BoxRec

Frostieballs wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 05:47 I think Mayweather could have stopped McGregor very early if he wanted. That was a mismatch.

Why? Mayweather doesn't suddenly become a puncher because he's facing a none boxer. McGregor, was bigger, stronger, faster during that time. And Mayweather has glass hands. Mayweather was generally dominant, he just isn't suddenly going to become a concussive puncher.

Now Pacquaio or Alvarez are doing serious damage to McGregor early doors. But Mayweather isn't that type of boxer

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 13:38

Frostieballs wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 05:47 I think Mayweather could have stopped McGregor very early if he wanted. That was a mismatch.

Why? Mayweather doesn't suddenly become a puncher because he's facing a none boxer. McGregor, was bigger, stronger, faster during that time. And Mayweather has glass hands. Mayweather was generally dominant, he just isn't suddenly going to become a concussive puncher.

Now Pacquaio or Alvarez are doing serious damage to McGregor early doors. But Mayweather isn't that type of boxer

You don't have to be a puncher to get stoppages, if Mayweather cuts loose he's accurate enough to force a TKO against McGregor,that version of Floyd just wasn't willing no matter who against


Same with Fury I still maintain if he didn't get dropped and spooked he'd have dismantled Ngannou, well surely

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 11:58

bripez wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 10:54

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:49

Exactly so why aren't getting put to the sword?

Have you ever sparred a raw novice and got caught with daft shots - its because they don't know what they are doing and they throw random shots or weird shots that don't exist or are never trained.

The boxer expects certain behaviour and the novice doesn't know or do what is expected.

Overall the trained boxer will take over, however in the meantime they might get caught with a couple of shots.

Its one thing getting clipped from a shot, even dropped but for a world class fighter failing to get to grips over 10 rounds baffles me

yep, I'm with you on this one - I've seen trained fighters at a way lower level have a few moments of awkwardness with a non-boxer, but it doesn't take them long to recalibrate and just start methodically breaking them down. Footwork and timing should be huge differentiators in this context, as well as the ability to apply smart pressure that means the non-boxer is expending way more energy just to stay in the game.
If you look at how Anderson Siva, one of the most famed strikers in MMA history, struggled in boxing, that's in keeping with our expectations, it's the Fury Ngannou outcome that's shocked the system.
(PS I'd also have expected Tommy Fury to have schooled KSI on his jab alone, but i think that's far more about the fact that if you take away his name and profile, Fury simply isn't a very good boxer)

Deserter wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 16:13

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 11:58

bripez wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 10:54

Have you ever sparred a raw novice and got caught with daft shots - its because they don't know what they are doing and they throw random shots or weird shots that don't exist or are never trained.

The boxer expects certain behaviour and the novice doesn't know or do what is expected.

Overall the trained boxer will take over, however in the meantime they might get caught with a couple of shots.

Its one thing getting clipped from a shot, even dropped but for a world class fighter failing to get to grips over 10 rounds baffles me

yep, I'm with you on this one - I've seen trained fighters at a way lower level have a few moments of awkwardness with a non-boxer, but it doesn't take them long to recalibrate and just start methodically breaking them down. Footwork and timing should be huge differentiators in this context, as well as the ability to apply smart pressure that means the non-boxer is expending way more energy just to stay in the game.
If you look at how Anderson Siva, one of the most famed strikers in MMA history, struggled in boxing, that's in keeping with our expectations, it's the Fury Ngannou outcome that's shocked the system.
(PS I'd also have expected Tommy Fury to have schooled KSI on his jab alone, but i think that's far more about the fact that if you take away his name and profile, Fury simply isn't a very good boxer)

Couldn't agree more, incidentally Silva beat Chavez Jr, another bizarre one, even with Jr being a headcase, just read today funnily enough that Jr got sectioned, he's clearly troubled

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 16:22

Deserter wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 16:13

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 11:58

Its one thing getting clipped from a shot, even dropped but for a world class fighter failing to get to grips over 10 rounds baffles me

yep, I'm with you on this one - I've seen trained fighters at a way lower level have a few moments of awkwardness with a non-boxer, but it doesn't take them long to recalibrate and just start methodically breaking them down. Footwork and timing should be huge differentiators in this context, as well as the ability to apply smart pressure that means the non-boxer is expending way more energy just to stay in the game.
If you look at how Anderson Siva, one of the most famed strikers in MMA history, struggled in boxing, that's in keeping with our expectations, it's the Fury Ngannou outcome that's shocked the system.
(PS I'd also have expected Tommy Fury to have schooled KSI on his jab alone, but i think that's far more about the fact that if you take away his name and profile, Fury simply isn't a very good boxer)

Couldn't agree more, incidentally Silva beat Chavez Jr, another bizarre one, even with Jr being a headcase, just read today funnily enough that Jr got sectioned, he's clearly troubled

I don't think he's troubled per se, more a drug addict. His father had the same. But perhaps that is symptomatic of troubles.

