BoxRec Forum HW Top 15 ranking - Otto Wallin & Frank Sanchez

[Ruthless-RKO]

The vote is over.

• Otto Wallin enters at #9

• Frank Sanchez stays at #10

• Deontay Wilder exits the rankings due to inactivity

Current ranking:
Oleksandr Usyk - 21(14) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

2. Tyson Fury - 33(24) 0 1 - next fight: 28.10.2023 vs. Francis Ngannou - 17(12) 3 0* - (Unranked, Inactive)

3. Anthony Joshua - 26(23) 3(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

4. Zhilei Zhang - 24(21) 1(0) 1 - next fight: TBA

5. Joseph Parker - 32(22) 3(1) 0 - next fight: 28.10.2023 vs. Simon Kean - 23(22) 1(1) 0 - (BoxRec's #33)

6. Filip Hrgovic - 16(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

7. Martin Bakole - 19(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

8. Joe Joyce - 15(14) 2(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Otto Wallin - 26(14) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Frank Sanchez - 23(16) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Jared Anderson - 16(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

12. Arslanbek Makhmudov - 17(16) 0 0 - next fight: 30.09.2023 vs. Agron Smakici - 20(18) 2(2) 0 - (BoxRec's #73)

13. Efe Ajagba - 18(13) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

14. VACANT

15. VACANT

* MMA record
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[SportsRatings]

Is the Fury-Ngannou card going to count for the Boxrec forum rankings?

Even if ppl here don't think the main fight is "real" or no chance of upset anyway, there are a lot of undercard fights that could affect things. Parker fights Kean, and Mak fights Smakici, and Wardley fights too and could be a potential #14-15.

It looks like none of these are going to be listed in Boxrec.

[gregregegg]

Is the Fury-Ngannou card going to count for the Boxrec forum rankings?

Even if ppl here don't think the main fight is "real" or no chance of upset anyway, there are a lot of undercard fights that could affect things. Parker fights Kean, and Mak fights Smakici, and Wardley fights too and could be a potential #14-15.

It looks like none of these are going to be listed in Boxrec.

If boxrec count it as a pro bout I’ll count it if they don’t I won’t. (Because that’s what we have been doing)

My preference would be to not count fights outside the top 100 for activity… which means it wouldn’t. But that would affect lots of people.

[joshj909]

Is the Fury-Ngannou card going to count for the Boxrec forum rankings?

Even if ppl here don't think the main fight is "real" or no chance of upset anyway, there are a lot of undercard fights that could affect things. Parker fights Kean, and Mak fights Smakici, and Wardley fights too and could be a potential #14-15.

It looks like none of these are going to be listed in Boxrec.

If boxrec count it as a pro bout I’ll count it if they don’t I won’t. (Because that’s what we have been doing)

My preference would be to not count fights outside the top 100 for activity… which means it wouldn’t. But that would affect lots of people.

If Boxrec doesn't count it as a pro fight and Fury doesn't have a date for the Usyk fight by 3rd of December then he's out of these rankings and we'll need to find another 3 guys to fill the gaps left. It's not going to look pretty.

[joshj909]

Ngannou to 4 and Fury out

[gregregegg]

Next one of these will be horrifically complicated…

Fury gets a bad result, nganu a good result, Parker a result, mak a result, bakolee a result, huni a result.

Chaney vs Trev probably won’t effect it next week, but efe vs Goodall will.

[margaret thatcher]

huni not in the top 15 picture yet for me. wardley is creeping closer though.

parker already too high at #5 and he shouldnt go up even higher. bakole could feasibly move up a bit. mak i wouldnt boost for another can crush. fury back in , but his argument for being #1 is shakier . ngganou is a funny one ,arguably beats the guy many people have at #1, but officially the loser and has no wins in pro boxing. i could see guys way outside this list beating him. wouldnt rank him top 15 yet but there is logic to put him in

[KiwiRider]

Ngannou to 4 and Fury out

Maybe #3 for Fury eh?

[gregregegg]

Fury comes back on activity, but you can place him anywhere from 1-7 after that shit show…. (1 is an absolute stretch and I borderline refuse to accept that, but considering many had him 1 and he didn’t loose I guess it’s justtt justifiable)

think huni, wardly, and nganu all have very decent arguments to be top 15 (especially considering they are vacant spots).

Parker, mak and bakolie consolidate really. Not much in it and possibly all slightly over ranked at least they had too 100 wins…

[margaret thatcher]

huni's record is good for 8-0 but not top 15 yet, resume wise he's more like a prospect who with a good win added or a couple solid ones could be in the mix. not much separates his resume from say lenier pero.

there arent many good options for the last few spots, and with fury reentering one spot will already be filled. especially with all the guys ineligible due to inactivity or peds (ruiz, ortiz, wilder, whyte etc) there's slim pickings. but even then ii'd bring chisora back before voting in huni right now, would have guys like dubois and wardley ahead too.

ngganou, though i wouldnt put him in, has an argument that he shouldve beaten fury, which is pretty big when top 15 is this weak

[Finkel]

Next one of these will be horrifically complicated…

Fury gets a bad result, nganu a good result, Parker a result, mak a result, bakolee a result, huni a result.

