BoxRec

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 02:57 I thought he beat hrgovic fairly clearly.

Usyk probably beats him but l wouldn't pick anyone else. Wilder has one punch whereas ZZ has an entire arsenal. Wilder obviously only has a punchers chance. Fury had a hard time avoiding wilder and is heavily overrated. I'd take ZZ, the only issue is stamina. AJ would get clobbered.

I can agree with most of that

Risky fight early for Usyk .. Zhang would be focussing heavily on Usyk downstairs - which if Usyk can avoid, may benefit him as fight progresses if Zhang really has got the stamina issues he appeared to show previously (not so evident against Hrgovic).

Wilder gets beat up worse than Fury did him; possibly same scenario against this version of Fury too.

AJs new style may actually enable him to beat Zhang on points more convincingly than Hrgovic did.

Uysk would be tough due to his speed, skill, intelligence and experience.

Wilder is just s***, probably one of the worst HW Champs in recent times (though not quite Charles Martin level).

Fury is a big lump but can get dropped (and gets up). He could out maul and pepper Zhiang. A tricky one.

AJ can try to box but he isn't natural and would get hit often. Depends on whether he could take it (not sure about that). Zhiang is crafty and more natural, as a fighter (instincts).

Zhiang is getting older, however, so that is a real factor.

zhang is an offensive juggernaut for 4-5 rounds, but usyk and fury if he's still half serious would get him past that and then play with him. and already being 40 when you've broken out isnt great either.......

Usyk > Fury > AJ > Zhang > Wilder

In any other previous era being 40 yrs old may have been a significant problem - but in this era of better PEDs and heavyweights so thin on talent and ambition its barely a concern. Foreman won the title at 45 in a tougher era ... Zhang has years left by comparison.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 04:14 Usyk > Fury > AJ > Zhang > Wilder

Uysk, AJ, Zhang, Wilder

Fury is no longer part of that list. He has stopped taking on boxers, and has moved to crossover events instead, and said he wants Jon Jones to be his next fight.

Zhang the danger man would destroy Joshua, 50-50 with Wilder, I think Fury and Usyk would beat him on points though.

IRONFIST wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 05:03 Zhang the danger man would destroy Joshua, 50-50 with Wilder, I think Fury and Usyk would beat him on points though.

I think we can discount Fury as it doesn’t want to compete. I agree Usyk might navigate the minefield but Wilder is pretty unskilled, so if he didn’t catch Zhang cold he might start to suffer quite quickly. I wouldn’t bet much money on Joshua’s durability holding up and isn’t Hearn already in full swerve mode?

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 04:14 In any other previous era being 40 yrs old may have been a significant problem - but in this era of better PEDs and heavyweights so thin on talent and ambition its barely a concern. Foreman won the title at 45 in a tougher era ... Zhang has years left by comparison.

This is what I'm thinking also. His stamina didn't look bad vs Hrgovic. He had some kidney issues vs Forrest. One good thing about that fight is that he showed a legit warrior heart right out of the Han Dynasty

I assume all fighters are on PEDs so on that basis he could keep going and have 4-5 decent years left. This is a guy with solid fundamentals. He is not relying on reflexes or speed, it is all based on great balance and taking advantage of his southpaw stance. Fantastic use of angles, really good fight IQ and I think he is bringing some intimidation factor into fights now because he is hurting people early in all his fights. Joyce was petrified in there and didn't want any action for the first half of the fight. So, he is backed up by solid fundamentals. Even defensively you can see him catching and parrying shots and covering up nicely. Fine countering with the straight left and the hook. I really liked the finish vs Joyce. Throws the left with no intention of landing and it generates the leverage for the power hook that flattens Joyce.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 06:13

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 04:14 In any other previous era being 40 yrs old may have been a significant problem - but in this era of better PEDs and heavyweights so thin on talent and ambition its barely a concern. Foreman won the title at 45 in a tougher era ... Zhang has years left by comparison.

