you. You’re a lonely bum

Expecting someone to post their name on a public forum is stupid as shit. Your insults are weak at best. Stop proving your ignorance. If you want to debate boxing, that's fine. If you want to troll, go somewhere else.

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 16:12

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 16:06

920932 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 16:02
Yup. Keep ducking the question and go back to commenting on pictures of girls boobs that are 45 years younger than you. You’re a lonely bum

Expecting someone to post their name on a public forum is stupid as shit. Your insults are weak at best. Stop proving your ignorance. If you want to debate boxing, that's fine. If you want to troll, go somewhere else.

You’re the one claiming to have been an amateur boxer. Where’s the proof old man? Did you get your ass beat so bad that you forgot how to properly debate? Go back to drooling over a pair of boobs that you’ll never be able to touch. You’re washed up and it seems you still have a lot of growing up to do even at your old age. You’re a BUM!

DrDuke wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 20:42

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 12:22

DrDuke wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 21:05

And what about Ray Leonard and Tyson Fury? Somehow they don't need excuses like your boi Muh.

Thank for two more examples.
Leonard fought well against Hagger. However, he wasn't as good as he once was. He wasn't quite as fast and didn't as good of stamina and had to fight at a slower pace. Have never heard anyone say that his best fight was against Hagler.

Fury is a perfect example. Was off. Came back. Look at the Wilder fight, his first real test. Almost got knocked out and only got a draw. After he got rid of the ring rust he defeated Wilder. Does he look better than ever right now? Of course not.

I'm sure out there you can find an exception. However, overall this has been the rule over and over.

Leonard and Ali faced their hardest opponents ever, thus they logically had tough fights, but for their idiotic fanatics they were past prime.

And arguments about Wilder being the first real test, legitimacy of a draw and Fury not improving are nails in the coffin of sanity, which, however, was just barely noticeable in your posts before.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑22 Jan 2023, 14:22

DrDuke wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 20:42

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 12:22
Thank for two more examples.
Leonard fought well against Hagger. However, he wasn't as good as he once was. He wasn't quite as fast and didn't as good of stamina and had to fight at a slower pace. Have never heard anyone say that his best fight was against Hagler.

Fury is a perfect example. Was off. Came back. Look at the Wilder fight, his first real test. Almost got knocked out and only got a draw. After he got rid of the ring rust he defeated Wilder. Does he look better than ever right now? Of course not.

I'm sure out there you can find an exception. However, overall this has been the rule over and over.

Leonard and Ali faced their hardest opponents ever, thus they logically had tough fights, but for their idiotic fanatics they were past prime.

And arguments about Wilder being the first real test, legitimacy of a draw and Fury not improving are nails in the coffin of sanity, which, however, was just barely noticeable in your posts before.

Wait a minute. You are saying that Leonard wasn't past his prime against Hagler? You have to be kidding.

You don't think Wilder wasn't Fury's first real test after coming back? Really?
Even if you don't think the first Wilder fight should been a draw, you would at least have to admit that he performed better in the 2nd Wilder fight then the first, which is one the points I have been making.

Go back to Michael Jordan:
1996 In his prime his last year before he quit to play baseball.

Came back in 1998 after being off for a long time, Jordan was not nearly as good. At times actually looked bad.
1999 Wasn't as rusty. Better in 1999t than 1998, not as good as 1996.

Same with almost any boxer in Ali's situation of being off for a long time.

Not sure why this is such as hard concept.