BoxRec

Well done to Zhang; he boxed a great fight.

Gutted for Joyce though; one of the few guys that doesn't just sit on his ranking and is prepared to take tough challenges.

He's still tough, but he's going to have to modify his fighting style because he cannot keep using his head as target practice for his opponents.

He needs to copy the Old Mongoose, or Big George Foreman and adopt the cross arm defence and work behind a ramrod jab.

It's interesting that Joyce is pondering taking another fight before rematching Zhang.

I don't know what to make of that, because most people would want an immediate rematch and it's very unJoycelike to not want the biggest fight possible.

As for Zhang, he's well and truly on the map.

I can't see him troubling Fury or Usyk, but he's certainly a cat amongst the Wilder, Ruiz and Joshua pigeons.

If I was part of Joyce's team I would be advising him against taking the immediate rematch. I know the situation is very different but rematching Thompson straight-away didn't do Price any favours and I think, unless Joyce suddenly learns some defence we may well end up with a similar result.

It's tricky for Zhang now, he probably has at least 18 months to wait for his mandatory shot and that's assuming that Fury and Usyk don't fight and have the inevitable rematch.

Syntax Error wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 10:59 Well done to Zhang; he boxed a great fight.

Gutted for Joyce though; one of the few guys that doesn't just sit on his ranking and is prepared to take tough challenges.

He's still tough, but he's going to have to modify his fighting style because he cannot keep using his head as target practice for his opponents.

He needs to copy the Old Mongoose, or Big George Foreman and adopt the cross arm defence and work behind a ramrod jab.

It's interesting that Joyce is pondering taking another fight before rematching Zhang.

I don't know what to make of that, because most people would want an immediate rematch and it's very unJoycelike to not want the biggest fight possible.

As for Zhang, he's well and truly on the map.

I can't see him troubling Fury or Usyk, but he's certainly a cat amongst the Wilder, Ruiz and Joshua pigeons.

It's a shame Joyce is so old - he has very little time to bounce back from this loss.

I wish more of the big guys would turn pro sooner, rather than staying in the amateur code.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:26

Syntax Error wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 10:59 Well done to Zhang; he boxed a great fight.

Gutted for Joyce though; one of the few guys that doesn't just sit on his ranking and is prepared to take tough challenges.

He's still tough, but he's going to have to modify his fighting style because he cannot keep using his head as target practice for his opponents.

He needs to copy the Old Mongoose, or Big George Foreman and adopt the cross arm defence and work behind a ramrod jab.

It's interesting that Joyce is pondering taking another fight before rematching Zhang.

I don't know what to make of that, because most people would want an immediate rematch and it's very unJoycelike to not want the biggest fight possible.

As for Zhang, he's well and truly on the map.

I can't see him troubling Fury or Usyk, but he's certainly a cat amongst the Wilder, Ruiz and Joshua pigeons.

It's a shame Joyce is so old - he has very little time to bounce back from this loss.

I wish more of the big guys would turn pro sooner, rather than staying in the amateur code.

Spot on, it's a real shame for him.

He's a warrior and a nice guy to boot.

He may have actually gone over the cliff edge, which is not surprising at 37/38.

He certainly looked old yesterday.

It would hardly be surprising at his age.

Punch resistance seeminly evaporates overnight with some fighter, he seemed to walk through big shots before, but then those shots probably all had their effect on him neurologically, and maybe that's why he seemed to get hurt pretty quickly.

Also though Zhang's straight left was very well thrown from a nice compact stance, with the shoulder behind it, so probably carried a lot of weight behind it too.

One thing I did notice yesterday, was that Joyce seemed to throw a lot of arm punches, there wasn't much rotation on any of the shots, so he wasn't getting a lot of force behind them.

Maybe he had an off night, maybe he's done, he won't get many chances to prove or disprove those statements at his age. I hope he doesn't fight on too long, with his style he's likely to end up a total cabbage.

chinarich wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:18 If I was part of Joyce's team I would be advising him against taking the immediate rematch. I know the situation is very different but rematching Thompson straight-away didn't do Price any favours and I think, unless Joyce suddenly learns some defence we may well end up with a similar result.

It's tricky for Zhang now, he probably has at least 18 months to wait for his mandatory shot and that's assuming that Fury and Usyk don't fight and have the inevitable rematch.

Then ‘S Jam’ muppets who manage Joyce are clueless and always have been. The Will from the Inbetweeners lookalike is his manager and he’s a lawyer.

