BoxRec

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025, 11:34

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025, 06:36

elmersalsa wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025, 19:00

No, he didn't signed.

He signed. His choice. Live with it.

No, he didn't. Do your research.

I've done my research and I also know the law. A binding final fight contract can only be signed by the boxer. On the contract it had Duran's name and the signature next to it was, drum roll please, Roberto Duran's.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025, 14:44

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025, 11:34

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025, 06:36

He signed. His choice. Live with it.

No, he didn't. Do your research.

I've done my research and I also know the law. A binding final fight contract can only be signed by the boxer. On the contract it had Duran's name and the signature next to it was, drum roll please, Roberto Duran's.

Goose 5 gave you the answer the last time we debated who could or couldn't sign. That's righteousness. You could not even do the search. Why? Because it didn't fit your narrative.

Carlos Eleta signed the contract in that room with Mike Trainer, Sugar Ray Leonard's manager, and Don King, Roberto Duran's promoter since 1975. It's documented.

Why Duran was not in the negotiation table? Because it was a raw deal that were putting on him.

Never in the history of boxing, a manager has ever flown to another country and offered the other rival manager a hefty amount of money for a fight rematch.

That's what happened! It was as EVIL and WICKED at the same time.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 13:27 Goose 5 gave you the answer the last time we debated who could or couldn't sign.

Was Goose 5 head of the Louisiana State Athletic Commission in 1980?

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 13:59

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 13:27 Goose 5 gave you the answer the last time we debated who could or couldn't sign.

Was Goose 5 head of the Louisiana State Athletic Commission in 1980?

He showed you in a thread that Carlos Eleta could sign Roberto Duran's contract. Don't act stupid on this one. Remember?

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:15

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 13:59

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 13:27 Goose 5 gave you the answer the last time we debated who could or couldn't sign.

Was Goose 5 head of the Louisiana State Athletic Commission in 1980?

He showed you in a thread that Carlos Eleta could sign Roberto Duran's contract. Don't act stupid on this one. Remember?

I remember the post, but it was 100% incorrect.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:16

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:15

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 13:59

Was Goose 5 head of the Louisiana State Athletic Commission in 1980?

He showed you in a thread that Carlos Eleta could sign Roberto Duran's contract. Don't act stupid on this one. Remember?

I remember the post, but it was 100% incorrect.

Why was incorrect? The information was right clear. Don't act like you don't know, please! Do not act like if you don't know. That's wicked and evil!

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:41

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:16

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:15

He showed you in a thread that Carlos Eleta could sign Roberto Duran's contract. Don't act stupid on this one. Remember?

I remember the post, but it was 100% incorrect.

Why was incorrect? The information was right clear. Don't act like you don't know, please! Do not act like if you don't know. That's wicked and evil!

Why was it incorrect? Because it wasn't true. It was a lie. You believe Goose is telling the truth because it supports your argument. He thought Duran's POA (Power of Attorney) could sign a fight contract and that would be legally binding. That is not how POA works. I understand that Duran is your boy, but you are being wholly naive on this matter.

Whatever reason he had for quitting, the thing that’s strange in my opinion is why take that route?
I would find it way better personally to take the beating and get knocked out rather than do what he did.
I mean the first time you walk in a gym, some old trainer looks you in the eye and tells you there’s no quitting in this deal. You are gonna take the shots and do your best. Spitting out your gumshield and climbing out of the ring is totally unacceptable.
Maybe that’s prehistoric thinking now I dunno.

Not it's not prehistoric thinking at all. And that deservedly should hurt Duran's reputation and is a factor in how high he should be rated. The TKO8 trumps a close 15-round decision win. (elmer himself had Duran winning by only 3 points)

He should have been fined and suspended as well.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:50

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:41

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:16

I remember the post, but it was 100% incorrect.

Why was incorrect? The information was right clear. Don't act like you don't know, please! Do not act like if you don't know. That's wicked and evil!

Why was it incorrect? Because it wasn't true. It was a lie. You believe Goose is telling the truth because it supports your argument. He thought Duran's POA (Power of Attorney) could sign a fight contract and that would be legally binding. That is not how POA works. I understand that Duran is your boy, but you are being wholly naive on this matter.

He showed it to you and me that day. And yes, a manager can sign someone's contract. What is it that can't understand? You're losing the argument, buddy. You have been stubborn as a five year old child.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 18:49

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:50

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:41

Why was incorrect? The information was right clear. Don't act like you don't know, please! Do not act like if you don't know. That's wicked and evil!

