mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 15:32
Was there ever talk of him and Crawford getting it on? Were they friends?
Don't think so (to both questions) mate, it would have been an interesting match though.
Looking at their respective records; three months apart in 1991, Crawford lost to Rocchigiani for the EBU, Tom lost to Barber for the WBO.
Who would you have favoured Mickey?
I was at the Barber fight but very young. There must have been some talk of it, they're even from roughly the same area! Did Collins spar with any of the St Pats lads? They had a few around that weight.
I haven't seen enough of Collins to favour either. Nor Crawford in his earlier days. Both seem very much alike as in blowing hot and cold. Very similar careers, really, going by their records.
Wharton was on that card early 90s
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 03 Mar 2023, 17:13
by 1181567
mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 16:27
Did Collins spar with any of the St Pats lads? They had a few around that weight.
I haven't seen enough of Collins to favour either. Nor Crawford in his earlier days. Both seem very much alike as in blowing hot and cold. Very similar careers, really, going by their records.
That's a good question, I always thought Tom needed better sparring but apart from bringing in Carl Thompson in preparation for the Barber fight (and that was only for one night) I don't recall any cross gym sparring taking place (90% of Tom's sparring was with Carl Gaffney)
Adam Fogerty came over once but I think I'm right in saying he was a Callaghan fighter? (that didn't go well for Adam, who never came again)
Colin Manners started training at Compton when he was dropped by Dennie Mancini but Callaghan wouldn't let him and Tom spar for some reason.
Carl did go down to London twice to spar with Bruno (£50.00 a round I believe) but he said it was boring as he'd nothing else to do for the rest of the day
mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 16:27
Did Collins spar with any of the St Pats lads? They had a few around that weight.
I haven't seen enough of Collins to favour either. Nor Crawford in his earlier days. Both seem very much alike as in blowing hot and cold. Very similar careers, really, going by their records.
That's a good question, I always thought Tom needed better sparring but apart from bringing in Carl Thompson in preparation for the Barber fight (and that was only for one night) I don't recall any cross gym sparring taking place (90% of Tom's sparring was with Carl Gaffney)
Adam Fogerty came over once but I think I'm right in saying he was a Callaghan fighter? (that didn't go well for Adam, who never came again)
Colin Manners started training at Compton when he was dropped by Dennie Mancini but Callaghan wouldn't let him and Tom spar for some reason.
Carl did go down to London twice to spar with Bruno (£50.00 a round I believe) but he said it was boring as he'd nothing else to do for the rest of the day
It must have been politics. Collins, Ashley, Wharton, Gale, N. Manners all in the same corner of Leeds, you would have thought they would have sparred loads. I know Fogerty ended up on National Promotions shows, maybe Duff/Lawless didn't want them to.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 03 Mar 2023, 17:33
by 1181567
I think Callaghan had an issue with Duff who he always referred to as 'Monek Prager' (we all knew that was he real name Trevor) and he also had issue with Tommy Miller and Peter Coleman who had a gym above a betting shop near the old Market District.
Not sure about Fogerty (who trained him?) but he had a bad time with both Carl and Tom when he came over I'm told.
handsofstone wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 16:01
I just watched the Harding fight not long ago, highly entertaining
How Harding took those right handers I don't know, unreal durability.
That was a great couple of rounds, nothing in the fight.
Does anyone know why he quit? Knackered? Injured? Broken hearted? Or the occasion got to him?
Said at the end of the doc that the Dutchman was still unbeaten amateur and professional.
A quick check of his record disproves that!
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 17:12
by THEBUTCH
If memory serves, I think Collins claimed he got punched in the throat.
Harding v Collins was a great scrap while it lasted, but it would be an injustice to suggest Tom was in Jeff's class. There is now way on earth Collins could have coped with Harding's thirst for a fight.
I can still remember the relief in everyone willing Rod Douglas to get over the finishing line when he beat Harding in the Commonwealth games (1986 I believe). It was clear then that the inexperienced Harding was a special fighter with a bright future.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 17:19
by The Gratest
Just watched it now, thanks 118 (your username is just coming up as numbers on the site).
I just caught the tail-end of Collins' career, round the time when he challenged Barber, so didn't really know him too well. He seemed a pretty laidback kinda guy in that video!
I can vaguely remember a similar type of docu-programme from around the same time. It followed a young lad from the Ingle gym during the build up to Johny Nelson's fight against either DeLeon or Warring, I can't remember exactly which one.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 17:50
by Coco
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 17:12
If memory serves, I think Collins claimed he got punched in the throat.
Harding v Collins was a great scrap while it lasted, but it would be an injustice to suggest Tom was in Jeff's class. There is now way on earth Collins could have coped with Harding's thirst for a fight.
I can still remember the relief in everyone willing Rod Douglas to get over the finishing line when he beat Harding in the Commonwealth games (1986 I believe). It was clear then that the inexperienced Harding was a special fighter with a bright future.
For the first 2 rounds there wasn't much in it, maybe Collins had given it everything and knew the writing was on the wall
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 18:00
by 1181567
He'd caught a punch in the throat (Terry Mintus said he could barely speak or swallow for days afterwards) I think he'd 'shot his bolt' (he threw more punches in those two rounds than he usually did in twelve) and I think it's possible that Harding simply broke his heart, Tom had landed his best shots repeatedly and the bloke just kept coming.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 18:37
by JamesPhilips
1181567 wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 18:00
He'd caught a punch in the throat (Terry Mintus said he could barely speak or swallow for days afterwards) I think he'd 'shot his bolt' (he threw more punches in those two rounds than he usually did in twelve) and I think it's possible that Harding simply broke his heart, Tom had landed his best shots repeatedly and the bloke just kept coming.