Salas is a good trainer for 8 stone North Americans, not heavyweights.

Zhang best to keep busy and take fights. Waiting for Godot waiting for a title shot not very wise at 39.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:57 It would hardly be surprising at his age.

Punch resistance seeminly evaporates overnight with some fighter, he seemed to walk through big shots before, but then those shots probably all had their effect on him neurologically, and maybe that's why he seemed to get hurt pretty quickly.

Also though Zhang's straight left was very well thrown from a nice compact stance, with the shoulder behind it, so probably carried a lot of weight behind it too.

One thing I did notice yesterday, was that Joyce seemed to throw a lot of arm punches, there wasn't much rotation on any of the shots, so he wasn't getting a lot of force behind them.

Maybe he had an off night, maybe he's done, he won't get many chances to prove or disprove those statements at his age. I hope he doesn't fight on too long, with his style he's likely to end up a total cabbage.

I don't think he's done a few months after putting in a career best performance. For me it's a styles make fights situation. The problem was the southpaw style with everything in reverse, not knowing how to set up the punches, not knowing where to put his feet or when to throw which punches against a southpaw. Zhang used the angles well and had very straight fast punches that kept smashing the nail on the button.

Joyce isn't the most skillful at the best of times and this style was all wrong for him.

It's sad you have a boxer who will take on all comers and he's punished for a loss against a dangerous opponent.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 14:13

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:57 It would hardly be surprising at his age.

Punch resistance seeminly evaporates overnight with some fighter, he seemed to walk through big shots before, but then those shots probably all had their effect on him neurologically, and maybe that's why he seemed to get hurt pretty quickly.

Also though Zhang's straight left was very well thrown from a nice compact stance, with the shoulder behind it, so probably carried a lot of weight behind it too.

One thing I did notice yesterday, was that Joyce seemed to throw a lot of arm punches, there wasn't much rotation on any of the shots, so he wasn't getting a lot of force behind them.

Maybe he had an off night, maybe he's done, he won't get many chances to prove or disprove those statements at his age. I hope he doesn't fight on too long, with his style he's likely to end up a total cabbage.

I don't think he's done a few months after putting in a career best performance. For me it's a styles make fights situation. The problem was the southpaw style with everything in reverse, not knowing how to set up the punches, not knowing where to put his feet or when to throw which punches against a southpaw. Zhang used the angles well and had very straight fast punches that kept smashing the nail on the button.

Joyce isn't the most skillful at the best of times and this style was all wrong for him.

It's sad you have a boxer who will take on all comers and he's punished for a loss against a dangerous opponent.

Joe Joyce medalled in every available championship as an amateur, he must have beaten a few southpaws along the way. I don't think people are punishing Joyce here but time is not on his side to be able to rebuild.

Zhang needs to be in the world title mix.

I watched him box to a draw vs Forrest a few years back and thought he sucked. But his performance against Hrgovic was very good, and he looked great last night too. Quick accurate hands, long lefts that find the target, some nice combos. Great chin, well schooled.

He's not going to be an easy night for anyone.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 14:13

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:57 It would hardly be surprising at his age.

Punch resistance seeminly evaporates overnight with some fighter, he seemed to walk through big shots before, but then those shots probably all had their effect on him neurologically, and maybe that's why he seemed to get hurt pretty quickly.

Also though Zhang's straight left was very well thrown from a nice compact stance, with the shoulder behind it, so probably carried a lot of weight behind it too.

One thing I did notice yesterday, was that Joyce seemed to throw a lot of arm punches, there wasn't much rotation on any of the shots, so he wasn't getting a lot of force behind them.

Maybe he had an off night, maybe he's done, he won't get many chances to prove or disprove those statements at his age. I hope he doesn't fight on too long, with his style he's likely to end up a total cabbage.

I don't think he's done a few months after putting in a career best performance. For me it's a styles make fights situation. The problem was the southpaw style with everything in reverse, not knowing how to set up the punches, not knowing where to put his feet or when to throw which punches against a southpaw. Zhang used the angles well and had very straight fast punches that kept smashing the nail on the button.

Joyce isn't the most skillful at the best of times and this style was all wrong for him.

It's sad you have a boxer who will take on all comers and he's punished for a loss against a dangerous opponent.

But he knew he was prepping for a southpaw, im sure he had southpaws in sparring in prep, hed have been mad not to.