Chaney vs Trev probably won’t effect it next week, but efe vs Goodall will.

I don't think we should bother voting on Parker, Mak, or Bakolee. They were all such one sided match-ups with predictable outcomes that only losing such fights should affect their rankings.

Which brings me to Fury. I think he just proved what some of us have argued for many years. There were two circuits in the Heavyweight Division. The WBC circus, and the WBA/IBF/WBO circuit. It is very rare for fighters from either to cross paths. Fury being the top dog of the WBC circuit undermines everyone that took that route. This Ngannou fight damages Fury's reputation, but also Wilder, Ortiz, etc.

Fury is a spent force, and he should probably be down at around 4 or 5.
The guy somehow managed to lose to a 37-year-old boxing debutant who was 2-years inactive and coming off knee surgery. If this is what remains of Tyson Fury, then he is done. Cooked. He should probably drop out of the top 10 all together.

[joshj909]

Next one of these will be horrifically complicated…

Fury gets a bad result, nganu a good result, Parker a result, mak a result, bakolee a result, huni a result.

Chaney vs Trev probably won’t effect it next week, but efe vs Goodall will.

I don't think we should bother voting on Parker, Mak, or Bakolee. They were all such one sided match-ups with predictable outcomes that only losing such fights should affect their rankings.

Which brings me to Fury. I think he just proved what some of us have argued for many years. There were two circuits in the Heavyweight Division. The WBC circus, and the WBA/IBF/WBO circuit. It is very rare for fighters from either to cross paths. Fury being the top dog of the WBC circuit undermines everyone that took that route. This Ngannou fight damages Fury's reputation, but also Wilder, Ortiz, etc.

Fury is a spent force, and he should probably be down at around 4 or 5.
The guy somehow managed to lose to a 37-year-old boxing debutant who was 2-years inactive and coming off knee surgery. If this is what remains of Tyson Fury, then he is done. Cooked. He should probably drop out of the top 10 all together.

I disagree. Voting on them allows us to rectify previous mistakes or having time to reflect on results with hindsight. I'd personally move all three.

[Finkel]

Next one of these will be horrifically complicated…

Fury gets a bad result, nganu a good result, Parker a result, mak a result, bakolee a result, huni a result.

Chaney vs Trev probably won’t effect it next week, but efe vs Goodall will.

I don't think we should bother voting on Parker, Mak, or Bakolee. They were all such one sided match-ups with predictable outcomes that only losing such fights should affect their rankings.

Which brings me to Fury. I think he just proved what some of us have argued for many years. There were two circuits in the Heavyweight Division. The WBC circus, and the WBA/IBF/WBO circuit. It is very rare for fighters from either to cross paths. Fury being the top dog of the WBC circuit undermines everyone that took that route. This Ngannou fight damages Fury's reputation, but also Wilder, Ortiz, etc.

Fury is a spent force, and he should probably be down at around 4 or 5.
The guy somehow managed to lose to a 37-year-old boxing debutant who was 2-years inactive and coming off knee surgery. If this is what remains of Tyson Fury, then he is done. Cooked. He should probably drop out of the top 10 all together.

I disagree. Voting on them allows us to rectify previous mistakes or having time to reflect on results with hindsight. I'd personally move all three.

Hmm I'm not sure how productive it is to either punish or promote fighters for winning tune ups. If we drop them, all that does is elevate people below them who likely don't deserve such a high spot, and we have are left with a new problem.
Of course, if they look terrible in a tune-up, then that is a bit different. But if they did what was expected of them...there is no need to move them.

But sure, I've no problem voting on them if people really want to. I can vote no change, and if the majority want to move them up or down. So be it.

[CMCanavessi]

What's up with Huni's fight? It completely disappeared from boxrec: https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/863084

[margaret thatcher]

that card is glitching up, the results were appearing on the front page, but then when you go to each fighter's record the fight isnt there

[margaret thatcher]

dudes are already inactive enough as is. we should have the chance to vote on someone every time they fight. if someone doesnt think their fight is relevant, they can just not move them, which is essentially the same as not voting

[gregregegg]

I do think poll voting will get horrible for this… because every poll affects every other poll and there a lot of potential overlap.

