BoxRec

Ricky wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:04 I think Lennox Lewis was the best ever and would've been a bridge too far for Usyk. Lewis could've boxed with him, but the difference in power would've been a big edge.

I definitely have Lewis in my top 5, he would be higher except for losing to two quite ordinary fights, but of course, he did avenge both defeats.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:08

Ricky wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:04 I think Lennox Lewis was the best ever and would've been a bridge too far for Usyk. Lewis could've boxed with him, but the difference in power would've been a big edge.

I definitely have Lewis in my top 5, he would be higher except for losing to two quite ordinary fights, but of course, he did avenge both defeats.

I think the ease in how he avenged both show he messed up in the defeats in the first place.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:08

Ricky wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:04 I think Lennox Lewis was the best ever and would've been a bridge too far for Usyk. Lewis could've boxed with him, but the difference in power would've been a big edge.

I definitely have Lewis in my top 5, he would be higher except for losing to two quite ordinary fights, but of course, he did avenge both defeats.

hmmmm.... well, the majority of great fighters are well before my time anyway so I don't speak on the ATG subject with much authority, but to retort your point; anyone who I'd consider placing above Lewis would've suffered defeats as well.

514126 wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:12

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:08

Ricky wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:04 I think Lennox Lewis was the best ever and would've been a bridge too far for Usyk. Lewis could've boxed with him, but the difference in power would've been a big edge.

I definitely have Lewis in my top 5, he would be higher except for losing to two quite ordinary fights, but of course, he did avenge both defeats.

I think the ease in how he avenged both show he messed up in the defeats in the first place.

Yes, but you have to lose some credit for not producing the goods when you're the huge favourite. Lennox could be a little too complacent, which is a weakness, he doesn't get a pass for that.

Ricky wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:13

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:08

Ricky wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:04 I think Lennox Lewis was the best ever and would've been a bridge too far for Usyk. Lewis could've boxed with him, but the difference in power would've been a big edge.

I definitely have Lewis in my top 5, he would be higher except for losing to two quite ordinary fights, but of course, he did avenge both defeats.

hmmmm.... well, the majority of great fighters are well before my time anyway so I don't speak on the ATG subject with much authority, but to retort your point; anyone who I'd consider placing above Lewis would've suffered defeats as well.

Yes, but maybe not to fighters of that calibre.

Anyway, it's all conjecture, just my opinion, doesn't make me right.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:14

514126 wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:12

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:08

I definitely have Lewis in my top 5, he would be higher except for losing to two quite ordinary fights, but of course, he did avenge both defeats.

I think the ease in how he avenged both show he messed up in the defeats in the first place.

Yes, but you have to lose some credit for not producing the goods when you're the huge favourite. Lennox could be a little too complacent, which is a weakness, he doesn't get a pass for that.

I agree

514126 wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:19

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:14

514126 wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:12

I think the ease in how he avenged both show he messed up in the defeats in the first place.

Yes, but you have to lose some credit for not producing the goods when you're the huge favourite. Lennox could be a little too complacent, which is a weakness, he doesn't get a pass for that.

I agree

The GOAT did it with Leon Spinks, he's still the GOAT right?

I don’t think he loved fighting taller fighters such as Akinwande and Vitali, but for Usyk that massive jab setting up the big right is not good news.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 16:59 There aren't many Heavies I'd pick Lewis to beat on his best night, Ali, (the speed, stamina, toughness and will to win) Holmes (the jab would have taken away one of Lewis' biggest weapons and Larry was very hard to outmanouver too) and Foreman. Foreman was very very tough, even past his best, and he definitely had the weapons to flatten Lewis.

Those are the only three really that I could see being able prime for prime to own Lewis. I'd have picked a young Tyson to beat Lewis, but not the peak version of Lewis - Lennox was a late bloomer.

Holyfield in his absolute Prime was a problem with any heavyweight. He was a little past his considerable best by the time they fought, and still gave a good account of himself in both fights, especially the 2nd.

