BoxRec

Tyson Fury won against an even more than usual cautious and anxious Klitschko in 2015

The titles are vacated because of his cocaine usage

Tyson Fury promotes fights against literal trash cans as Lineal Heavyweight championships.

He drew against Wilder because of Ko'ds purely due to useless showboating.

He promotes fights against trashcans as lineal championships AGAIN.

He wins against Wilder in spectacular fashion twice.

He defends the titles against an old guy looking for a payday but does score a spectacular knock out on him.

He fakes retirement to promote future fights

He then robs a man making his pro debut in a non-title almost exhibition-like bout.

Usyk win the title from a traumatized aging champion that got lost in a chess match he had no reason to get into TWICE.

He then robs a very capable challenger by putting his best acting skills to the mix (and also a very favorable political context.)

Both lacks credibilities as champions but I'll have to go with Usyk. At least he didn't promotes useless snoozefest as legitimate championships for things he did years prior.

Tyson Fury has hijacked the lineal title and will keep it in perpetuity.

joshj909 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2023, 19:45 Francis Ngannou

Ha, could very easily have been!

Lennox was once undisputed, lineal champ.

In the Klitschko era the belts were split for a long time. Wlad kept beating the next best boxer. Vitali eventually retired, Wlad had 3/4 belts, again beat the next best boxer in Povetkin. Had already beaten Byrd, Ibragimov, and Haye for 3 belts.
Wlad was certainly the Man.

Tyson beat Wlad, so he was the Man.

Tyson retires under suspension for 2 years.
Joshua attains his 3 belts. Wilder keeps his WBC.

Eventually Usyk attains 3 belts, Fury wins the WBC.

Arguably Fury is still lineal champ. Usyk was awarded the Ring belt, due to Fury's constant "retirements".

Fury v Usyk will settle who is Undisputed Champion of the current era.

(Fury has just been manhandled and scraped by the debutant former UFC champ)
Kind of takes some sheen off the undisputed match, but it might as well go ahead anyway.

fanman wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 06:29

joshj909 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2023, 19:45 Francis Ngannou

Ha, could very easily have been!

Lennox was once undisputed, lineal champ.

In the Klitschko era the belts were split for a long time. Wlad kept beating the next best boxer. Vitali eventually retired, Wlad had 3/4 belts, again beat the next best boxer in Povetkin. Had already beaten Byrd, Ibragimov, and Haye for 3 belts.
Wlad was certainly the Man.

Tyson beat Wlad, so he was the Man.

Tyson retires under suspension for 2 years.
Joshua attains his 3 belts. Wilder keeps his WBC.

Eventually Usyk attains 3 belts, Fury wins the WBC.

Arguably Fury is still lineal champ. Usyk was awarded the Ring belt, due to Fury's constant "retirements".

Fury v Usyk will settle who is Undisputed Champion of the current era.

(Fury has just been manhandled and scraped by the debutant former UFC champ)
Kind of takes some sheen off the undisputed match, but it might as well go ahead anyway.

Personally, I don't like this idea of 1 v 2. It is very subjective. It should take undisputed to create a new lineage. For example, when Fury retired after beating Wlad. Wlad v Joshua was effectively 1 v 2. So that should create another new lineage with Joshua. Usyk v Joshua (Fury retired again). That is another 1 v2, and another new lineage.

There was nothing really stopping Wlad from collecting the 4th belt to become undisputed. So I don't see why we should make believe that he created a new lineage, but Joshua and Usyk didn't.

We can say with certainty that a line ended with Lennox Lewis' retirement. But that is about the only thing we can say with certainty.

Ive already made my decision on this

Wlad Klitschko was the lineal champion, Fury beat him and has not lost a fight since wining it. He must be the lineal champion.

Brute wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 07:23 Wlad Klitschko was the lineal champion, Fury beat him and has not lost a fight since wining it. He must be the lineal champion.

Wlad never beat the previous lineal champ.

I think it's fine for there to not be a lineal champ. It seems to have been mixed up with "man who beat the man". Fury beat the last "man" in Wlad but Wlad didn't beat the last "man" before him.

Tyson Fury is still the lineal heavyweight champion (a near disaster averted).
Oleksandr Usyk is now the favorite of Fury vs Usyk.
And Francis Ngannou is the baddest man on the planet.

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 08:24 Tyson Fury is still the lineal heavyweight champion

When did he beat Lennox Lewis?

Usyk is a fighting champion. Fury is a joke.

jwfg wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 09:18

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 08:24 Tyson Fury is still the lineal heavyweight champion

When did he beat Lennox Lewis?

There was a break in the lineage when Lennox retired rather than rematch Vitali. Wooohoo everybody knows that.

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 10:29

jwfg wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 09:18

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 08:24 Tyson Fury is still the lineal heavyweight champion

When did he beat Lennox Lewis?

There was a break in the lineage when Lennox retired rather than rematch Vitali. Wooohoo everybody knows that.

But Fury retired. Are you saying because he came back, he is the lineal champion?

fury still being lineal from wlad doesnt work . he announced his retirement, gave up his belts, and didnt fight for close to 3 years. that's a retirement even if he became active later

by that measure, if lennox lewis boxed a total scrub next year and won, he'd count as lineal because he came out of retirement and never lost his status in the ring. then if there were other lineal champs who didnt lose their status in the ring, they could leap over lennox if they did the same lol. it's a ridiculous scenario but that's applying the fury -wlad logic

furys argument now would come from the wilder fights, and whether someone thinks those make him lineal

lineal is so overrated anyway - it's a concept that allows someone to fight utter trash endlessly, without any standards for keeping the belt related to level of opponent., for some reason it gets made a way bigger deal with fury than anyone else. some people lose sight of more important metrics

Well then Fury was the last lineal champion and an active titleholder because Joshua was busy pretending that Wilder didn't exist while Fury was away. Then Fury came back and beat Wilder.

Ngannou

Fury. His HW resume is still more profound.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 10:39 fury still being lineal from wlad doesnt work . he announced his retirement, gave up his belts, and didnt fight for close to 3 years. that's a retirement even if he became active later

by that measure, if lennox lewis boxed a total scrub next year and won, he'd count as lineal because he came out of retirement and never lost his status in the ring. then if there were other lineal champs who didnt lose their status in the ring, they could leap over lennox if they did the same lol. it's a ridiculous scenario but that's applying the fury -wlad logic

furys argument now would come from the wilder fights, and whether someone thinks those make him lineal

lineal is so overrated anyway - it's a concept that allows someone to fight utter trash endlessly, without any standards for keeping the belt related to level of opponent., for some reason it gets made a way bigger deal with fury than anyone else. some people lose sight of more important metrics

On the money.

He also 'retired' this year, yet he is still the WBC champion and the so-called linear champion.

The linear champion is largely meaningless now and has been for a while.

The other thing I have noticed is why are people only concerned about who is the linear HW champ?

Does anybody care who is the lineal cruiserweight, or super featherweight, or light heavyweight champion is?

I never ever hear about it for other weights.

Historically, the lineal title is the most important one.
All the others are just belt holders.

the lineal is the only one you can defend endlessly against the worst fighter in the world and still keep

jwfg wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 10:36

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 10:29

jwfg wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 09:18

When did he beat Lennox Lewis?

There was a break in the lineage when Lennox retired rather than rematch Vitali. Wooohoo everybody knows that.

But Fury retired. Are you saying because he came back, he is the lineal champion?

Lennox Lewis is 58 years old. He has not fought since 2003. Can we let him enjoy his retirement?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 Oct 2023, 15:19 the lineal is the only one you can defend endlessly against the worst fighter in the world and still keep

True