Should Johnny Nelson Drop His WBO Belt ????????

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 01 Apr 2005, 19:30

DavidPayne wrote:£70-100k a defence? Is that reason enough?

Deduct the sanctioning fees (isn't that usually around the 20K) though.

Nelson should make that as a former undefeated WBO champion. If he reliquishes the belt most in the UK will still see him as a champ. Like Barrera, but obviously on a much smaller scale.

However, a few years ago I would have said Yes, Yes, Yes. Now I think he should fight Maccrinelli and retire win lose or draw. I think the ambition for unification and big fights as gone.

I was thinking about Nelson the other day, I'm not convinced about him (to say the least). I did think, why was there never a rematch offered for the three fighters who gave him the most problems as a champion (Sellars, Jones, and Dominguez). I wonder if he deep down knows he was a tad lucky in those three fights.

Buster · Post by **Buster** » 01 Apr 2005, 21:15

Because the Yanks wouldn't televise a Nelson fight.... it makes me laugh though because they are quite happy to put a fighter like John Ruiz who is painful to watch on a HBO PPV.

Braithwaite who I think will win wouldn't come to England to face Nelson, nor would Mormeck.

I like watching Nelson when he is in the right mood. It just seems like when he gets in with dangerous guys like Sellers, Jones he goes on the back foot and hardly throws a punch. :( Sellers was the one who decided to stalk Nelson after a few rounds of counterpunching which led to the stoppage otherwise I dont think we would have seen a punch thrown let alone land.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 02 Apr 2005, 04:31

Buster wrote:Because the Yanks wouldn't televise a Nelson fight.... it makes me laugh though because they are quite happy to put a fighter like John Ruiz who is painful to watch on a HBO PPV.

Braithwaite who I think will win wouldn't come to England to face Nelson, nor would Mormeck.

I like watching Nelson when he is in the right mood. It just seems like when he gets in with dangerous guys like Sellers, Jones he goes on the back foot and hardly throws a punch. :( Sellers was the one who decided to stalk Nelson after a few rounds of counterpunching which led to the stoppage otherwise I dont think we would have seen a punch thrown let alone land.

1 Ruiz is a heavyweight world champ. Big difference.
2 Johnny would probably go to the US and fight Braithwaite. But would he get the chance? No.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 02 Apr 2005, 06:07

Slapsie Maxie wrote:for all the fact that he was involved in one of the great stinkers of our, or any other, time, I can't help having a soft spot for JN

One of?

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 02 Apr 2005, 08:34

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Buster wrote:Because the Yanks wouldn't televise a Nelson fight.... it makes me laugh though because they are quite happy to put a fighter like John Ruiz who is painful to watch on a HBO PPV.

Braithwaite who I think will win wouldn't come to England to face Nelson, nor would Mormeck.

I like watching Nelson when he is in the right mood. It just seems like when he gets in with dangerous guys like Sellers, Jones he goes on the back foot and hardly throws a punch. :( Sellers was the one who decided to stalk Nelson after a few rounds of counterpunching which led to the stoppage otherwise I dont think we would have seen a punch thrown let alone land.
1 Ruiz is a heavyweight world champ. Big difference.
2 Johnny would probably go to the US and fight Braithwaite. But would he get the chance? No.

Get real. Johnny at this stage of his career would never go to the states to face an unbeaten banger like Braithwaite. I think Johnnys been pretty damn lucky the way things have went for him. His opposition recently has been no where near world class. He's on the way out.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 02 Apr 2005, 10:04

mrbassie wrote:
Slapsie Maxie wrote:for all the fact that he was involved in one of the great stinkers of our, or any other, time, I can't help having a soft spot for JN
One of?

True

I was particularly thinking of the Deleon fight which did actually send me to sleep.

Slapsie

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 02 Apr 2005, 12:06

I have to echo others here in saying that I to enjoy Johnny Nelson as a pundit, he talks a lot of sence. IMO.

As for Nelson vs Enzo? I can't see that fight happening to be honest. It's just a feeling, can't see SN wanting to risk there new Welsh crord puller getting beaten by a fighter who is about to retire anyway.

Enzo vs Hobson however would style wise make for a better fight IMO.