To be fair Harding was one tough man….
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 18:58
by littlepug
Nice watch, Trevor was my manager and I trained for a while at the Compton Arms, never saw Collins there but used to bump into the likes of Henry Wharton, Michael Gale, Dave Redford, Lyndon Kershaw and Neil Parry.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 18:59
by mickey1975
littlepug wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 18:58
Nice watch, Trevor was my manager and I trained for a while at the Compton Arms, never saw Collins there but used to bump into the likes of Henry Wharton, Michael Gale, Dave Redford, Lyndon Kershaw and Neil Parry.
I think Henry started going there a bit when he split from Terry O’Neil.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 19:04
by JamesPhilips
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023, 13:49
Fascinating stuff.
I seem to recall it was the right hand bomb that effectively brought about the stoppage of high flying Tony Wilson when Collins reclaimed the British title. Great win !
In fairness to Harding, who was world class....Collins wouldn't have beaten him in a month of Sundays. Jeff was super tough, had a great chin and whose marauding, two fisted style was all wrong for Tom.
I don’t agree. Collins had Harding badly hurt on 3 occasions. It was a real war. Still not sure why Collins retired. It was a real back and forth fight
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 19:14
by 1181567
littlepug wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 18:58
Nice watch, Trevor was my manager and I trained for a while at the Compton Arms, never saw Collins there but used to bump into the likes of Henry Wharton, Michael Gale, Dave Redford, Lyndon Kershaw and Neil Parry.
Lyndon was a lovely kid, cracking little boxer as well but he was let down by his lack of power, really sad what happened to him.
Did you hear about his fall out with Callaghan and how him and his henchman Jimmy Moore went to visit him?
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 19:18
by margaret thatcher
harding forced collins to work far harder than he would've liked, think tom just didnt have it in him for more even though he'd had success. whenever he had a big moment harding would be right back in his face punching him
collins with the power but not the temperament for that level
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 19:23
by JamesPhilips
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 19:18
harding forced collins to work far harder than he would've liked, think tom just didnt have it in him for more even though he'd had success. whenever he had a big moment harding would be right back in his face punching him
Hading was ridiculously tough
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 19:24
by margaret thatcher
indeed, got wobelled and then would be right back in your face beating you up. a nightmare for a lazy fighter
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 19:24
by 1181567
The Gratest wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 17:19
Just watched it now, thanks 118 (your username is just coming up as numbers on the site).
I just caught the tail-end of Collins' career, round the time when he challenged Barber, so didn't really know him too well. He seemed a pretty laidback kinda guy in that video!
I can vaguely remember a similar type of docu-programme from around the same time. It followed a young lad from the Ingle gym during the build up to Johny Nelson's fight against either DeLeon or Warring, I can't remember exactly which one.
The numbers were allocated randomly when I signed up using my Google account (I wonder if I can get a 'proper' name?)
I think this may be the documentary you're referring to mate (still interesting even if it's not)
littlepug wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 18:58
Nice watch, Trevor was my manager and I trained for a while at the Compton Arms, never saw Collins there but used to bump into the likes of Henry Wharton, Michael Gale, Dave Redford, Lyndon Kershaw and Neil Parry.
Lyndon was a lovely kid, cracking little boxer as well but he was let down by his lack of power, really sad what happened to him.
Did you hear about his fall out with Callaghan and how him and his henchman Jimmy Moore went to visit him?
Aye I heard about all that stuff, I knew Lyndon well as we boxed for same amateur club, we must’ve done thousands of rounds sparring together over the years and a few scuffles outside the ring too! He could be a rascal but was a good lad at heart and we actually got on really well after a rocky start, was a shame how it ended for him but he was pretty heartbroken by then from the deaths of his brother and mum so a happy ending was always unlikely.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 20:02
by 1181567
littlepug wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 19:36
Aye I heard about all that stuff, I knew Lyndon well as we boxed for same amateur club, we must’ve done thousands of rounds sparring together over the years and a few scuffles outside the ring too! He could be a rascal but was a good lad at heart and we actually got on really well after a rocky start, was a shame how it ended for him but he was pretty heartbroken by then from the deaths of his brother and mum so a happy ending was always unlikely.
I started training at another gym (due to Callaghan f*cking me about over my license) and then I turned it in after endless injury problems, I started popping into the Compton during the day just to keep fit when I met Lyndon, he looked about fourteen and I thought he was one of the Compton amateurs, I was amazed when he said his real age and he due to turn pro.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 04 Mar 2023, 20:03
by 1181567
Going off topic here but I think this is worth a watch for anyone who hasn't seen it.
Re: Tom Collins Documentary
Posted: 05 Mar 2023, 05:09
by littlepug
1181567 wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 20:03
Going off topic here but I think this is worth a watch for anyone who hasn't seen it.
That was a great win for him, how he used to boil down to flyweight I’ll never know, well I do cos he barely ate, like you said though he was weak as a kitten, he got a shot at area title after this but couldn’t get past the tough Louis Veitch.
(your username is just coming up as numbers on the site).