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 16:22

Deserter wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 16:13

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 11:58

Its one thing getting clipped from a shot, even dropped but for a world class fighter failing to get to grips over 10 rounds baffles me

yep, I'm with you on this one - I've seen trained fighters at a way lower level have a few moments of awkwardness with a non-boxer, but it doesn't take them long to recalibrate and just start methodically breaking them down. Footwork and timing should be huge differentiators in this context, as well as the ability to apply smart pressure that means the non-boxer is expending way more energy just to stay in the game.
If you look at how Anderson Siva, one of the most famed strikers in MMA history, struggled in boxing, that's in keeping with our expectations, it's the Fury Ngannou outcome that's shocked the system.
(PS I'd also have expected Tommy Fury to have schooled KSI on his jab alone, but i think that's far more about the fact that if you take away his name and profile, Fury simply isn't a very good boxer)

Couldn't agree more, incidentally Silva beat Chavez Jr, another bizarre one, even with Jr being a headcase, just read today funnily enough that Jr got sectioned, he's clearly troubled

Yep, I can’t help but feel the fix was in on that one

Deserter wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 16:13

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 11:58

bripez wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 10:54

Have you ever sparred a raw novice and got caught with daft shots - its because they don't know what they are doing and they throw random shots or weird shots that don't exist or are never trained.

The boxer expects certain behaviour and the novice doesn't know or do what is expected.

Overall the trained boxer will take over, however in the meantime they might get caught with a couple of shots.

Its one thing getting clipped from a shot, even dropped but for a world class fighter failing to get to grips over 10 rounds baffles me

yep, I'm with you on this one - I've seen trained fighters at a way lower level have a few moments of awkwardness with a non-boxer, but it doesn't take them long to recalibrate and just start methodically breaking them down. Footwork and timing should be huge differentiators in this context, as well as the ability to apply smart pressure that means the non-boxer is expending way more energy just to stay in the game.
If you look at how Anderson Siva, one of the most famed strikers in MMA history, struggled in boxing, that's in keeping with our expectations, it's the Fury Ngannou outcome that's shocked the system.
(PS I'd also have expected Tommy Fury to have schooled KSI on his jab alone, but i think that's far more about the fact that if you take away his name and profile, Fury simply isn't a very good boxer)

I think the most obvious explanation is Fury is shot. But it could also be a combination of:
1. Fury approaching this with "it's just an exhibition" mind frame, and so not really preparing himself properly for the fight.
2. Ngannou being trained just enough to follow a very strict game plan.

I used to train in many fighting styles. And competed in various codes over the years. But I never thought I'd see a guy on his debut beat a world champion, even if the debutant was the top fighter in another code. It just doesn't happen. Certainly not in boxing. Or so I thought.

Though, I have an example that reminds me of this fight, from a small Taekwondo dojo that used to focus on sparring. They had a very awkward novice, who was trained to throw one or two kicks very well. He went to his first tournament, and he was very unlucky to be drawn against a guy who was close to being a black belt in his first fight. So, his coach had him sit back, and just counter. Just stick with his best basic kick and be patient. The far more experienced guy looked lost as he kept getting tagged with the same one basic kick. The novice won that fight wide.

Having said that, my example comes from an amateur tournament, so I think Fury is just shot at this point.

I do also think sometimes you lower your level to the person you are competing against . As an example I’m not a bad pool player and when I play someone good I focus more, don’t play silly shots, play more defensive etc but when I’m playing someone really bad I assume I’m going to beat them and play more aggressively or go for trick shots etc.. Sometimes it goes wrong and I end up losing to the bad player, or struggling to beat them, not because they are better, just because I didn’t take it more serious.


.

The main reason in this fight was Ngannou heart, toughness and power. Tyson shit himself and then flopped around the ring running and grabbing to avoid any damage.

It was embarrassing to watch.

Fury isn’t nearly as good as his fans say he is. He’s the same fighter who was floored by Cunningham, beaten by McDermott and his performance reminded me of how he fought against Wlad. Timid.

He’s a big bully basically.

I do think there is some validity in what Controversial said in terms of fighting at the level of your opponent. Not taking training as seriously won't have helped either.

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 05:44 I do think there is some validity in what Controversial said in terms of fighting at the level of your opponent. Not taking training as seriously won't have helped either.

