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Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 14:51
by keithmoonhangover
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:31
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 06:26
DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 05:50
His best wins are the stiffs like Evangelista and Mercado. Apart of the cherry-picking-gone-wrong win over the faded Ali, he holds no wins over the top opposition.
As an amateur, Leon was 178–7 with 133 knockouts. When he fought Ali, he was an unbeaten Olympic champion. It doesn't matter what he did after, we're only talking about Ali's loss.
Can he be regarded as good is the question I guess? If he hadn't beaten Ali his career would have been worse that someone like Jesse Fergusson or Terrence Lewis. I don't think that would qualify him as good in the context of this thread.
Beating the lineal heavyweight champion of the world, who is a consensus top two heavyweight of all time has to mean something. Jesse Ferguson didn't do anything like that, neither did Terrence Lewis.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 14:58
by hhaehre
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:51
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:31
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 06:26
As an amateur, Leon was 178–7 with 133 knockouts. When he fought Ali, he was an unbeaten Olympic champion. It doesn't matter what he did after, we're only talking about Ali's loss.
Can he be regarded as good is the question I guess? If he hadn't beaten Ali his career would have been worse that someone like Jesse Fergusson or Terrence Lewis. I don't think that would qualify him as good in the context of this thread.
Beating the lineal heavyweight champion of the world, who is a consensus top two heavyweight of all time has to mean something. Jesse Ferguson didn't do anything like that, neither did Terrence Lewis.
By that logic every great champion who has ever lost did so to a good/great fighter.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 15:00
by keithmoonhangover
DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 10:16
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 08:05
DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 07:35
Lol what? He's ok because he was fighting only sh1thouses before?
And his Olympic achievements mean nothing. There're plenty accomplished amateurs, who failed in pros. Rademacher, Biggs, Spinks, so many of them.
The alidiots are really funny guys. We're getting more gems every day with them. Now the guy is ok, if he beat some sh1thouses before getting exposed.
No, he beat the reigning heavyweight champion of the world, who even at that stage wasn't a 'sh1thouse'. If you want to ignore his greatest achievement (which you have) then that's your business. And just because I disagree with you, it doesn't make me an Ali fan, or an 'alidiot'.
Your comments are so petty and it feels like you can't wait to slam someone and accuse them of being a 'fanboy'. That's just my take on you as a poster.
Nothing wrong with the disareement, it's wrong with annoying biased posters paraziting on the boxing forums. Production costs probably, but still stink.
This thread encourages posters to name boxers, who only lost to good/great boxers. You haven't named a single boxer, so if anyone is paraziting (I'm dislexic and even I know that ain't a word), it's you.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 15:02
by keithmoonhangover
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:58
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:51
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:31
Can he be regarded as good is the question I guess? If he hadn't beaten Ali his career would have been worse that someone like Jesse Fergusson or Terrence Lewis. I don't think that would qualify him as good in the context of this thread.
Beating the lineal heavyweight champion of the world, who is a consensus top two heavyweight of all time has to mean something. Jesse Ferguson didn't do anything like that, neither did Terrence Lewis.
By that logic every great champion who has ever lost did so to a good/great fighter.
If the person is still a great champion, then yes. You have to be pretty damn good to beat a great champion. You disagree?
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 15:07
by DrDuke
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:00
DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 10:16
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 08:05
No, he beat the reigning heavyweight champion of the world, who even at that stage wasn't a 'sh1thouse'. If you want to ignore his greatest achievement (which you have) then that's your business. And just because I disagree with you, it doesn't make me an Ali fan, or an 'alidiot'.
Your comments are so petty and it feels like you can't wait to slam someone and accuse them of being a 'fanboy'. That's just my take on you as a poster.
Nothing wrong with the disareement, it's wrong with annoying biased posters paraziting on the boxing forums. Production costs probably, but still stink.
This thread encourages posters to name boxers, who only lost to good/great boxers. You haven't named a single boxer, so if anyone is paraziting (I'm dislexic and even I know that ain't a word), it's you.
At first I responded to your suggestion. Why it's not allowed to argue on the already suggested stuff instead of proposing your own? The problem was in your counter-arguments, which absurd nature dragged the attention away from the initial subject.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 15:16
by keithmoonhangover
DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:07
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:00
DrDuke wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 10:16
Nothing wrong with the disareement, it's wrong with annoying biased posters paraziting on the boxing forums. Production costs probably, but still stink.
This thread encourages posters to name boxers, who only lost to good/great boxers. You haven't named a single boxer, so if anyone is paraziting (I'm dislexic and even I know that ain't a word), it's you.
At first I responded to your suggestion. Why it's not allowed to argue on the already suggested stuff instead of proposing your own? The problem was in your counter-arguments, which absurd nature dragged the attention away from the initial subject.