What odds on Nelson ending his career giving Carl Thompson a rematch? If he can't tempt another title holder into the ring with him.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 02 Apr 2005, 15:22

If only to hear Thompsons saying the word "Johnny". Always has me in stitches hearing that. "Come on fight me Joneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh"

Zhuge · Post by **Zhuge** » 03 Apr 2005, 01:24

Buster wrote:Because the Yanks wouldn't televise a Nelson fight.... it makes me laugh though because they are quite happy to put a fighter like John Ruiz who is painful to watch on a HBO PPV.

I'd be willing to bet Showtime would televise a Nelson fight.

They've shown quite a few British fighters, including John McDermott (hopefully we won't see him again), so if Nelson stepped up to fight a top contender or another title holder, he'd easily be on.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 03 Apr 2005, 07:23

Lefthookhappy19 wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Buster wrote:Because the Yanks wouldn't televise a Nelson fight.... it makes me laugh though because they are quite happy to put a fighter like John Ruiz who is painful to watch on a HBO PPV.

Braithwaite who I think will win wouldn't come to England to face Nelson, nor would Mormeck.

I like watching Nelson when he is in the right mood. It just seems like when he gets in with dangerous guys like Sellers, Jones he goes on the back foot and hardly throws a punch. :( Sellers was the one who decided to stalk Nelson after a few rounds of counterpunching which led to the stoppage otherwise I dont think we would have seen a punch thrown let alone land.
1 Ruiz is a heavyweight world champ. Big difference.
2 Johnny would probably go to the US and fight Braithwaite. But would he get the chance? No.
Get real. Johnny at this stage of his career would never go to the states to face an unbeaten banger like Braithwaite. I think Johnnys been pretty damn lucky the way things have went for him. His opposition recently has been no where near world class. He's on the way out.

Have you asked him? Because I fornicating have. He knows he's on his way out which is why the Cantatore delay is doing his head in. He wants to get moving and earn a few quid. Put the money on the table and he'd fight Braithwaite at the North Pole - even in his daft skirt.

No one wants a part of Nelson except the Europeans - the TV doesn't really want him - UK or US - because he could cause a stink and the American world class fighters don't really want him because he is quite capable of beating them without generating a big purse.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 03 Apr 2005, 10:39

He seems to have a big problem doesn't he? What happened to talks about a fight with enzo? Would that be big enough/risk-less enough to take? Don't see too many other options for the reasons you've all eloquently made

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Apr 2005, 11:00

A fight with Thompson would make sense in terms of box office, Thompson's got a lot of his rep back after his last two wins. both men near the end of the line, both want a payday, surely that's one that, any political considerations aside should be made.

Personally I think Nelson would win easy, he's quite capable of doing what Rothmann did without cocking it up.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 03 Apr 2005, 15:26

I think Johnny should keep his WBO title at all costs. It's his one and only insurance pass to rely on for healthy paydays at his stage of career. With his 12 losses he was always going to be a pariah as 'champion', but even worse, who would want to take on a guy with his style of fighting... SANS belt?

"Hello, is Mr. Fondu there please?"

Johnny knows the boxing business inside out, and even though he may honestly believe he could beat any other cruiser out there just now, I suspect he is fully aware the majority of 'hardcore fans' don't see him as undisputedly #1 in the division. Compare this to Calzaghe or the like, who would no doubt shout you down if you even suggested this.

He should make his money and get out by the end of next year, or even before this Christmas.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 04 Apr 2005, 03:24

Manos de Oro wrote:I think Johnny should keep his WBO title at all costs. It's his one and only insurance pass to rely on for healthy paydays at his stage of career. With his 12 losses he was always going to be a pariah as 'champion', but even worse, who would want to take on a guy with his style of fighting... SANS belt?

"Hello, is Mr. Fondu there please?"

Johnny knows the boxing business inside out, and even though he may honestly believe he could beat any other cruiser out there just now, I suspect he is fully aware the majority of 'hardcore fans' don't see him as undisputedly #1 in the division. Compare this to Calzaghe or the like, who would no doubt shout you down if you even suggested this.

He should make his money and get out by the end of next year, or even before this Christmas.

Quite right!

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 04 Apr 2005, 03:34

stujones wrote:
DavidPayne wrote:£70-100k a defence? Is that reason enough?
Deduct the sanctioning fees (isn't that usually around the 20K) though.

Nelson should make that as a former undefeated WBO champion. If he reliquishes the belt most in the UK will still see him as a champ. Like Barrera, but obviously on a much smaller scale.