Absolute bollocks. This is just excuse making for Fury being a lot worse than people want him to be.

He was in against a debutant known for his crushing power and abysmal gas tank, who has faded early and been dominated in UFC bouts. If he was as good as advertised he’d have comfortably boxed the head off Franky.

He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

Boxers aren’t invincible. Put Fury in the cage and he’d look terrible and I bet would quit really early.

1328613 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 06:11

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 05:44 I do think there is some validity in what Controversial said in terms of fighting at the level of your opponent. Not taking training as seriously won't have helped either.

Absolute bollocks. This is just excuse making for Fury being a lot worse than people want him to be.

He was in against a debutant known for his crushing power and abysmal gas tank, who has faded early and been dominated in UFC bouts. If he was as good as advertised he’d have comfortably boxed the head off Franky.

He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

Boxers aren’t invincible. Put Fury in the cage and he’d look terrible and I bet would quit really early.

Watch the 12th round of Fury v Wilder 1 again and then let's talk about Fury the coward when faced with power.

While you are at it you can watch the third fight again too

- Punch stats show McG landed 111 punches on May after always delusional Max Jellymon stated he would never land a single punch. Remember that McG humiliated Paulie Big Mouth by posting McG KOing Paulie in sparring, so McG could crack some. The Ref Robert Byrd obviously pulled the plug on the embarrassment after May landed his first significant punches at the approximate time that a UFC title fight would end for boxing's happy ending.

After getting beatup twice by Maidana, May had obviously become a spent force in boxing which is why he needed 2 week backdated TUEs and alteration of the official scorecard by the Vegas Commish to post a win for his running performance from Manny who was only trying to serve him the sushi he asked for.

Later May promoted a betting site for his fans by guaranteeing he'd KO Utuber Logan Paul who instead blasted him from pillar to post like some kind of punch dummy. How many million$ did he fleece his fans?

Manny started in Muy Thai, and the Kbros were kickboxers who emasculated three generations of fighters, the last of whom fought a thrilling, but useless low hanging fruit trilogy. For $6 mil which is still a mighty fine purse today, Ali got kicked into a Tokyo ICU for a week by Inoki who could only use 20% if his arsenal in a mixed rules exhibition.

Obviously there is a delusional element in boxing fans who bring up McDermont/Fury to disparage Fury when in fact he knocked out McD twice but only got credit once, and yet they still moan about Pricey. Disparage Flubber for drug use, ducking Wlad, and making a hash of his comeback culminating with Francis who now more popular with casual boxing fans than the dumpling Fury. Yupsir, and now hearing the PPV# coming back as cruel gruel, so he got beat up and humiliated for nothing

Retired Jack Dempsey beat up noted 'rassler of the day Cowboy Lutrell that caused a lot of public heart palpatations.

May/Fury exhibition next? Whacha think Putin could do to teetering Biden? The possibilites are endless on Utube.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 13:38 Why? Mayweather doesn't suddenly become a puncher because he's facing a none boxer. McGregor, was bigger, stronger, faster during that time. And Mayweather has glass hands. Mayweather was generally dominant, he just isn't suddenly going to become a concussive puncher.

In some cases certainly, it’s called being blinded by what you wish were true. Despite Mayweather Jr’s dominant win, some folk still try to go one further and claim that in reality McGregor wasn’t even tough enough to survive past the first round. Bit silly really.

And similarly, nobody who follows boxing only, wanted to believe that an MMA guy could step into a fight with Fury and emerge with any sort of credit or moral victory. Hence all the silly talk beforehand about how Ngannou “wouldn’t win an area boxing title”.

We’ll see it again and again, I expect.

Just like regular ol Boxing. Every match is not the same. You have to look at the 2 fighters, and what they're bringing to the table.

Mayweather I felt it was obvious he was just kinda playing around with McGregor, and I honestly think he had hoped to get a lucrative rematch with McGregor by making it look more competitive than it was.

Fury may have succeeded in pulling off what Mayweather was trying to pull off, but it also might not have been an accident

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 14:23 Just like regular ol Boxing. Every match is not the same. You have to look at the 2 fighters, and what they're bringing to the table.

Mayweather I felt it was obvious he was just kinda playing around with McGregor, and I honestly think he had hoped to get a lucrative rematch with McGregor by making it look more competitive than it was.

Fury may have succeeded in pulling off what Mayweather was trying to pull off, but it also might not have been an accident

I watched the fight again and when Fury was clinching with Ngannou, he looked like a stiff old dog that doesn't like being picked up. the clinch and lean tactic really wasn't working for him there.