Holmes is the absolute worst head to head matchup for Lewis. You really couldn't pick a worse opponent for Lewis to fight. I think Lewis would get picked apart. Ali in his younger fleet footed years would be a handful. One person I think would give Lewis problems is Liston. He's got a good jab and nice head movement. If he gets inside, it's all Liston. From the outside Liston is a nice punch picker. I think he gets underrated. I really love Marciano but it's hard to put him up there on size, although his entire style was based on using that size to his advantage. A prime Bowe from the first Holyfield fight is a very very difficult man to beat indeed. Tyson was awesome in his prime but what would happen if Lewis landed his uppercut or right hand? Lewis has more heart than Tyson for me. Tyson has to win that one big because if it turns into a tough fight I think Lewis would outlast him. I think Lewis might have bombed Foreman out. Patterson if he had a chin would have been in the conversation due to his lightning speed coming through. That Brian London fight was a horrific beating by Patterson. My word did London take a hiding there. I think it's obvious that a prime Lewis blasts either Klitschko out inside 6. The Vitali fight is such a great addition to his legacy. He showed that if he needs to go after someone, you can bet your bottom dollar that Lennox will be coming after them.

Usyk is the best heavyweight since Lewis for me. I think he takes Wlad and also edges Vitali.

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:52

514126 wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:19

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 17:14

Yes, but you have to lose some credit for not producing the goods when you're the huge favourite. Lennox could be a little too complacent, which is a weakness, he doesn't get a pass for that.

I agree

The GOAT did it with Leon Spinks, he's still the GOAT right?

Ali was well on the slide by then, not really relevant.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 18:12

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 16:59 There aren't many Heavies I'd pick Lewis to beat on his best night, Ali, (the speed, stamina, toughness and will to win) Holmes (the jab would have taken away one of Lewis' biggest weapons and Larry was very hard to outmanouver too) and Foreman. Foreman was very very tough, even past his best, and he definitely had the weapons to flatten Lewis.

Those are the only three really that I could see being able prime for prime to own Lewis. I'd have picked a young Tyson to beat Lewis, but not the peak version of Lewis - Lennox was a late bloomer.

Holyfield in his absolute Prime was a problem with any heavyweight. He was a little past his considerable best by the time they fought, and still gave a good account of himself in both fights, especially the 2nd.

Holmes is the absolute worst head to head matchup for Lewis. You really couldn't pick a worse opponent for Lewis to fight. I think Lewis would get picked apart. Ali in his younger fleet footed years would be a handful. One person I think would give Lewis problems is Liston. He's got a good jab and nice head movement. If he gets inside, it's all Liston. From the outside Liston is a nice punch picker. I think he gets underrated. I really love Marciano but it's hard to put him up there on size, although his entire style was based on using that size to his advantage. A prime Bowe from the first Holyfield fight is a very very difficult man to beat indeed. Tyson was awesome in his prime but what would happen if Lewis landed his uppercut or right hand? Lewis has more heart than Tyson for me. Tyson has to win that one big because if it turns into a tough fight I think Lewis would outlast him. I think Lewis might have bombed Foreman out. Patterson if he had a chin would have been in the conversation due to his lightning speed coming through. I think it's obvious that a prime Lewis blasts either Klitschko out inside 6. The Vitali fight is such a great addition to his legacy. He showed that if he needs to go after someone, you can bet your bottom dollar that Lennox will be coming after them.

Usyk is the best heavyweight since Lewis for me. I think he takes Wlad and also edges Vitali.

Well, I always thought Bowe would have beaten lewis, especially at that stage. I didn't mention him as they were the same era.

Was always a big fan of Lewis , also throw in ALI ,and especielly Holmes and a bunch of others , i'm a big fan of Usyks has well , i just love to see guys who are technicly good .

But i think theres a number of the heavyweights who could of beat Usyk , even though his footwork , distancing is subline and a joy to watch , i do think the era he's in has done him big favors , Lewiss , Ali , Hollyfield Holmes WERE NOT big stiff slowish punchers , ala AJ they were not heavyweights with massive size and reach and a poorish chin , ala Fury .

Leaving his left hand partially extended to shorten his jab was sometimes a Lewis weakness when he ate counters for it, and what an invitation for a southpaw as brilliant as Usyk, but I don't think he could deprive Lewis of his defensive senses long enough to drop him, and if it turned into a firefight it's Lewis all day.

I could see Uysk winning a couple of early rounds, but whether ahead and growing in confidence or behind and needing to rally, I feel it inevitable that Lewis' skilled delivery of power would've been too much. KO/TKO around midway.

I've read a lot of nonsense about Wilder being the hardest puncher since Tyson this week, when Lewis and a few others were above Tyson for one-punch power.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 16:15

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 11:58 I think Lewis gets overrated. Bruno outjabbed him. Holyfield went on to have a trilogy with John Ruiz after their fights. There are people who think Holyfield won the second fight. I haven't watched it in years. It's arguable that Usyk beats everyone on his record. I certainly don't see him losing to McCall and Rahman. Fury was giving Usyk problems with his length and uppercuts and that sways things in Lewis' favour for me but only just. I think Usyk would give him problems but Lewis is far far superior to Fury and has lights out power in his right hand. He went up in my estimation in the Vitali fight. Took good shots and was well on his way to knocking him out for me.

