My initial reaction is no .But in a conversation like this we do have to talk about specifics.
Boxing is a tough, tough sport - "the hurt business" as Sugar Ray Robinson called it when he sat in court.
It's a subjective thing, but I would much rather see a man take a knee and take the 10 count (live to fight another day) rather than getting his head battered off him round after round. It is entertainment and we do want action, but one-sided bouts suck the enjoyment out of me for me. I think that most fans are the same.
Just off the top of my head I'm thinking about Fury/Chisora 2 when Tyson kept looking at the referee when Del Boy wasn't really firing back for a round or so and Tyson was just picking him off.... A good referee would save Del Boy, step in between them and say "right lads, we'll leave it there, f@ck it" and wave it off...
I also look at David Price's fights with Tony Thompson - didn't Pricey take panic attacks when his power just wasn't working, in some way reminiscent of Oliver McCall's emotional breakdown against Lennox Lewis. When those sort of emotions come to the fore, a fighter just isn't in the right headspace to continue the battle and the fight should be called....
Another thing that I would say is fighters have their own goals and expectations. I think i'm right in saying that David Allen said in an interview that he considered his 10-rounder with Dillian Whyte a good achievement, taking one of the world's top Heavyweights the distance... And that he had hoped to do the 12 rounds against David Price.
Everone getting home safe and sound is always a major plus for the sport.
Re: Is There Any Shame In A Boxer Quitting?
Posted: 10 Mar 2024, 06:53
by jamesmcdonnell
Fray Bentos wrote: ↑08 Mar 2024, 09:30
Max Baer said when he quit against Joe Louis 'because you paid twenty dollars for a ringside seat doesn't entitle you to a public execution' I always thought that was a good answer - if someone has had enough then what can one do to send them back out for more punishment?
I do like it when a journeyman bangs the home fighter out though, or wins so comprehensively they have to give him it on points. Serge Ambono did it recently although he was an Olympic boxer so hardly usual journeyman material.
In terms of a boxer quitting, nobody wants to see it as it goes against the grain of the sport, but it's them getting punched in the face. Only ones I have issue with is dodgy ones like Gomez vs Mcdonagh but looked a bit bet-fraudy
I saw Peter Buckley ko a cheeky prospect once
excellent
the Hull one did the same, will dig out the link, was a light heavy / cruiser / hw his name escapes me, watched an excellent documentary about him
Tony booth? Does an ali shuffle then kos the prospect lol
excellent
the Hull one did the same, will dig out the link, was a light heavy / cruiser / hw his name escapes me, watched an excellent documentary about him
Tony booth? Does an ali shuffle then kos the prospect lol
SeanBrennan wrote: ↑09 Mar 2024, 14:59
excellent
the Hull one did the same, will dig out the link, was a light heavy / cruiser / hw his name escapes me, watched an excellent documentary about him
Tony booth? Does an ali shuffle then kos the prospect lol
No. If a guy has tried his best and come up short, then it's his right to decide he has had enough.
Nothing worse than seeing a bloke taking unneccessary punishment because of a 'brave' corner or a sadist posing as a ref.
There are one or two exceptions maybe.
Charle Zelenoff (331-0. Undefeated and Undisputed UBF/BMF/WBC Champion P4P #1 GOAT More Power than Prime Tyson Highest Paid Fighter Fastest KO in history 0.1 sec) jumping out the ring when 1-13 Andrew Hartley popped him in the face 30 seconds into the 'fight'.
And one night I was watching one of those long Mogens Palle shows from Denmark with a host of unbeaten (and mostly untested) Danish pros against guys on losing streaks. I forget which one of the favourites it was but his opponent had not read the script and by the midway point was well on top and looked to be getting stronger. Then during a round break there's some fella at the bottom of the steps tugging on the shirt of one of the opponent's corner men. At the end of the next round he is back again. More animated this time. They must have done a deal as the opponent suddenly slowed right down, stopped working, faded and then failed to come out for the last round. Something was rotten in the kingdom of Denmark that night.
Mind you, there were a few funny things on those Palle cards. That night the local ref was holding up a completely knackered Super Brian Nielsen was fekkin gold.