Almost feel like we should vote on everything , but in comment form (just for weeks this complicated) . Then have ruthy just read em all and change the rankings on a vibe…

I understand a vibe isn’t the most scientific method, but shit beats trying to run 6 polls, where each polls result effects the other polls…

[stpeach]

We could rank all 4 fights (I would include Wardley, especially seeing we have 2 vacant spots) at once and pick the most popular result for each fighter

[Finkel]

I do think poll voting will get horrible for this… because every poll affects every other poll and there a lot of potential overlap.

Almost feel like we should vote on everything , but in comment form (just for weeks this complicated) . Then have ruthy just read em all and change the rankings on a vibe…

I understand a vibe isn’t the most scientific method, but shit beats trying to run 6 polls, where each polls result effects the other polls…

I always prefer comment form. People have to put their name to their opinion. They don't have to necessarily defend their opinion, but I think anonymous voting opens us up to spammers. The other problem with using a vote at the top of the page, is one person is setting the parameters, which introduces unavoidable bias. It is well known that a problem with Likert scales is people move toward whatever the middle value is. So if I say set up a poll saying where do you rank Fury: 1, 2, 3, 4, or ,5. It is going to have a chilling effect on people wanting to vote outside of that, and people who don't really have an opinion but just want to vote are liable to pick 3.

Plus, reading the healthy debate following each match-up was always a lot of fun.

Having said all that, it can be a lot of work for Ruthless-RKO. It isn't me having to collate the results in my free time, so I completely understand why a poll might be the preferred option.

[tiny_acres]

With so many vacancies and so much inactivity.
I think it is time for a fresh start.
Start this over

[Ruthless-RKO]

I’m back from my holidays.. give me a week or so..

Will do a complete do over.

Everyone get your top 15 ready.

Gonna collate all the rankings together using a points system, like Dag once did. Then we’ll have a new list.

Won’t be including Ruiz, Ortiz, Wilder and anyone who hasn’t fought in 12 months, so don’t vote them in.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I do think poll voting will get horrible for this… because every poll affects every other poll and there a lot of potential overlap.

Almost feel like we should vote on everything , but in comment form (just for weeks this complicated) . Then have ruthy just read em all and change the rankings on a vibe…

I understand a vibe isn’t the most scientific method, but shit beats trying to run 6 polls, where each polls result effects the other polls…

I always prefer comment form. People have to put their name to their opinion. They don't have to necessarily defend their opinion, but I think anonymous voting opens us up to spammers. The other problem with using a vote at the top of the page, is one person is setting the parameters, which introduces unavoidable bias. It is well known that a problem with Likert scales is people move toward whatever the middle value is. So if I say set up a poll saying where do you rank Fury: 1, 2, 3, 4, or ,5. It is going to have a chilling effect on people wanting to vote outside of that, and people who don't really have an opinion but just want to vote are liable to pick 3.

Plus, reading the healthy debate following each match-up was always a lot of fun.

Having said all that, it can be a lot of work for Ruthless-RKO. It isn't me having to collate the results in my free time, so I completely understand why a poll might be the preferred option.

I understand. A poll is okay when it’s one or 2 fights on the weekend.

I remember exactly how dag re-did his rankings, when he was off a few months.

It will be comments/post based. Will leave it open 10 days or so.. take my time, run through comments, place them all in a table and sort through.

I’ll get it done.

[gregregegg]

I’m back from my holidays.. give me a week or so..

Will do a complete do over.

Everyone get your top 15 ready.

Gonna collate all the rankings together using a points system, like Dag once did. Then we’ll have a new list.

Won’t be including Ruiz, Ortiz, Wilder and anyone who hasn’t fought in 12 months, so don’t vote them in.

Sounds good. I think we are due for a redo.

Be good if you note who is 16, 17, 18… even if you don’t tell anyone. Just so for those first couple months or so if someone goes “vacant” you can just slot in the next person without a vote.

[joshj909]

I’m back from my holidays.. give me a week or so..

Will do a complete do over.

Everyone get your top 15 ready.

Gonna collate all the rankings together using a points system, like Dag once did. Then we’ll have a new list.

Won’t be including Ruiz, Ortiz, Wilder and anyone who hasn’t fought in 12 months, so don’t vote them in.

Might be worth waiting until after the Efe/Goodall fight this weekend. No big heavyweight fights planned for a while after that so should give you plenty of time.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I’m back from my holidays.. give me a week or so..

Will do a complete do over.

Everyone get your top 15 ready.

Gonna collate all the rankings together using a points system, like Dag once did. Then we’ll have a new list.

Won’t be including Ruiz, Ortiz, Wilder and anyone who hasn’t fought in 12 months, so don’t vote them in.

Sounds good. I think we are due for a redo.

Be good if you note who is 16, 17, 18… even if you don’t tell anyone. Just so for those first couple months or so if someone goes “vacant” you can just slot in the next person without a vote.

Everyone’s top 15 will be different regardless. So there will be some spillage for 16, 17, 18 and onwards. Will kee note of these.