Lewis that fought Bruno wasn't at his peak yet, still quite a few years off, I'd say Lewis' prime was around 28-32.

Bruno did outjab him, but then Lewis did what he needed to do, and took him apart.

I think Usyk is incredibly professional, and takes every fight seriously, I think Lewis thought McCall was just a patsy who would crumble, and thought Rahman was an also ran. Don't see Usyk ever coming in less than 100% prepared.

I think Bruno fought the best he'd ever done in that fight, well until he got tired anyway, he was like a man possessed, probably fired up due to Lewis and Maloney's wind up antics in the build up.

on his best night lennox beats them all.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 02:34 on his best night lennox beats them all.

Just came here to say this!

His right hand could take anyone’s head off.

Real latent power. Not like Wilder’s hail Mary’s.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 04:26

Steveh583 wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 02:34 on his best night lennox beats them all.

Just came here to say this!

His right hand could take anyone’s head off.

Real latent power. Not like Wilder’s hail Mary’s.

The thing about Wilder, he threw all of his body behind his shots, and was often off balance when he threw, which meant he might generate a lot of power in one shot, but he was then off balance for a follow up.

Lewis was technically close to perfect when he threw power shots.

I think LL would clean him out pretty handily.

As great as folk rate Usyk, even this ‘great’ has a flaw and I think its being on the receiving end.

Think he’d run for the hills once tasting a few right hands. Don’t doubt he could sneak lots of rounds, but yeah, think LL would put him over and he’d stay over.

Lewis would have stopped him but I also would think Holyfield would have his number, he would be on his case all night with body shots just hammering him - I think Holyfield vs Uysk would be the better match up, a good match up of styles.

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:19 Lewis would have stopped him but I also would think Holyfield would have his number, he would be on his case all night with body shots just hammering him - I think Holyfield vs Uysk would be the better match up, a good match up of styles.

Funnily enough was going to start a thread about Holyfield v Usyk, I too think Holyfield would have been too much, Holyfield was much more aggressive than Usyk at heavyweight. His fights with Bowe were insane, and Bowe at that point, was at the height of his powers, and for me, was for a brief period, almost like the ultimate heavyweight. Holyfield stood toe to toe in the 1st fight, and came of 2nd best, in fight 2, he fought a bit smarter and came in and out throwing heavy combinations and prevailed.

I suppose though, you could argue the Holyfield who lost to Moorer, could have lost to Usyk, but Holy had a torn rotator cuff going into that fight supposedly.

I think the style matchup favours holyfield, who had quick feet and hands, I don't see him blowing out Usyk, but I think he would win most of the exchanges, and force Usyk into standing and trading at times, which would have suited him.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:58

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:19 Lewis would have stopped him but I also would think Holyfield would have his number, he would be on his case all night with body shots just hammering him - I think Holyfield vs Uysk would be the better match up, a good match up of styles.

Funnily enough was going to start a thread about Holyfield v Usyk, I too think Holyfield would have been too much, Holyfield was much more aggressive than Usyk at heavyweight. His fights with Bowe were insane, and Bowe at that point, was at the height of his powers, and for me, was for a brief period, almost like the ultimate heavyweight. Holyfield stood toe to toe in the 1st fight, and came of 2nd best, in fight 2, he fought a bit smarter and came in and out throwing heavy combinations and prevailed.

I suppose though, you could argue the Holyfield who lost to Moorer, could have lost to Usyk, but Holy had a torn rotator cuff going into that fight supposedly.

I think the style matchup favours holyfield, who had quick feet and hands, I don't see him blowing out Usyk, but I think he would win most of the exchanges, and force Usyk into standing and trading at times, which would have suited him.

I think yes the 37 year version of Holyfield found in Lewis 2 (to make it fairer) would still probably have edged out the 37 year old version of Usyk. I think there’s just a bit more devil in Holyfield’s work.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:58

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:19 Lewis would have stopped him but I also would think Holyfield would have his number, he would be on his case all night with body shots just hammering him - I think Holyfield vs Uysk would be the better match up, a good match up of styles.

