BoxRec

rd350lc wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 18:30

MightyWarrior wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 18:09 I really hope he is, massively exciting, but on the balance of things, I don’t think he’ll do better than Lennox did, because that was top tier level stuff. Better than AJ? maybe .. He’s got everything he needs and his chin looks good enough, as far as we can tell - No alarm bells.

Has anyone actually hit him flush yet ?

The level of opponents, so far, have been poor to abysmal. Understandable, given his pro experience but he is a talented fighter and way above the current level they have been pitching him with. Doubt he has learned anything new, so far, let alone get hit back.

Someone will crack him back, at some point and he looks sturdy enough, but time will tell.

Personally, wouldn't put him up near Lewis, as a young HW coming up, in terms of levels. That said, an exciting talent. Will be an interesting watch.

never boxed seniors either, getting through unscathed in jrs isnt quite the same thing

he does look really good though, im excited, but so much more to learn about him

Controversial wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:09

JC wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 12:50 Two key questions

Are we counting Lennox as British?

Lewis was born in the UK, Itauma wasn't.

So where where you’re born decides your identity?

Culture, DNA, heritage, upbringing etc are irrelevant then? So according to you a child born, say in Cyprus, to 2 British parents who were on holiday there or maybe working there, who left at 6 months old and has never been back to Cyprus since, and grew up in UK is a Cypriot?

What a bizarre and simplistic criterion. It’s never that simple. Especially in the modern world.

Itauma was born to in Slovakia to Slovakian and Nigerian parents but brought up largely in the UK. I imagine he feels attachment to all 3 countries. Or are you suggesting he’s purely Slovakian?

As to the thread question, surely it’s too early to tell? Ask us in 10 years

poor thread

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 20:19

Controversial wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:09

JC wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 12:50 Two key questions

Are we counting Lennox as British?

Lewis was born in the UK, Itauma wasn't.

So where where you’re born decides your identity?

Culture, DNA, heritage, upbringing etc are irrelevant then? So according to you a child born, say in Cyprus, to 2 British parents who were on holiday there or maybe working there, who left at 6 months old and has never been back to Cyprus since, and grew up in UK is a Cypriot?

What a bizarre and simplistic criterion. It’s never that simple. Especially in the modern world.

Itauma was born to in Slovakia to Slovakian and Nigerian parents but brought up largely in the UK. I imagine he feels attachment to all 3 countries. Or are you suggesting he’s purely Slovakian?

That’s not what I meant at all. I was just pointing out the flaw in that question as technically speaking Lewis was born here and Itouma wasn’t but it was Lewis who the question was being asked if he was British. I never said Itouma wasn’t, I class both as British if that’s what they chose to be. Plenty of footballers are born in the UK but play for other countries because their parents are from there and rightly so they have that choice. Haaland was born in Leeds but chose to play for Norway unfortunately for us lol.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 22:10 poor thread

It's not at all. Jimmy is an experienced guy who has seen a lot of prospects and is making a big call very early, it'll be interesting to see what happens. I've thought for a while Moses is special, he has something about him that's I've never seen in a fighter that young. I met him in Poland when he was 18, he seemed about 30 with his relaxed manner and was very physically imposing.

I was born in Wakefield and grew up there for 20 years, before moving to Norway for the chance of a better life.

I've lived in Norway for 32 years now, have a Norwegian passport (as well as an Irish and a British passport) but I don't feel in any way Norwegian, not even slightly.

Where you grew up and went to school forms most of your identity. Lewis came to England when he was about 13 I think, so he'll definitely feel Canadian to some extent I would have thought

forcefraser wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 03:57
Lewis came to England when he was about 13 I think, so he'll definitely feel Canadian to some extent I would have thought

Lennox was born in London and moved to Canada when he was 12.

Yep, as Controversial clarifies, it was the other way around.

Lewis claimed that when he was at school in Canada the other children used to take the Mickey our of his accent

Controversial wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 04:34

forcefraser wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 03:57
Lewis came to England when he was about 13 I think, so he'll definitely feel Canadian to some extent I would have thought

Lennox was born in London and moved to Canada when he was 12.

Ah, of course. That makes a big difference. The first 12 years in the UK will have left an impression for sure.

I think what gets people's backs up is that he represented Canada at the Olympics and then started his professional career in the UK.

I like Lennox, cool guy and a hell of a fighter

Controversial wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 01:19

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 20:19

Controversial wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:09

Lewis was born in the UK, Itauma wasn't.

So where where you’re born decides your identity?

