Usyk's p4p ranking this century?

[squiggy]

To me he's knocking on the door of the top 10, but not quite in it yet.

[greg]

I don't know how legit it is to rank ANY boxer right after his successful career-defining fight. Let him retire, wait 3-5 years and THEN compare him with all the rest of them...

[joshj909]

I don't know how legit it is to rank ANY boxer right after his successful career-defining fight. Let him retire, wait 3-5 years and THEN compare him with all the rest of them...

I do think this is important. Imagine assessing Lewis's career without knowing how far Vitali would go or assessing Mayweather's without knowing what would happen to Canelo.

Dubois could go on to dominate the division which would boost Usyk's record immensely, while Dubois, Fury and Joshua could go on to lose their next few fights which doesn't help it at all.

[giacomino]

I don't know how legit it is to rank ANY boxer right after his successful career-defining fight. Let him retire, wait 3-5 years and THEN compare him with all the rest of them...

This. I would say 15-20 years. Somebody always starts a thread like this right after a fighter wins a big fight, typically with responses from folk who didn’t watch live boxing before 1995 or so

[apollo creed]

Well, he deserve it. Its very hard to understand for the average people how difficult is for a small HW like Usyk to fight a very big skillful fighter like Fury. I mean Fury is not just big and powerful, he is also a very smart and a very talented fighter. Fury was much better prepared for the 2nd fight with Usyk.

[klitoris]

To truly understand Usyk's greatness we need to reflect on what the overall boxing community mindset was like before each of the 4 fights he had with Joshua and Fury. Before each first fight there would be a story of how Usyk is too small to win. Before the first Fury fight there would be the argument that Fury is simply much bigger and more skilled than Joshua so it's gonna be different for Usyk. For both of the second fights the story was that Joshua and Fury "underestimated Usyk", "weren't ready", "chose the wrong game plan", "got bad coaching", etc.
Now after the four fights the story is "Joshua and Fury are simply weak heavyweights, Usyk is only winning because the heavyweights are extremely weak." But these are the people that would also be calling both Joshua and Fury first ballot HOFs when they were dominating others in the division.

My point is that true greatness usually comes with many people doing all they can to deny that greatness in the public sphere. Many boxing fans are uncomfortable adjusting their historical perception of who the greatest fighters of all time are. Sometimes this is simply because they don't want to do it emotionally. Sometimes it might be because of some subconscious racism or connection to the boxers of your country. Point is that Usyk stirs this pot a lot. He stirs the conversation and gets people emotional on the topic. And people wouldn't get emotional about if deep down they didn't see the rationality of judging Usyk to be one of the (if not the) best HWs in history.

[NateJR]

To truly understand Usyk's greatness we need to reflect on what the overall boxing community mindset was like before each of the 4 fights he had with Joshua and Fury. Before each first fight there would be a story of how Usyk is too small to win. Before the first Fury fight there would be the argument that Fury is simply much bigger and more skilled than Joshua so it's gonna be different for Usyk. For both of the second fights the story was that Joshua and Fury "underestimated Usyk", "weren't ready", "chose the wrong game plan", "got bad coaching", etc.
Now after the four fights the story is "Joshua and Fury are simply weak heavyweights, Usyk is only winning because the heavyweights are extremely weak." But these are the people that would also be calling both Joshua and Fury first ballot HOFs when they were dominating others in the division.

My point is that true greatness usually comes with many people doing all they can to deny that greatness in the public sphere. Many boxing fans are uncomfortable adjusting their historical perception of who the greatest fighters of all time are. Sometimes this is simply because they don't want to do it emotionally. Sometimes it might be because of some subconscious racism or connection to the boxers of your country. Point is that Usyk stirs this pot a lot. He stirs the conversation and gets people emotional on the topic. And people wouldn't get emotional about if deep down they didn't see the rationality of judging Usyk to be one of the (if not the) best HWs in history.

This is the story the media sold and many "casuals" like I see mostly post on here took it line hook and sinker. Most If not all real boxing fans I know have been saying the HW division is historically bad and rightfully so. Use your brain, use your eyes and do some real research. The HW division is littered with over sized men with limited skill.

That's no dig at Usyk, he's a proper boxer, but he's not fighting near the talent of the 70s-90s. It's not even close.

[giacomino]

Well, he deserve it. Its very hard to understand for the average people how difficult is for a small HW like Usyk to fight a very big skillful fighter like Fury. I mean Fury is not just big and powerful, he is also a very smart and a very talented fighter. Fury was much better prepared for the 2nd fight with Usyk.

No he doesn’t. I have been singing his praises since he was an amateur, but a lot of the posting on here re: historical context comes from people who have been watching boxing live less than 20 years and is typical of what fans say 15 min after somebody wins a big fight.