Funnily enough was going to start a thread about Holyfield v Usyk, I too think Holyfield would have been too much, Holyfield was much more aggressive than Usyk at heavyweight. His fights with Bowe were insane, and Bowe at that point, was at the height of his powers, and for me, was for a brief period, almost like the ultimate heavyweight. Holyfield stood toe to toe in the 1st fight, and came of 2nd best, in fight 2, he fought a bit smarter and came in and out throwing heavy combinations and prevailed.

I suppose though, you could argue the Holyfield who lost to Moorer, could have lost to Usyk, but Holy had a torn rotator cuff going into that fight supposedly.

I think the style matchup favours holyfield, who had quick feet and hands, I don't see him blowing out Usyk, but I think he would win most of the exchanges, and force Usyk into standing and trading at times, which would have suited him.

For a come forward fighter - Holyfields defence was sublime and he was really hard to catch cleanly, even Lewis had problems with him regards that - and as Usyk doesn't like it to the body and lets you know that - Holyfield would have had his number - it would have been a great fight - one of the few I would have paid 25 quid for PPV.

polecateddy wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 07:07

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:58

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:19 Lewis would have stopped him but I also would think Holyfield would have his number, he would be on his case all night with body shots just hammering him - I think Holyfield vs Uysk would be the better match up, a good match up of styles.

Funnily enough was going to start a thread about Holyfield v Usyk, I too think Holyfield would have been too much, Holyfield was much more aggressive than Usyk at heavyweight. His fights with Bowe were insane, and Bowe at that point, was at the height of his powers, and for me, was for a brief period, almost like the ultimate heavyweight. Holyfield stood toe to toe in the 1st fight, and came of 2nd best, in fight 2, he fought a bit smarter and came in and out throwing heavy combinations and prevailed.

I suppose though, you could argue the Holyfield who lost to Moorer, could have lost to Usyk, but Holy had a torn rotator cuff going into that fight supposedly.

I think the style matchup favours holyfield, who had quick feet and hands, I don't see him blowing out Usyk, but I think he would win most of the exchanges, and force Usyk into standing and trading at times, which would have suited him.

I think yes the 37 year version of Holyfield found in Lewis 2 (to make it fairer) would still probably have edged out the 37 year old version of Usyk. I think there’s just a bit more devil in Holyfield’s work.

You're not Jim Watt are you?

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 07:19

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:58

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 06:19 Lewis would have stopped him but I also would think Holyfield would have his number, he would be on his case all night with body shots just hammering him - I think Holyfield vs Uysk would be the better match up, a good match up of styles.

Funnily enough was going to start a thread about Holyfield v Usyk, I too think Holyfield would have been too much, Holyfield was much more aggressive than Usyk at heavyweight. His fights with Bowe were insane, and Bowe at that point, was at the height of his powers, and for me, was for a brief period, almost like the ultimate heavyweight. Holyfield stood toe to toe in the 1st fight, and came of 2nd best, in fight 2, he fought a bit smarter and came in and out throwing heavy combinations and prevailed.

I suppose though, you could argue the Holyfield who lost to Moorer, could have lost to Usyk, but Holy had a torn rotator cuff going into that fight supposedly.

I think the style matchup favours holyfield, who had quick feet and hands, I don't see him blowing out Usyk, but I think he would win most of the exchanges, and force Usyk into standing and trading at times, which would have suited him.

For a come forward fighter - Holyfields defence was sublime and he was really hard to catch cleanly, even Lewis had problems with him regards that - and as Usyk doesn't like it to the body and lets you know that - Holyfield would have had his number - it would have been a great fight - one of the few I would have paid 25 quid for PPV.

I think Usyk would probably have gone the distance, he's good enough tactically, but he'd have been forced to survive rather than play offence down the stretch.

No chance he could have hurt holyfield the way he did Fury, Holyfield ate punches from a Prime Lewis and Bowe without budging.

Always hard when your picking past or present , when you go to far back the heavyweights were usually smaller , but a good small one can beat a reasonable big one we all know that , myself i was a big BIG fan of Ali , but Norton had his number , i was also a massive fan of Holmes , , big big fan of Lewis , and i beieve that Usyk has come along and stood out so highly simply because he's a throwback to GOOD TRAINING , , time spent on distancing , footwork , technicality of his punches and taught to think , wheras , modern boxers are more trained by conditioners , and spend too much time on weights and stuff detrimental to what there doing , I'm biased but give me the older style boxers , of course unless there trained by old fashioned trainers , guys like Mayweather , , Lomenchenko and a few others,