BoxRec Forum HW Top 15 ranking - Joshua vs. Franklin

[DrDuke]

No change for Joshua
Franklin in at #12

Lol, are you that guy, who voted for Franklin to enter the top after the Whyte loss? Now you vote for him in after the 2nd loss in a row. The more the blob loses, the higher you are on him.

[oogiebe]

No change for Joshua
Franklin in at #12

Lol, are you that guy, who voted for Franklin to enter the top after the Whyte loss? Now you vote for him in after the 2nd loss in a row. The more the blob loses, the higher you are on him.

a few more losses and he'll be top 3

[marvelous marv]

If Joshua's trainer and promoter are saying he isn't ready for Fury or Wilder, they should both be ranked ahead of him.

[Perkin Warbeck]

Joshua to #5 with Wilder and Joyce each moving up to #3 and #4

(Obviously Wilder was more impressive in his comeback fight than Joshua, and Joyce was more impressive against a better opponent than Franklin in his last fight)

Franklin remains out.

[JonnyKupfer]

Joshua down to 5.
Franklin remains out.

[Thomastearns]

I'd certainly put Franklin in at 10 after he's just gone 24 rounds with Whyte and Joshua.

Believe it or not, sometimes a loss can actually improve your standing.

Besides only the top 6 in that list look convincing.

Daniel Dubois looks like an omission and you could argue that only Joyce, Bakole and Sanchez look like they're still climbing.

All in all, it's beginning to look like a stale top 10 with only Usyk, who should be no 1, breaking through to the very top in recent times.

I've no problem with AJ at 2 and Joyce at 3.

Fury and Wilder are more problematic, but 4 and 5 seems fair after 2 close fights out of 3.

[Lackeos]

@DrDuke I've already informed you that I have you blocked. So it would be goofy of you to keep this rivalry going on in your head. I literally can't see your posts except on the off chance that someone quotes them. So you're literally beefing with someone who doesn't even see your existence.

No change for Joshua
Franklin in at #12

Why would you enter him on a clear loss?

Because it was a performance worthy of #12 or better. I don't autistically believe that a fighter can't move up with a loss or can't move down with a win. That's extremely robotic thinking, without any of the nuance that humans are supposed to be capable of. If you get a SD loss against the #1 fighter, you might belong at #2. Joshua KO'ed Povetkin, Pulev, Wlad, Takam, won 10 rounds against Parker, won 10 rounds against Ruiz, and won 9 rounds against Franklin. If a then-undefeated fighter outside the top 15 pulled an SD loss to prime Pacquiao, followed it up with an SD loss to prime Mayweather, and then got an SD loss to prime Pacquiao in a rematch; would you just keep him out of the top 15? Would you do that even if the #5 fighter lost 12-0 against the same opponents? If a fighter had no good wins, but his only losses were close losses to prime Duran, Leonard, and Hearns, would you keep him out of the top 15? Actually, 15 is an arbitrary number anyway. If you're gonna have a rule that a fighter can't enter the top N on a loss, why make that number N = 15? Would you keep him out of the top 20 as well? Would you keep him out of the top 50? What's the point in having an imaginary line and saying you can't cross this specific rank on a loss? Rank fighters based on where they should be ranked, not based on stupid, arbitrary rules that lead to inaccurate rankings.

Which, btw, if you've posted on her over 71,000 times, then why do I need to explain this to you? I'd understand if you were like 10 years old and just started watching boxing. But if you discuss boxing this much, then today shouldn't be the first time you've ever been exposed to this concept.

[DrDuke]

@DrDuke I've already informed you that I have you blocked. So it would be goofy of you to keep this rivalry going on in your head. I literally can't see your posts except on the off chance that someone quotes them. So you're literally beefing with someone who doesn't even see your existence.

I block ya, but answer ya.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Because it was a performance worthy of #12 or better. I don't autistically believe that a fighter can't move up with a loss or can't move down with a win. That's extremely robotic thinking, without any of the nuance that humans are supposed to be capable of. If you get a SD loss against the #1 fighter, you might belong at #2. Joshua KO'ed Povetkin, Pulev, Wlad, Takam, won 10 rounds against Parker, won 10 rounds against Ruiz, and won 9 rounds against Franklin. If a then-undefeated fighter outside the top 15 pulled an SD loss to prime Pacquiao, followed it up with an SD loss to prime Mayweather, and then got an SD loss to prime Pacquiao in a rematch; would you just keep him out of the top 15? Would you do that even if the #5 fighter lost 12-0 against the same opponents? If a fighter had no good wins, but his only losses were close losses to prime Duran, Leonard, and Hearns, would you keep him out of the top 15? Actually, 15 is an arbitrary number anyway. If you're gonna have a rule that a fighter can't enter the top N on a loss, why make that number N = 15? Would you keep him out of the top 20 as well? Would you keep him out of the top 50? What's the point in having an imaginary line and saying you can't cross this specific rank on a loss ? Rank fighters based on where they should be ranked, not based on stupid, arbitrary rules that lead to inaccurate rankings.

