BoxRec

Jaguar wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 10:44

1173348 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 08:18

Jaguar wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 04:23

Ulric Regis died after fighting Bugner. It was very early in Bugner's career, he'd only have been 18 or 19. I've heard it said that it always caused Bugner to hold back and maybe that's true. But it's hard to say because we don't know how things would have panned out in different circumstances.

Either way, I've just checked Bugner's record and he was in the ring again two weeks after the Regis fight, stopping Lion Ven in five rounds. Which is staggering really.

Regarding punching power, Bugner always struggled to put his weight behind his punches. Nobody knows why. He tended to throw arm punches. Some heavyweights are just like that.

It's amazing that Joe had this problem, given his size, physical strength, and athleticism. But it's not uncommon among heavyweights. Not every boxer is a naturally born puncher.

Lots of observers believed Bugner may have been a tad musclebound, that there was some reason for his physical stiffness in the ring. That's what we're really talking about concerning his punching difficulties.

Of course, sometimes Joe would really sit on this punches, and when that happened, he could hurt or KO almost anyone. Certainly he had the potential to throw genuine power shots. But most of the time he couldn't.

I've always believed Bugner's problem with punching power was nature, and not in his head.

If it was nature then he wouldn't have been able to punch hard, ever. But, as you say above:

"sometimes Joe would really sit on this punches, and when that happened, he could hurt or KO almost anyone. Certainly he had the potential to throw genuine power shots"

If this is the case, it must logically have been a mental or emotional issue. At least to some degree.

I respectfully disagree.

Consider the example of MLB players known for their high batting averages. Those guys slip in and out of phases in which they're either going great - hitting the ball consistently - or choking, meaning their game's off and they're striking out. Fighters are like baseball players in this respect.

Even for world-class boxers (like Bugner), it's not necessarily easy to always throw punches with perfect leverage. For some fighters this comes more naturally than for others. Bugner was among those who, for whatever reason, it didn't happen naturally or consistently.

1173348 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 16:45

Jaguar wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 10:44

1173348 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 08:18

Regarding punching power, Bugner always struggled to put his weight behind his punches. Nobody knows why. He tended to throw arm punches. Some heavyweights are just like that.

It's amazing that Joe had this problem, given his size, physical strength, and athleticism. But it's not uncommon among heavyweights. Not every boxer is a naturally born puncher.

Lots of observers believed Bugner may have been a tad musclebound, that there was some reason for his physical stiffness in the ring. That's what we're really talking about concerning his punching difficulties.

Of course, sometimes Joe would really sit on this punches, and when that happened, he could hurt or KO almost anyone. Certainly he had the potential to throw genuine power shots. But most of the time he couldn't.

I've always believed Bugner's problem with punching power was nature, and not in his head.

If it was nature then he wouldn't have been able to punch hard, ever. But, as you say above:

"sometimes Joe would really sit on this punches, and when that happened, he could hurt or KO almost anyone. Certainly he had the potential to throw genuine power shots"

If this is the case, it must logically have been a mental or emotional issue. At least to some degree.

I respectfully disagree.

Consider the example of MLB players known for their high batting averages. Those guys slip in and out of phases in which they're either going great - hitting the ball consistently - or choking, meaning their game's off and they're striking out. Fighters are like baseball players in this respect.

Even for world-class boxers (like Bugner), it's not necessarily easy to always throw punches with perfect leverage. For some fighters this comes more naturally than for others. Bugner was among those who, for whatever reason, it didn't happen naturally or consistently.

Your MLB example is another instance of a problem being mental and/or emotional. It is purely physical they wouldn't be slipping in and out phases. They just wouldn't be able to do it all.

Jaguar wrote: ↑27 Apr 2023, 07:44
Your MLB example is another instance of a problem being mental and/or emotional. It is purely physical they wouldn't be slipping in and out phases. They just wouldn't be able to do it all.

This question - about Bugner's relative stiffness and power inconsistency - was addressed many times in London Times articles during the 1970s. That's the source of my info.

The fight scribes working for LT knew their stuff. Sometimes they were needlessly nasty and not as favorably disposed toward Bugner as they should have been. But they were still reliable boxing critics, IMO.

You should go to your local library and look up the many Bugner articles on London Times microfilm articles. You'll see where I'm coming from regarding my POV on Bugner's power/lack of power.

One 1975 LT article about Joe, written just before the Ali fight in Kuala Lampur, was particularly interesting. The LT writer observed Bugner in training camp, and described Joe's left-jab as being straight and fast as a "beam of light." That's quite a compliment. Bugner could certainly jab.

But in that same article, the scribe described Bugner's right cross as looking like an "angry man slamming a door shut." In other words, something awkward and misbalanced in the way Bugner loaded up on that shot. Stiff, forced, not quite smooth, snapping, and natural. Basically an "arm punch."

So I stick to my words regarding Bugner's lack of punching power, or inconsistency of power (whichever way you look at it).

Inconsistency, yes. Absolute lack of power no. That's the point, they're not the same thing.

Bugner though, he'll always be one of those 'what if' fighters.