I listed Ali's losses. You took it from there.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 15:21
by hhaehre
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:02
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:58
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:51
Beating the lineal heavyweight champion of the world, who is a consensus top two heavyweight of all time has to mean something. Jesse Ferguson didn't do anything like that, neither did Terrence Lewis.
By that logic every great champion who has ever lost did so to a good/great fighter.
If the person is still a great champion, then yes. You have to be pretty damn good to beat a great champion. You disagree?
I don't think Leon Spinks was a good pro fighter. Obviously the Ali of a few years earlier would have beaten him, but in 78 he didn't. He therefore lost to a fighter that wasn't good.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 15:24
by keithmoonhangover
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:21
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:02
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 14:58
By that logic every great champion who has ever lost did so to a good/great fighter.
If the person is still a great champion, then yes. You have to be pretty damn good to beat a great champion. You disagree?
He therefore lost to a fighter that wasn't good.
That's your opinion.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 16:32
by hhaehre
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:24
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:21
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:02
If the person is still a great champion, then yes. You have to be pretty damn good to beat a great champion. You disagree?
He therefore lost to a fighter that wasn't good.
That's your opinion.
Obviously.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 16:34
by keithmoonhangover
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 16:32
keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:24
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 15:21
He therefore lost to a fighter that wasn't good.
That's your opinion.
Obviously.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 16:49
by hhaehre
Why are you here then, Saad wannabe?
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 17:31
by keithmoonhangover
hhaehre wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 16:49
Why are you here then, Saad wannabe?
I stated my opinion, you stated yours. We disagreed. What more do you want me to say?
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 24 Feb 2023, 22:43
by oogiebe
Jaywheel wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 13:07
Vargas lost to Trinidad, De la Hoya, Mosley x2 and Mayorga.
Not sure Lennox really qualifies with the losses to Rahman and McCall.
Disagree. Rahman & McCall were good fighters.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 25 Feb 2023, 01:05
by DrDuke
oogiebe wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 22:43
Jaywheel wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 13:07
Vargas lost to Trinidad, De la Hoya, Mosley x2 and Mayorga.
Not sure Lennox really qualifies with the losses to Rahman and McCall.
Disagree. Rahman & McCall were good fighters.
They were. Both hold wins over other top opponents. McCall won Damiani and Maskaev as well as the aged, but still Holmes, while Rahman was at the top level in the mix with many good fighters, he possessed the scalp of Sanders and was robbed of wins over Tua in the rematch Toney in the first bout.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 25 Feb 2023, 08:06
by keithmoonhangover
oogiebe wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 22:43
Jaywheel wrote: ↑24 Feb 2023, 13:07
Vargas lost to Trinidad, De la Hoya, Mosley x2 and Mayorga.
Not sure Lennox really qualifies with the losses to Rahman and McCall.
Disagree. Rahman & McCall were good fighters.
Yep. Good, not great.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 25 Feb 2023, 08:15
by keithmoonhangover
Maurice Blocker lost to Lloyd Honeyghan, Simon Brown, Terry Norris and Felix Trinidad. Two hall of famer's, a lineal champion and the guy who was the best man at his wedding.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 25 Feb 2023, 08:26
by keithmoonhangover
Stretching it a bit, but....... Pierre Coetzer lost to Foreman, Bruno, Bowe, Bernard Benton (an up and coming future WBC champ) and Ossie Ocasio (fresh of the Holyfield loss)
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 25 Feb 2023, 13:20
by hhaehre
Cooney lost to Holmes, Michael Spinks and Foreman.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 25 Feb 2023, 13:36
by Teddy's Toupee
Hagler.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 25 Feb 2023, 19:23
by goose 5
Sugar Ray Seales
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 25 Feb 2023, 21:43
by oogiebe
Willie the Worm is on the cusp as is Boogaloo Watts.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 26 Feb 2023, 13:46
by Teddy's Toupee
oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 21:43
Willie the Worm is on the cusp as is Boogaloo Watts.
They were good, not great.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 26 Feb 2023, 14:57
by oogiebe
Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑26 Feb 2023, 13:46
oogiebe wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 21:43
Willie the Worm is on the cusp as is Boogaloo Watts.
They were good, not great.
I'm saying cusp of good. Were they both good? Or just decent.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 05 Mar 2023, 15:31
by franciscojavier
goose 5 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2023, 19:52
Foreman and Duran and Tunney.
Duran unfortunately fought for too long and so in the later part of his career he ends up racking the losses to guys who couldn’t tie his shoes in his prime. Kirkland Laing and Robbie Sims beat him by split decision very famously.
Re: Boxers Who Only Lost To Good/Great Boxers
Posted: 05 Mar 2023, 19:26
by goose 5
Good fighters, both.