Why was it incorrect? Because it wasn't true. It was a lie. You believe Goose is telling the truth because it supports your argument. He thought Duran's POA (Power of Attorney) could sign a fight contract and that would be legally binding. That is not how POA works. I understand that Duran is your boy, but you are being wholly naive on this matter.

He showed it to you and me that day. And yes, a manager can sign someone's contract. What is it that can't understand? You're losing the argument, buddy. You have been stubborn as a five year old child.

1. A POA cannot bind a boxer to a personal-services performance.
2. Athletic-commission rules require the fighter’s own personal signature.
3. Personal medical/risk consents in fight contracts are non-delegable.

Therefore:
A Power of Attorney cannot validly sign a fight contract on behalf of a boxer.

Legally, practically, and regulatorily — it fails every required test.

Would you like some more Elmer? I can give you legal precedents if you like..

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 19:10

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 18:49

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 14:50

Why was it incorrect? Because it wasn't true. It was a lie. You believe Goose is telling the truth because it supports your argument. He thought Duran's POA (Power of Attorney) could sign a fight contract and that would be legally binding. That is not how POA works. I understand that Duran is your boy, but you are being wholly naive on this matter.

He showed it to you and me that day. And yes, a manager can sign someone's contract. What is it that can't understand? You're losing the argument, buddy. You have been stubborn as a five year old child.

1. A POA cannot bind a boxer to a personal-services performance.
2. Athletic-commission rules require the fighter’s own personal signature.
3. Personal medical/risk consents in fight contracts are non-delegable.

Therefore:
A Power of Attorney cannot validly sign a fight contract on behalf of a boxer.

Legally, practically, and regulatorily — it fails every required test.

Would you like some more Elmer? I can give you legal precedents if you like..

Bruh, you lost the damn argument. Carlos Eleta did indeed signed the dotted line. If you claim that it was impossible for him to do that, that shows how WICKED and EVIL Eleta was. He transgressed "your" laws.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 20:30

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 19:10

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 18:49

He showed it to you and me that day. And yes, a manager can sign someone's contract. What is it that can't understand? You're losing the argument, buddy. You have been stubborn as a five year old child.

1. A POA cannot bind a boxer to a personal-services performance.
2. Athletic-commission rules require the fighter’s own personal signature.
3. Personal medical/risk consents in fight contracts are non-delegable.

Therefore:
A Power of Attorney cannot validly sign a fight contract on behalf of a boxer.

Legally, practically, and regulatorily — it fails every required test.

Would you like some more Elmer? I can give you legal precedents if you like..

Bruh, you lost the damn argument. Carlos Eleta did indeed signed the dotted line. If you claim that it was impossible for him to do that, that shows how WICKED and EVIL Eleta was. He transgressed "your" laws.

They're not my laws, they're just the laws and I can prove it. Show me some proof that Eleta signed the contract and not Duran. It should be really to do so. Come on, show me something.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 20:35

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 20:30

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 19:10

1. A POA cannot bind a boxer to a personal-services performance.
2. Athletic-commission rules require the fighter’s own personal signature.
3. Personal medical/risk consents in fight contracts are non-delegable.

Therefore:
A Power of Attorney cannot validly sign a fight contract on behalf of a boxer.

Legally, practically, and regulatorily — it fails every required test.

Would you like some more Elmer? I can give you legal precedents if you like..

Bruh, you lost the damn argument. Carlos Eleta did indeed signed the dotted line. If you claim that it was impossible for him to do that, that shows how WICKED and EVIL Eleta was. He transgressed "your" laws.

They're not my laws, they're just the laws and I can prove it. Show me some proof that Eleta signed the contract and not Duran. It should be really to do so. Come on, show me something.

Goose 5 showed it to you.

And it was a dirty fix. Carlos Eleta was THE RAT of the whole thing. A perfect inside job and a beautiful strategy. If you can't comprehend the fix, I can't do nothing for you. But, Eleta signed the dotted line. Not Duran.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 21:10

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 20:35

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 20:30

Bruh, you lost the damn argument. Carlos Eleta did indeed signed the dotted line. If you claim that it was impossible for him to do that, that shows how WICKED and EVIL Eleta was. He transgressed "your" laws.