This is what I'm thinking also. His stamina didn't look bad vs Hrgovic. He had some kidney issues vs Forrest. One good thing about that fight is that he showed a legit warrior heart right out of the Han Dynasty

I assume all fighters are on PEDs so on that basis he could keep going and have 4-5 decent years left. This is a guy with solid fundamentals. He is not relying on reflexes or speed, it is all based on great balance and taking advantage of his southpaw stance. Fantastic use of angles, really good fight IQ and I think he is bringing some intimidation factor into fights now because he is hurting people early in all his fights. Joyce was petrified in there and didn't want any action for the first half of the fight. So, he is backed up by solid fundamentals. Even defensively you can see him catching and parrying shots and covering up nicely. Fine countering with the straight left and the hook. I really liked the finish vs Joyce. Throws the left with no intention of landing and it generates the leverage for the power hook that flattens Joyce.

How many of us were frequently replicating that move on the heavy bag / in sparring on the Sunday morning? I know I was

polecateddy wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 06:04

IRONFIST wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 05:03 Zhang the danger man would destroy Joshua, 50-50 with Wilder, I think Fury and Usyk would beat him on points though.

I think we can discount Fury as it doesn’t want to compete. I agree Usyk might navigate the minefield but Wilder is pretty unskilled, so if he didn’t catch Zhang cold he might start to suffer quite quickly. I wouldn’t bet much money on Joshua’s durability holding up and isn’t Hearn already in full swerve mode?

Fast Eddie previously said Zhang was a C-level opponent, Zhang would make Joshua seem like an F-Level opponent.

Zhang was also robbed against Hrgovic. So really he's unbeaten and needs a title shot next or a fight with Wilder, Joshua and Hearn are too busy hiding in the corner from this "C-level" opponent.

Zhang would absolutely batter Wilder.

Can hold his own in a punch out and skilled for a big man.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 07:47 Zhang would absolutely batter Wilder.

Can hold his own in a punch out and skilled for a big man.

He would rag dog him like Fury did in the 2and fight

zangh isnt the new best thing since sliced bread - he just beat a slow guy who was underprepared for a southpaw in the 1st fight who then couldnt adjust in the rematch and now most pundits are calling for JJ to retire ...

He probably did enough to deserve the result vs Hergovic but it wasnt convincing with lots of rests mid round .

The top 4 all beat him soundly - but in different ways .

His cardio cant last anywhere near 12 rounds at any pace which is why he rests so much even in the early rounds .

stevec@france wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 10:44 zangh isnt the new best thing since sliced bread - he just beat a slow guy who was underprepared for a southpaw in the 1st fight who then couldnt adjust in the rematch and now most pundits are calling for JJ to retire ...

He probably did enough to deserve the result vs Hergovic but it wasnt convincing with lots of rests mid round .

The top 4 all beat him soundly - but in different ways .

His cardio cant last anywhere near 12 rounds at any pace which is why he rests so much even in the early rounds .

Oh come on - let us have some fun. It’s good to get carried away now and then.

Particularly with the heavyweight division how it is!

Frostieballs wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 11:18

stevec@france wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 10:44 zangh isnt the new best thing since sliced bread - he just beat a slow guy who was underprepared for a southpaw in the 1st fight who then couldnt adjust in the rematch and now most pundits are calling for JJ to retire ...

He probably did enough to deserve the result vs Hergovic but it wasnt convincing with lots of rests mid round .

The top 4 all beat him soundly - but in different ways .

His cardio cant last anywhere near 12 rounds at any pace which is why he rests so much even in the early rounds .

Oh come on - let us have some fun. It’s good to get carried away now and then.

Particularly with the heavyweight division how it is!

NO !
This is serious .

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 06:24

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 06:13

tonyevs wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 04:14 In any other previous era being 40 yrs old may have been a significant problem - but in this era of better PEDs and heavyweights so thin on talent and ambition its barely a concern. Foreman won the title at 45 in a tougher era ... Zhang has years left by comparison.