Culture, DNA, heritage, upbringing etc are irrelevant then? So according to you a child born, say in Cyprus, to 2 British parents who were on holiday there or maybe working there, who left at 6 months old and has never been back to Cyprus since, and grew up in UK is a Cypriot?

What a bizarre and simplistic criterion. It’s never that simple. Especially in the modern world.

Itauma was born to in Slovakia to Slovakian and Nigerian parents but brought up largely in the UK. I imagine he feels attachment to all 3 countries. Or are you suggesting he’s purely Slovakian?

That’s not what I meant at all. I was just pointing out the flaw in that question as technically speaking Lewis was born here and Itouma wasn’t but it was Lewis who the question was being asked if he was British. I never said Itouma wasn’t, I class both as British if that’s what they chose to be. Plenty of footballers are born in the UK but play for other countries because their parents are from there and rightly so they have that choice. Haaland was born in Leeds but chose to play for Norway unfortunately for us lol.

I mean you couldn’t really expect Haaland to want to play for England LMAO his dad was just playing here at the time. You can barely get more ‘Norwegian’ than him (whatever that means these days ).

Lewis used to consider himself Canadian, Jamaican, British ‘a global citizen’… I think once stated he felt more Jamaican due to ethnicity, even though I’m not sure he ever lived there.

As to Itauma - I think he has a UK passport, had been here since he was 4. He wear three flags on his shorts I think - Slovakia, Nigeria and Uk.

It’s up to him what he identifies himself as. There are no hard and fast rules these days! Since I was in my twenties, especially in boxing as it’s in individual sport, I support the boxer as an individual. I don’t get all excited because one is ‘British’. Same with UFC and Tennis. I don’t really care much about football or rugby or other team sports…..

PS isn’t Mikel Kessler’s mother English?

Lennox presents as Jamaican.

About time he had a fight

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 07:07

Controversial wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 01:19

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 20:19

So where where you’re born decides your identity?

Culture, DNA, heritage, upbringing etc are irrelevant then? So according to you a child born, say in Cyprus, to 2 British parents who were on holiday there or maybe working there, who left at 6 months old and has never been back to Cyprus since, and grew up in UK is a Cypriot?

What a bizarre and simplistic criterion. It’s never that simple. Especially in the modern world.

Itauma was born to in Slovakia to Slovakian and Nigerian parents but brought up largely in the UK. I imagine he feels attachment to all 3 countries. Or are you suggesting he’s purely Slovakian?

That’s not what I meant at all. I was just pointing out the flaw in that question as technically speaking Lewis was born here and Itouma wasn’t but it was Lewis who the question was being asked if he was British. I never said Itouma wasn’t, I class both as British if that’s what they chose to be. Plenty of footballers are born in the UK but play for other countries because their parents are from there and rightly so they have that choice. Haaland was born in Leeds but chose to play for Norway unfortunately for us lol.

I mean you couldn’t really expect Haaland to want to play for England LMAO his dad was just playing here at the time. You can barely get more ‘Norwegian’ than him (whatever that means these days ).

Lewis used to consider himself Canadian, Jamaican, British ‘a global citizen’… I think once stated he felt more Jamaican due to ethnicity, even though I’m not sure he ever lived there.

As to Itauma - I think he has a UK passport, had been here since he was 4. He wear three flags on his shorts I think - Slovakia, Nigeria and Uk.

It’s up to him what he identifies himself as. There are no hard and fast rules these days! Since I was in my twenties, especially in boxing as it’s in individual sport, I support the boxer as an individual. I don’t get all excited because one is ‘British’. Same with UFC and Tennis. I don’t really care much about football or rugby or other team sports…..

PS isn’t Mikel Kessler’s mother English?

I never said either of them weren’t British, I just pointed out where each one was born. Haaland had the option to play for England but he chose not to. Makes no odds to me what country they chose to represent.

forcefraser wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 15:36 Lewis fought Mason in his 15th fight. His first real step up. Moses has time.

.looks a real talent but he needs a hard distance fight against a guy who comes to win to show if he has the knackers when it gets hard down the stretch.

A bit like a Mercer for Lewis, but maybe not that brutal. The Mercer fight showed the doubters that Lewis was for real and had plenty of cajones

Agree partially with that - yes Moses has time so ultimately I agree.

Lewis was European Champion going into the Mason fight - so whilst Mason was a big step up - I think Lewis' opponents prior to Mason were probably better a tad better. Had the English title been around in the early Lewis era - then I think guys like Quarless were on that level and probably above what Moses has been fighting(with the exception of McKean and possibly Wach - particularly of a few years ago).