Giancarlo wrote: ↑12 Mar 2024, 03:07
No. If a guy has tried his best and come up short, then it's his right to decide he has had enough.
Nothing worse than seeing a bloke taking unneccessary punishment because of a 'brave' corner or a sadist posing as a ref.
There are one or two exceptions maybe.
Charle Zelenoff (331-0. Undefeated and Undisputed UBF/BMF/WBC Champion P4P #1 GOAT More Power than Prime Tyson Highest Paid Fighter Fastest KO in history 0.1 sec) jumping out the ring when 1-13 Andrew Hartley popped him in the face 30 seconds into the 'fight'.
And one night I was watching one of those long Mogens Palle shows from Denmark with a host of unbeaten (and mostly untested) Danish pros against guys on losing streaks. I forget which one of the favourites it was but his opponent had not read the script and by the midway point was well on top and looked to be getting stronger. Then during a round break there's some fella at the bottom of the steps tugging on the shirt of one of the opponent's corner men. At the end of the next round he is back again. More animated this time. They must have done a deal as the opponent suddenly slowed right down, stopped working, faded and then failed to come out for the last round. Something was rotten in the kingdom of Denmark that night.
Mind you, there were a few funny things on those Palle cards. That night the local ref was holding up a completely knackered Super Brian Nielsen was fekkin gold.
Even then, a normal bloke isn't conditioned to take a punch, and the normal reaction is to panic.
Charlie prob had never taken a punch in his life before
emallini wrote: ↑08 Mar 2024, 13:32
Very few fighters do not have a breaking point.
even Drago did....
Drago had a breaking point but not Balboa.
Drago even said it himself "I can't break him"
Re: Is There Any Shame In A Boxer Quitting?
Posted: 13 Mar 2024, 04:11
by Greg Houston
There shouldn't be any shame in it. Even if the boxer has been mouthy beforehand, if they are well beaten and/or suffering serious injury, then I would much rather see them give it up and preserve their health. It can be embarrassing if they have complained about other boxers quitting or banged on about how great they are, but not shameful.
It actually angers me when some fans and pundits seem to prefer a boxer being blinded (e.g. Brook v Spence) or possibly killed than accept defeat. I used to get so annoyed with Watt's attitudes towards boxers who pulled out. I still remember him complaining about McClellan against Benn. Given at the time he didn't know the extent of his injuries, but he never seemed to learn from that moment, and twenty years later was still giving it the same attitude.
Lenny Cravats wrote: ↑08 Mar 2024, 13:19
As fans, we should never be ashamed of a man that wanted to pull out of a fight he's risking his life and health to complete.
No truer word said on this forum
100 percent. When I was younger and less mature I would have said different. But no shame at all. I'll never forget McCellan- Benn and Jim Watt exclaiming "He's quit" as Gerald sat out the count. I don't blame Watt for saying that but only the boxer knows what sensations they are feeling in that moment. Risking permanent injury in the name of bravery is just not worth it. Just stepping into the ring is brave enough in itself.
Anyone remember Peter Oboh quitting before even his walkout as a protest to being frozen out of fights?
Lenny Cravats wrote: ↑08 Mar 2024, 13:19
As fans, we should never be ashamed of a man that wanted to pull out of a fight he's risking his life and health to complete.
No truer word said on this forum
100 percent. When I was younger and less mature I would have said different. But no shame at all. I'll never forget McCellan- Benn and Jim Watt exclaiming "He's quit" as Gerald sat out the count. I don't blame Watt for saying that but only the boxer knows what sensations they are feeling in that moment. Risking permanent injury in the name of bravery is just not worth it. Just stepping into the ring is brave enough in itself.
Anyone remember Peter Oboh quitting before even his walkout as a protest to being frozen out of fights?
Respected him for that!
Not as good as Andrew Lewis quitting because he needed to go for a sh!t
emallini wrote: ↑08 Mar 2024, 13:32
Very few fighters do not have a breaking point.
even Drago did....
Drago had a breaking point but not Balboa.
Drago even said it himself "I can't break him"
"He's like a ball of steel". Balboa won as Drago was an evil Russian using drugs whilst Balboa was a super clean living man chopping wood and doing ninja upside down sit ups. Do not mention Sly banging growth hormone in though....
thanks a lot!