I think he relied on Zhang not being able to put a dent in him, which proved to he foolhardy.

He should have been popping to his left and poping the jab from that angle, to set up a big right, but he just stood square on eating left hands. Very poor tactics, or maybe he was just unable to execute.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 15:47

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 14:13

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:57 It would hardly be surprising at his age.

Punch resistance seeminly evaporates overnight with some fighter, he seemed to walk through big shots before, but then those shots probably all had their effect on him neurologically, and maybe that's why he seemed to get hurt pretty quickly.

Also though Zhang's straight left was very well thrown from a nice compact stance, with the shoulder behind it, so probably carried a lot of weight behind it too.

One thing I did notice yesterday, was that Joyce seemed to throw a lot of arm punches, there wasn't much rotation on any of the shots, so he wasn't getting a lot of force behind them.

Maybe he had an off night, maybe he's done, he won't get many chances to prove or disprove those statements at his age. I hope he doesn't fight on too long, with his style he's likely to end up a total cabbage.

I don't think he's done a few months after putting in a career best performance. For me it's a styles make fights situation. The problem was the southpaw style with everything in reverse, not knowing how to set up the punches, not knowing where to put his feet or when to throw which punches against a southpaw. Zhang used the angles well and had very straight fast punches that kept smashing the nail on the button.

Joyce isn't the most skillful at the best of times and this style was all wrong for him.

It's sad you have a boxer who will take on all comers and he's punished for a loss against a dangerous opponent.

But he knew he was prepping for a southpaw, im sure he had southpaws in sparring in prep, hed have been mad not to.

I think he relied on Zhang not being able to put a dent in him, which proved to he foolhardy.

He should have been popping to his left and poping the jab from that angle, to set up a big right, but he just stood square on eating left hands. Very poor tactics, or maybe he was just unable to execute.

I don't think Joyce can execute the angles, he always seems very front on and marching forward, completely wrong for a southpaw or for an orthodox throwing unconventionally.

I just watched it on YouTube after catching an unlikely headline about Zhilei Zhang 'calling out' Tyson Fury. It made me watch the fight.

Tbh I thought JJ looked uninterested, he began like he was just not up for thus fight at all. He was painfully slow and was telegraphing every punch he threw. It was the third round before he started to show his usual relentlessness but even then he was just catching gloves or elbows most of the time if he wasn't missing altogether whereas ZZ was throwing much less but what he did throw had a tendency to cut straight through JJ's guard.

I think the fight was lost in the first 2 rounds. That's when the damage to the eye was done.

Without that and given ZZ's stamina issues (he was throwing less and less as the match went on) I think Joe would have saved this fight.

Only Boxrecer to pick Zhang on points.

The eye was the issue , but if they fought again tomoro same would happen probably quicker , Joe just had NO IDEA against a southpaw it was has simple has that , Joe comes forward and does'nt move his head relys on toughness and against a southpaw who can hit thats suicide has he found out ,, It was actually cringworthy to see him getting hit at will with them straight lefts ,, Zang just stood there allowed JJ to punch catch them on the arms and reply with a straight left right hook , just typical , basic southpaw stuff , yet JJ had NO IDEA how to combat that .

One rnd i counted 14-16 punches JJ threw , landed a grand total of NON then boom got hit with two heavy shots , straight after straight left and right hook . then Zang moved and JJ done the same .

Don't know who trains JJ but if they have'nt picked up JJ cannot handle a southpaw and needs to learn and learn fast , well maybee JJ needs to go elswhere , it was like a novice and a pro in there , with the pro not getting hit and landing when he felt like it

chinarich wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 15:58

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 15:47

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 14:13

I don't think he's done a few months after putting in a career best performance. For me it's a styles make fights situation. The problem was the southpaw style with everything in reverse, not knowing how to set up the punches, not knowing where to put his feet or when to throw which punches against a southpaw. Zhang used the angles well and had very straight fast punches that kept smashing the nail on the button.

Joyce isn't the most skillful at the best of times and this style was all wrong for him.

It's sad you have a boxer who will take on all comers and he's punished for a loss against a dangerous opponent.

But he knew he was prepping for a southpaw, im sure he had southpaws in sparring in prep, hed have been mad not to.

I think he relied on Zhang not being able to put a dent in him, which proved to he foolhardy.

He should have been popping to his left and poping the jab from that angle, to set up a big right, but he just stood square on eating left hands. Very poor tactics, or maybe he was just unable to execute.