But yeah - the step up for Lewis, which he passed with flying colour would have been comparable to having Moses going from McKean to probably someone like Bakole or maybe even Kabayel next. Mason was, whether you agree or not, not just considered a decent "british level" fighter, but a genuine high top ten ranked guy. I think Mason was more highly considered on the world stage than even Wardley is now, let alone faded versions of Joyce, White and Chisora.

The other thing is, I think the world needs reminded that aside from 1 ATG legendary cruiserweight and possibly another great cruiserweight CONSIDERING moving up - the division now is absolutely cack. How is Itauma going to get the wins needed to cement himself above the likes of Lewis. The supposed "dark horse" of the devision has just been decimated in 2 rounds and we are saying "aww bless, I'm sure he'll come again and its not affected his career" - hell 30+ years ago a fighter came in terrible shape defending his world title, got absolutely ridiculed and put straight to the back of a very long queue". Yes, he could put himself above Joshua, Fury and Haye in the reckoning and even maybe have a Wlad Klitschko esque reign.... in many ways, as the popular (but a bit silly) phrase goes - Wlad "completed" boxing - aside from fighting his own freaking brother. 20+ title defences, unified the division - there isn't one fighter out there (before Fury) that we can really think "oh Wlad needs to fight him" - as either they'd been exposed previously or his brother handling them. Likewise there wasn't really a title defense (beside a couple of mandatories) that we thought were not deserving of a title shot. Wlad pretty much beat (or his brother) every viable challenger of his generation - yet Wlad will never enter the debate for the #1 Heavyweight of all time. Perhaps he is still a little low in the consideration, but I would struggle to see someone make a case for him even being in the low part of the top 10 (at best)..... yet Lewis, who is British is firmly in the upper part of the top 10 - so I think it is going to be hard to make a case for Itauma going infront of Lewis unless some big changes happen in the division.

I don't think it is rose tinded glasses when I think that Golota, Mavrovic, Akinwande, Tua, Holyfield (99) - beat any heavyweight not named Usyk in the current division.

Didn't mean to take the thread off topic.

I just meant that since, as a boxer, Lewis was a product of the Canadian amateur system, if I was Canadian I'd think there was a better claim to ranking him as a Canadian HW.

Whereas Itauma obvs learned his trade here.

Will this poll be the worst ever Boxrec thread?

JC wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:25

Controversial wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:09

JC wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 12:50 Two key questions

Are we counting Lennox as British?

Lewis was born in the UK, Itauma wasn't.

I'm definitely not questioning Lewis's right to be British.

But I always think where they learned to box is key in who has the best claim on a fighter.

So, while Lennox fought as a British fighter, in my mind Canada annoyingly have a better claim.

In the same way I think of Honeygahn and Whyte as a British boxers despite them being born in Jamacia.

I realise I might be in the minority looking at it that way.

My own view is that it's up to the fighters. Lewis considers himself British, Canadian and Jamaican so that's what he is.

If Moses thinks of himself as British, Slovenian & Nigerian then that's what he is.

Who/when is Moses fighting next? Is he going to be stepped up soon?

Billy Tully wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 11:09 Will this poll be the worst ever Boxrec thread?

Maybe, or the best. Let's give it a few years.

Is he already the best Slovenian heavy ever?

Coco wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 13:35 Is he already the best Slovenian heavy ever?

Slovakian, yes.

this guy is boxrec's top slovakian hw ever, very high bar there (tbf looks like he was handy in the ams as a middle)

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/293171

Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:28

stevec@france wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:22 premature to even bother thinking about

Depends on what your interests are, I suppose. Mine is heavyweight boxing. We've not had a good heavyweight turn pro since Fury, and that was 16 years ago. I think that given my age, Itauma will be the last good British heavyweight whose career I'll get to follow (if I'm lucky). No other Brit can handle him in the gym already and he is barely 20. Why not think about how good he might be?

You do realize Daniel Dubios is a current world champion?

Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:28

stevec@france wrote: ↑27 Feb 2025, 13:22 premature to even bother thinking about

Depends on what your interests are, I suppose. Mine is heavyweight boxing. We've not had a good heavyweight turn pro since Fury, and that was 16 years ago. I think that given my age, Itauma will be the last good British heavyweight whose career I'll get to follow (if I'm lucky). No other Brit can handle him in the gym already and he is barely 20. Why not think about how good he might be?

There's another to keep your eye on turning pro very soon...