I also watched the two McDermott-Fury fights today (with a bit of fast forwarding) and Fury is just bad sometimes. I would have loved to have seen him against Lennox Lewis.

1328613 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 06:11

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 05:44 I do think there is some validity in what Controversial said in terms of fighting at the level of your opponent. Not taking training as seriously won't have helped either.

Absolute bollocks. This is just excuse making for Fury being a lot worse than people want him to be.

He was in against a debutant known for his crushing power and abysmal gas tank, who has faded early and been dominated in UFC bouts. If he was as good as advertised he’d have comfortably boxed the head off Franky.

He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

Boxers aren’t invincible. Put Fury in the cage and he’d look terrible and I bet would quit really early.

nice polite measured post from a newbie. Virgin in Aisle 4.

Coco wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 09:39

1328613 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 06:11

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 05:44 I do think there is some validity in what Controversial said in terms of fighting at the level of your opponent. Not taking training as seriously won't have helped either.

Absolute bollocks. This is just excuse making for Fury being a lot worse than people want him to be.

He was in against a debutant known for his crushing power and abysmal gas tank, who has faded early and been dominated in UFC bouts. If he was as good as advertised he’d have comfortably boxed the head off Franky.

He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

Boxers aren’t invincible. Put Fury in the cage and he’d look terrible and I bet would quit really early.

Watch the 12th round of Fury v Wilder 1 again and then let's talk about Fury the coward when faced with power.

While you are at it you can watch the third fight again too

Why are you calling Fury a coward? Weird…

1328613 wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 06:27

Coco wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 09:39

1328613 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 06:11

Absolute bollocks. This is just excuse making for Fury being a lot worse than people want him to be.

He was in against a debutant known for his crushing power and abysmal gas tank, who has faded early and been dominated in UFC bouts. If he was as good as advertised he’d have comfortably boxed the head off Franky.

He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

Boxers aren’t invincible. Put Fury in the cage and he’d look terrible and I bet would quit really early.

Watch the 12th round of Fury v Wilder 1 again and then let's talk about Fury the coward when faced with power.

While you are at it you can watch the third fight again too

Why are you calling Fury a coward? Weird…

It was you that said that

Read your post


He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

Coco wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 07:33

1328613 wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 06:27

Coco wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023, 09:39

Watch the 12th round of Fury v Wilder 1 again and then let's talk about Fury the coward when faced with power.

While you are at it you can watch the third fight again too

Why are you calling Fury a coward? Weird…

It was you that said that

Read your post


He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

I see him as more of a bully but if you want to call him a coward go ahead.

1328613 wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 16:19

Coco wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 07:33

1328613 wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 06:27

Why are you calling Fury a coward? Weird…

It was you that said that

Read your post


He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

I see him as more of a bully but if you want to call him a coward go ahead.

You are the one who said he shit himself after being hit, you really need to read your own posts.

As I said, watch the Wilder fights to see how he reacts to getting hit and then come back to me.

MMA fighters are still world class professional fighters. They can read feints and time people and take punches and have power, plus they're not fazed by big fight nerves and are extremely well conditioned.

If a big part of your game is being bigger and stronger and suffocating and wrestling opponents into submission like Fury, then he should have adequately prepared for somebody that could not only take away that part of his game, but also do it far better than him.

This idea that they're clueless amateurs who can't fight should be put to bed after the other weekend. Ngannou is a big, huge, nasty mother*cker who can fight. Respect.

Fury is a fat lazy spoiled pig, and got shown up as such.

Coco wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 18:04

1328613 wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 16:19

Coco wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 07:33

It was you that said that

Read your post


He shit himself from the power and struggled with Francis heart and courage. It’s plain to see.

I see him as more of a bully but if you want to call him a coward go ahead.

You are the one who said he shit himself after being hit, you really need to read your own posts.

As I said, watch the Wilder fights to see how he reacts to getting hit and then come back to me.

Id rather focus on his most recent fight, the one in which he shit himself from Francis power. You know, the one the threads about.

Did you see his eyes go wide whenever Francis hit him? It’s called ‘showing out’ and is usually derided in boxing.

What’s your thoughts on this fight and not the previous Wilder fights that took place a few years back?

Mayweather absolutely toyed with McGregor, he was happy for Connor to tea off on him and you never saw that with Floyd, he clearly carried him to give the fans value for money.

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑08 Nov 2023, 07:01 Mayweather absolutely toyed with McGregor, he was happy for Connor to tea off on him and you never saw that with Floyd, he clearly carried him to give the fans value for money.

As I never get tired of saying, I am not a supporter of Mayweather as he is a woman beating cnt.
He did however, walk down the much larger man and knock him out as soon as he felt like it.