I don't think Joyce can execute the angles, he always seems very front on and marching forward, completely wrong for a southpaw or for an orthodox throwing unconventionally.

He can surely sidestep left and pivot right, its not that hard, although he has very slow feet so maybe hes just not capable/comfortable doing that. Its not like zhang is fcking wayne sleep is it?

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:57 It would hardly be surprising at his age.

Punch resistance seeminly evaporates overnight with some fighter, he seemed to walk through big shots before, but then those shots probably all had their effect on him neurologically, and maybe that's why he seemed to get hurt pretty quickly.

Also though Zhang's straight left was very well thrown from a nice compact stance, with the shoulder behind it, so probably carried a lot of weight behind it too.

One thing I did notice yesterday, was that Joyce seemed to throw a lot of arm punches, there wasn't much rotation on any of the shots, so he wasn't getting a lot of force behind them.

Maybe he had an off night, maybe he's done, he won't get many chances to prove or disprove those statements at his age. I hope he doesn't fight on too long, with his style he's likely to end up a total cabbage.

Agree it stood out by a mile that JJ had nothing in a lot of them punches , especiely to the body it was all arm no weight behind the punches , think in hindsight , his lack of correct delivery with a lot of his punches his inability and no idea what to do against a southpaw , , i fail to see how this has not been picked up in the gym and fixed , , taking nothing away from Zang , but JJ needs another trainer

coneye wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 20:43

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:57 It would hardly be surprising at his age.

Punch resistance seeminly evaporates overnight with some fighter, he seemed to walk through big shots before, but then those shots probably all had their effect on him neurologically, and maybe that's why he seemed to get hurt pretty quickly.

Also though Zhang's straight left was very well thrown from a nice compact stance, with the shoulder behind it, so probably carried a lot of weight behind it too.

One thing I did notice yesterday, was that Joyce seemed to throw a lot of arm punches, there wasn't much rotation on any of the shots, so he wasn't getting a lot of force behind them.

Maybe he had an off night, maybe he's done, he won't get many chances to prove or disprove those statements at his age. I hope he doesn't fight on too long, with his style he's likely to end up a total cabbage.

Agree it stood out by a mile that JJ had nothing in a lot of them punches , especiely to the body it was all arm no weight behind the punches , think in hindsight , his lack of correct delivery with a lot of his punches his inability and no idea what to do against a southpaw , , i fail to see how this has not been picked up in the gym and fixed , , taking nothing away from Zang , but JJ needs another trainer

I think in the past, he has gotten away with it, because of his seemingly rock solid chin, and his workrate, even without having much on the individual shots, the number of them ground people down, but this was the first time he was getting hit hard and regularly, whilst also being unable to land the jab, and not getting his own work through.

I'd say that Joyce's jab is by far the best weapon in his arsenal, partly because it's the only tool in his arsenal he delivers correctly.

It's astonishing he's gotten as far as he did as an amateur and pro without solid fundamentals that enable him to leverage his weight into his shots fully.

I mean he could still employ a similar style, and mix up quick but lighter shots, with slower and heavier ones, that's what the likes of Lomachecnko do, lots and lots of seemingly insignificant shots, keeping the opponent off balance, interspersed with heavier shots. Not that I am suggesting that Joyce would be able to perform like Lomachenko of course!

Ricky wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 15:03 Zhang needs to be in the world title mix.

I watched him box to a draw vs Forrest a few years back and thought he sucked. But his performance against Hrgovic was very good, and he looked great last night too. Quick accurate hands, long lefts that find the target, some nice combos. Great chin, well schooled.

He's not going to be an easy night for anyone.

Zhang took those hard fights and learned how to pace himself now to go the 12 round distance.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Apr 2023, 06:46

coneye wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 20:43

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:57 It would hardly be surprising at his age.

Punch resistance seeminly evaporates overnight with some fighter, he seemed to walk through big shots before, but then those shots probably all had their effect on him neurologically, and maybe that's why he seemed to get hurt pretty quickly.

Also though Zhang's straight left was very well thrown from a nice compact stance, with the shoulder behind it, so probably carried a lot of weight behind it too.

One thing I did notice yesterday, was that Joyce seemed to throw a lot of arm punches, there wasn't much rotation on any of the shots, so he wasn't getting a lot of force behind them.