However, a few years ago I would have said Yes, Yes, Yes. Now I think he should fight Maccrinelli and retire win lose or draw. I think the ambition for unification and big fights as gone.

I was thinking about Nelson the other day, I'm not convinced about him (to say the least). I did think, why was there never a rematch offered for the three fighters who gave him the most problems as a champion (Sellars, Jones, and Dominguez). I wonder if he deep down knows he was a tad lucky in those three fights.

Thats harsh on Nelson. Particularly as Jones failed a drugs test, Dominguez moved upto Heavyweight - not sure about Sellars.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Apr 2005, 05:47

True David, not meaning that as a criticism just an observation. The Jones fight he was particularly lucky and he didn't know that he had failed a drugs test when he was interviewed by Darke.

Whilst it doesn't look like happening, at least Scott Harrison said he would give Polo a rematch and felt it was the right thing to do. Nelson was more like "I drew, so I've basically won lets move on".

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 04 Apr 2005, 06:12

I know he lost, everyone did.

It was arguably the WORST decision I've ever seen, Dunne v Jacobs, Vanzie v Earl were bad but I think NelsonJones was worst - basically because Nelson was SOOO bad.

He looked 67 years old that night.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Apr 2005, 06:18

DavidPayne wrote:I know he lost, everyone did.

Everybody except team Nelson that is.

Terrible decision, worst than either Vanzie vs Earl fights - I don't think quite as bad as Dunne vs Jacobs, Barnes vs Vincent or the Ampofo vs Armour rematch.

All of these the winner looked on the verge of being pulled out because they were taking a beating.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Apr 2005, 06:55

Oh I'm sure they knew, but what do you expect them to say. I never got to see that fight, but pretty much everyone condemned the verdict.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Apr 2005, 07:48

Well, Richie Woodhall admited that he lost to Cateley. Without saying he knew he lost, Scott Harrison admited that the Polo fight was close and could have gone either way. Scott did say Polo deserved a rematch.

Nelson was proclaiming that it was planned and he was the better man. Certainly didn't say Jones was worthy of the rematch, which he was.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Apr 2005, 08:30

stujones wrote:Well, Richie Woodhall admited that he lost to Cateley. Without saying he knew he lost, Scott Harrison admited that the Polo fight was close and could have gone either way. Scott did say Polo deserved a rematch.

Nelson was proclaiming that it was planned and he was the better man. Certainly didn't say Jones was worthy of the rematch, which he was.

Sure, ok, so when is the Harrison v Polo rematch taking place? I don't think that was anything more than lip service personally.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Apr 2005, 09:25

Well, I never said the fight was going to happen, lip service or not it was said. Nelson looked foolish when he dismissed a Jones rematch.

Polo has now got Marquez instead and so is probably getting more money now for his next fight. Who knows if a rematch was ever negotiated.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 04 Apr 2005, 11:04

According to those who seen it Giullermo Jones got totally ripped off again against Steve Cunningham on the Mormeck undercard. It keeps happening to him. It was a terrible decision apparently.

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 04 Apr 2005, 14:11

Thught it might have been a dodgy decision, just by looking at the scores. 97-93, 96-94 Cunningham and 97-93 Jones. Just seemed a bit dubious to me

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 04 Apr 2005, 14:25

DavidPayne wrote:
stujones wrote:
DavidPayne wrote:£70-100k a defence? Is that reason enough?
Deduct the sanctioning fees (isn't that usually around the 20K) though.

Nelson should make that as a former undefeated WBO champion. If he reliquishes the belt most in the UK will still see him as a champ. Like Barrera, but obviously on a much smaller scale.

However, a few years ago I would have said Yes, Yes, Yes. Now I think he should fight Maccrinelli and retire win lose or draw. I think the ambition for unification and big fights as gone.

I was thinking about Nelson the other day, I'm not convinced about him (to say the least). I did think, why was there never a rematch offered for the three fighters who gave him the most problems as a champion (Sellars, Jones, and Dominguez). I wonder if he deep down knows he was a tad lucky in those three fights.
Thats harsh on Nelson. Particularly as Jones failed a drugs test, Dominguez moved upto Heavyweight - not sure about Sellars.

He failed a drug test for a diuretic didnt he? Hardly performance enhancing so cant cut Nelson any slack on that front.