Which, btw, if you've posted on her over 71,000 times, then why do I need to explain this to you? I'd understand if you were like 10 years old and just started watching boxing. But if you discuss boxing this much, then today shouldn't be the first time you've ever been exposed to this concept.

As you said, it’s a forum. I only aske for ur reasoning. You gave me that.

[Ruthless-RKO]

The vote is over.

No Change.

Current ranking:
Tyson Fury - 33(24) 0 1 - next fight: TBA

2. Oleksandr Usyk - 20(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

3. Anthony Joshua - 25(22) 3(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

4. Deontay Wilder - 43(42) 2(2) 1 - next fight: TBA

5. Joe Joyce - 15(14) 0 0 - next fight: 15.04.2023 vs. Zhilei Zhang - 24(19) 1(0) 1 - (BoxRec's #30)

6. Andy Ruiz Jr - 35(22) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

7. Joseph Parker - 31(21) 3(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

8. Dillian Whyte - 29(19) 3(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Martin Bakole - 18(13) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Luis Ortiz - 33(28) 3(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Frank Sanchez - 21(14) 0 0 - next fight: 08.04.2023 vs. Daniel Martz - 20(17) 10(9) 1 - (unranked, Inactive)

12. Kubrat Pulev - 29(14) 3(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Filip Hrgovic - 15(12) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Dereck Chisora - 33(23) 13(4) 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Efe Ajagba - 17(13) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA
----------

Upcoming Heavyweight Fights

08.04.2023 - Jared Anderson - 13(13) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #31) vs. George Arias - 18(7) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #32)

03.06.2023 - Zhan Kossobutskiy - 19(18) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #27) vs. TBA - 0(0) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #)

[Ruthless-RKO]

Was majority votes for 3, some votes for 5.

I reckon in a weeks time, depending on how Joyce performs against Zhang, he'll be voted to #3.

[Ruthless-RKO]

22.04.2023 - Charles Martin - 29(26) 3(2) 1 - (BoxRec's #39) vs. Gurgen Hovhannisyan - 4(4) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #59)

This fight is off..

Gurgen is injured..

[watsupdoc87]

22.04.2023 - Charles Martin - 29(26) 3(2) 1 - (BoxRec's #39) vs. Gurgen Hovhannisyan - 4(4) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #59)

This fight is off..

Gurgen is injured..

Why was Martin a former world champ ( a terrible one) taking on a guy with a 4 and 0 record?

[Ruthless-RKO]

22.04.2023 - Charles Martin - 29(26) 3(2) 1 - (BoxRec's #39) vs. Gurgen Hovhannisyan - 4(4) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #59)

This fight is off..

Gurgen is injured..

Why was Martin a former world champ ( a terrible one) taking on a guy with a 4 and 0 record?

He was probably getting paid a lot of money.

[joshj909]

22.04.2023 - Charles Martin - 29(26) 3(2) 1 - (BoxRec's #39) vs. Gurgen Hovhannisyan - 4(4) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #59)

This fight is off..

Gurgen is injured..

Damn, was intrigued by that one.

[Finkel]

No change

[oogiebe]

22.04.2023 - Charles Martin - 29(26) 3(2) 1 - (BoxRec's #39) vs. Gurgen Hovhannisyan - 4(4) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #59)

This fight is off..

Gurgen is injured..

Why was Martin a former world champ ( a terrible one) taking on a guy with a 4 and 0 record?

and how was this guy ranked 59 by boxrec!?

[gregregegg]

22.04.2023 - Charles Martin - 29(26) 3(2) 1 - (BoxRec's #39) vs. Gurgen Hovhannisyan - 4(4) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #59)

This fight is off..

Gurgen is injured..

Why was Martin a former world champ ( a terrible one) taking on a guy with a 4 and 0 record?

and how was this guy ranked 59 by boxrec!?

knocked out Coffe who had a decent rank.