This is what I'm thinking also. His stamina didn't look bad vs Hrgovic. He had some kidney issues vs Forrest. One good thing about that fight is that he showed a legit warrior heart right out of the Han Dynasty

I assume all fighters are on PEDs so on that basis he could keep going and have 4-5 decent years left. This is a guy with solid fundamentals. He is not relying on reflexes or speed, it is all based on great balance and taking advantage of his southpaw stance. Fantastic use of angles, really good fight IQ and I think he is bringing some intimidation factor into fights now because he is hurting people early in all his fights. Joyce was petrified in there and didn't want any action for the first half of the fight. So, he is backed up by solid fundamentals. Even defensively you can see him catching and parrying shots and covering up nicely. Fine countering with the straight left and the hook. I really liked the finish vs Joyce. Throws the left with no intention of landing and it generates the leverage for the power hook that flattens Joyce.

How many of us were frequently replicating that move on the heavy bag / in sparring on the Sunday morning? I know I was

The timing of the shot was sweet as a nut - an absolute pearler - poor old Joyce had no idea what hit him.

Totally agree about balance, he has correct footwork, he doesn't reach or overextend his shots, and they are all short shots, either short straight lefts, or very tight arc hooks and crosses. No big looping punches. The power is because of that the shots are perfectly executed.

he bangs everything

fury at his best would've beaten him. however i think that day has passed.

Think Leprachaun , hit the nail on the head in another topic , he mentioned counter punching , it really does seem to be an art that is not being used , and Zang does it very well , now southpaws do tend to be counter punchers by nature , so what did Joe do , stuck his left hand out and waived it about like a European ameteur , Joe had not practiced the art of countering a southpaw ,drawing him in making him throw first and doing to him what he does to you , point being OTHERS WILL not all but Fury would he is smart , Usyk definetly would because he's smarter , AJ will not ,

Its an art being lost because in my opinion , boxers who can afford them , are allowing S & C coaches and diatiscens to take over there training , coaches used to be teachers who taught the fine art , now there trainers , who quite often are not even old enough to be top students never mind teachers .

personaly i've liked ZANG AND HIS STYLE for a while now , BUT i'm not convinced he's going to beat the top dogs , but lucky for him theres not to many top dogs around so he should have a decent future .

When he finally gets his man strenght , and when /if he fights again ,, him and Hugh Fury could be interesting , styles make fights

The saying you're only as good as your fight has never been so apt. People on here are colossally overrating Zhang. He literally couldn't miss against Joyce in either fight. None of the top four would be that generous. Yes, Zhang is good, but come on.

jwfg wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 16:25 The saying you're only as good as your fight has never been so apt. People on here are colossally overrating Zhang. He literally couldn't miss against Joyce in either fight. None of the top four would be that generous. Yes, Zhang is good, but come on.

Who do you regard as the top 4?

Usyk - dangerous first few rounds against Zhang due to Zhang's size.

Fury - who has Fury fought recently to prepare him for such a live opponent? Wilder was gash .. Zhang is levels above Wilder in technique and likely level on punch power.

Wilder - Wilder couldn't deal with Fury's size and strength. I doubt Zhang would fight Wilder so recklessly as Fury and would break Wilder down easy enough

Joshua - I actually think Joshua has the easiest night of the others in beating Zhang. Especially this cautious version of Joshua.

jwfg wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 16:25 The saying you're only as good as your fight has never been so apt. People on here are colossally overrating Zhang. He literally couldn't miss against Joyce in either fight. None of the top four would be that generous. Yes, Zhang is good, but come on.

Welcome to the boxrec forums

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 03:01

jwfg wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 16:25 The saying you're only as good as your fight has never been so apt. People on here are colossally overrating Zhang. He literally couldn't miss against Joyce in either fight. None of the top four would be that generous. Yes, Zhang is good, but come on.

Welcome to the boxrec forums

It’s only about 9 months ago that we had all the “Joyce is the man to beat” threads

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 03:54

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023, 03:01

jwfg wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 16:25 The saying you're only as good as your fight has never been so apt. People on here are colossally overrating Zhang. He literally couldn't miss against Joyce in either fight. None of the top four would be that generous. Yes, Zhang is good, but come on.

Welcome to the boxrec forums

It’s only about 9 months ago that we had all the “Joyce is the man to beat” threads

Well, he has now been beaten, twice, and the guy who did it is now p4p#1