Maybe he had an off night, maybe he's done, he won't get many chances to prove or disprove those statements at his age. I hope he doesn't fight on too long, with his style he's likely to end up a total cabbage.

Agree it stood out by a mile that JJ had nothing in a lot of them punches , especiely to the body it was all arm no weight behind the punches , think in hindsight , his lack of correct delivery with a lot of his punches his inability and no idea what to do against a southpaw , , i fail to see how this has not been picked up in the gym and fixed , , taking nothing away from Zang , but JJ needs another trainer

I think in the past, he has gotten away with it, because of his seemingly rock solid chin, and his workrate, even without having much on the individual shots, the number of them ground people down, but this was the first time he was getting hit hard and regularly, whilst also being unable to land the jab, and not getting his own work through.

I'd say that Joyce's jab is by far the best weapon in his arsenal, partly because it's the only tool in his arsenal he delivers correctly.

It's astonishing he's gotten as far as he did as an amateur and pro without solid fundamentals that enable him to leverage his weight into his shots fully.

I mean he could still employ a similar style, and mix up quick but lighter shots, with slower and heavier ones, that's what the likes of Lomachecnko do, lots and lots of seemingly insignificant shots, keeping the opponent off balance, interspersed with heavier shots. Not that I am suggesting that Joyce would be able to perform like Lomachenko of course!

Joyce has always been an arm puncher.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑18 Apr 2023, 02:15

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Apr 2023, 06:46

coneye wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 20:43

Agree it stood out by a mile that JJ had nothing in a lot of them punches , especiely to the body it was all arm no weight behind the punches , think in hindsight , his lack of correct delivery with a lot of his punches his inability and no idea what to do against a southpaw , , i fail to see how this has not been picked up in the gym and fixed , , taking nothing away from Zang , but JJ needs another trainer

I think in the past, he has gotten away with it, because of his seemingly rock solid chin, and his workrate, even without having much on the individual shots, the number of them ground people down, but this was the first time he was getting hit hard and regularly, whilst also being unable to land the jab, and not getting his own work through.

I'd say that Joyce's jab is by far the best weapon in his arsenal, partly because it's the only tool in his arsenal he delivers correctly.

It's astonishing he's gotten as far as he did as an amateur and pro without solid fundamentals that enable him to leverage his weight into his shots fully.

I mean he could still employ a similar style, and mix up quick but lighter shots, with slower and heavier ones, that's what the likes of Lomachecnko do, lots and lots of seemingly insignificant shots, keeping the opponent off balance, interspersed with heavier shots. Not that I am suggesting that Joyce would be able to perform like Lomachenko of course!

Joyce has always been an arm puncher.

Yes he's never got full rotation in his shots, but he seemed to get even less than usual to me this fight, maybe it's my imagination.

He did I'm sure swing from the hips when he threw those hooks before.

Joyce does seem to get the job done eventually.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 04:04 biggest pet peeve of the night - ring announcer saying 'zhang' in a way that didnt make it rhyme with bang

if his name really is pronounced like 'zhong' , then his nickname should be 'big dong' instead of 'big bang'

Lol I noticed that and it peed me off too…. There was a 7ft Chinese heavy called Dong, Taishan Dong but he’s retired https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/691769

Well funny enough went to the gym tonight ,not my gym i'm not the trainer , i just pop in and they ask me to help with the lads and girls , so i do it when i feel like it , anyway another club came in for sparring they bring with them a southpaw , non of these kids have the luxury of a southpaw in the gym , so one of them sparring this southpaw for the first time , he does two rnds and can't land a punch his feet are getting mangled up trying to chase and cut the lefty off , every time he threw a punch he got countered and clobbered ,

End of 2nd rnd we give him a break the lefty was after 6 rnds straight off he was more experienced , anyway this kid comes to me he says , what do i do , i can't hit him , everytime i throiw a punch he belts me , i looked at him and said , don't throw a punch , don't chase him . what do i do he said ,, simple go take the centre of the ring , hands up walk on him slow , and let him lead of then counter him ,, 3rd and 4th rnd different spar kid done really well , lefty got out , now in this gym theres an excuse its a new gym the 2 trainers are not really very experienced , but there willing to learn , non of there kids are fight ready and non have sparred a southpaw they just did'nt have a clue .

But the differtence is ,, THERE ALL AMETEURS , AND NOVICE AMETEURS AT THAT ,,, if i was Joyce i'd be asking them trainers for my money back