[oogiebe]

Why was Martin a former world champ ( a terrible one) taking on a guy with a 4 and 0 record?

and how was this guy ranked 59 by boxrec!?

knocked out Coffe who had a decent rank.

Coffee was already thrashed about. Seems silly to me, yeah?

[margaret thatcher]

nah, to be 59th at hw you just have to beat a guy who can stand on his own

[oogiebe]

nah, to be 59th at hw you just have to beat a guy who can stand on his own

true, it's a bit thin in that division. A wee bit.

[Lackeos]

and how was this guy ranked 59 by boxrec!?

knocked out Coffe who had a decent rank.

Coffee was already thrashed about. Seems silly to me, yeah?

You're implying that a #39 dude can never fight someone ranked as low as #59. That's not a reasonable standard. Go pull up a similarly ranked fighter like #35-ranked Arslan Yallyev; was his last opponent ranked higher than #59? It's one thing to ask a current champ not to make a title defense against a #59-ranked opponent (and even then, Wilder had some awful defenses). But it wouldn't be surprising at all to see a #39-ranked boxer fight someone who is ranked #100 or 200; e.g. Agit Kabayel vs Pavel Sour, Zhan Kossobutsky vs Hussein Muhamed, Stephan Shaw vs Bernardo Marquez, or Michael Hunter vs Shawn Laughery.

More commentary on Charles Martin. His championship run was more than 7 years ago. He only had 1 title win, and it was against a guy who suffered a fluke knee injury at the beginning of the fight (so basically 0 legit title wins). And he has caught 3 losses since then; although not too terrible of losses, but the one against Kownacki isn't great.

[oogiebe]

knocked out Coffe who had a decent rank.

Coffee was already thrashed about. Seems silly to me, yeah?

You're implying that a #39 dude can never fight someone ranked as low as #59. That's not a reasonable standard. Go pull up a similarly ranked fighter like #35-ranked Arslan Yallyev; was his last opponent ranked higher than #59? It's one thing to ask a current champ not to make a title defense against a #59-ranked opponent (and even then, Wilder had some awful defenses). But it wouldn't be surprising at all to see a #39-ranked boxer fight someone who is ranked #100 or 200; e.g. Agit Kabayel vs Pavel Sour, Zhan Kossobutsky vs Hussein Muhamed, Stephan Shaw vs Bernardo Marquez, or Michael Hunter vs Shawn Laughery.

More commentary on Charles Martin. His championship run was more than 7 years ago. He only had 1 title win, and it was against a guy who suffered a fluke knee injury at the beginning of the fight (so basically 0 legit title wins). And he has caught 3 losses since then; although not too terrible of losses, but the one against Kownacki isn't great.

Your first sentence is incorrect. Dude is like 4-0 and ranked that highly is what I'm saying is silly.

[margaret thatcher]

going down the list of the guys ranked below him, id say there arent really glaring cases where lower ranked dudes should be ahead at the moment, when you're getting that far down the rankings stopping polite coffie recently actually means a bit. PC himself is in at 76

it's not like 59 is all that meaningful of a rank at hw these days

[gregregegg]

Coffee was already thrashed about. Seems silly to me, yeah?

You're implying that a #39 dude can never fight someone ranked as low as #59. That's not a reasonable standard. Go pull up a similarly ranked fighter like #35-ranked Arslan Yallyev; was his last opponent ranked higher than #59? It's one thing to ask a current champ not to make a title defense against a #59-ranked opponent (and even then, Wilder had some awful defenses). But it wouldn't be surprising at all to see a #39-ranked boxer fight someone who is ranked #100 or 200; e.g. Agit Kabayel vs Pavel Sour, Zhan Kossobutsky vs Hussein Muhamed, Stephan Shaw vs Bernardo Marquez, or Michael Hunter vs Shawn Laughery.

More commentary on Charles Martin. His championship run was more than 7 years ago. He only had 1 title win, and it was against a guy who suffered a fluke knee injury at the beginning of the fight (so basically 0 legit title wins). And he has caught 3 losses since then; although not too terrible of losses, but the one against Kownacki isn't great.

Your first sentence is incorrect. Dude is like 4-0 and ranked that highly is what I'm saying is silly.

Loma was top 3 and 3-1…. It’s about opponents, fight 4 semi decent guys at heavy will get ya well into top 100…