They're not my laws, they're just the laws and I can prove it. Show me some proof that Eleta signed the contract and not Duran. It should be really to do so. Come on, show me something.

Goose 5 showed it to you.

And it was a dirty fix. Carlos Eleta was THE RAT of the whole thing. A perfect inside job and a beautiful strategy. If you can't comprehend the fix, I can't do nothing for you. But, Eleta signed the dotted line. Not Duran.

World class silliness.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025, 06:03

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 21:10

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 20:35

They're not my laws, they're just the laws and I can prove it. Show me some proof that Eleta signed the contract and not Duran. It should be really to do so. Come on, show me something.

Goose 5 showed it to you.

And it was a dirty fix. Carlos Eleta was THE RAT of the whole thing. A perfect inside job and a beautiful strategy. If you can't comprehend the fix, I can't do nothing for you. But, Eleta signed the dotted line. Not Duran.

World class silliness.

Maybe I am arguing with Sugar Ray

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 20:35 They're not my laws, they're just the laws and I can prove it. Show me some proof that Eleta signed the contract and not Duran. It should be really to do so. Come on, show me something.

Let me turn that one around, show me some proof he didn't sign. Also show me some proof that it was Duran in the ring with Leonard that night in New Orleans and not Carlos Eleta sporting a toupée.

Expug wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 16:26 Whatever reason he had for quitting, the thing that’s strange in my opinion is why take that route?
I would find it way better personally to take the beating and get knocked out rather than do what he did.
I mean the first time you walk in a gym, some old trainer looks you in the eye and tells you there’s no quitting in this deal. You are gonna take the shots and do your best. Spitting out your gumshield and climbing out of the ring is totally unacceptable.
Maybe that’s prehistoric thinking now I dunno.

The article talked about this... Duran didn't really understand what he'd done. It was only the next day when it sort of sunk in.

He had cut corners in his preapration and made weight with the use of laxatives. He realised he'd messed up once he was in the ring. He knew he wasnt ready and thought let's just give this one away and train hard for the third fight. But there really was no way back for him...well, there would be eventually, but he had to look inside himself and find his pride again. It would take many years.

Ezzard wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025, 11:47

Expug wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 16:26 Whatever reason he had for quitting, the thing that’s strange in my opinion is why take that route?
I would find it way better personally to take the beating and get knocked out rather than do what he did.
I mean the first time you walk in a gym, some old trainer looks you in the eye and tells you there’s no quitting in this deal. You are gonna take the shots and do your best. Spitting out your gumshield and climbing out of the ring is totally unacceptable.
Maybe that’s prehistoric thinking now I dunno.

The article talked about this... Duran didn't really understand what he'd done. It was only the next day when it sort of sunk in.

He had cut corners in his preapration and made weight with the use of laxatives. He realised he'd messed up once he was in the ring. He knew he wasnt ready and thought let's just give this one away and train hard for the third fight. But there really was no way back for him...well, there would be eventually, but he had to look inside himself and find his pride again. It would take many years.

That makes sense. It sounds like that could definitely be the case.
Duran seemed like a guy who could be very impulsive.

Also, I remember reading articles about Duran when he was a Lightweight that said he sometimes ballooned up to 180 between fights. Considering how often he fought at 135 that's pretty shocking, but stories of Duran absolutely stuffing himself, and sightings of him by fans who said "no way that little fat guy is him" when it was, appear to confirm that.

hhaehre wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025, 20:16

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 20:35 They're not my laws, they're just the laws and I can prove it. Show me some proof that Eleta signed the contract and not Duran. It should be really to do so. Come on, show me something.

Let me turn that one around, show me some proof he didn't sign. Also show me some proof that it was Duran in the ring with Leonard that night in New Orleans and not Carlos Eleta sporting a toupée.

You could be on to something there.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025, 16:24

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025, 06:03

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025, 21:10
Goose 5 showed it to you.

And it was a dirty fix. Carlos Eleta was THE RAT of the whole thing. A perfect inside job and a beautiful strategy. If you can't comprehend the fix, I can't do nothing for you. But, Eleta signed the dotted line. Not Duran.

World class silliness.

Maybe I am arguing with Sugar Ray

I know you're not Duran, because even he wouldn't up some of the lies you spout about him.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025, 15:16

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025, 16:24

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025, 06:03

World class silliness.

Maybe I am arguing with Sugar Ray

I know you're not Duran, because even he wouldn't up some of the lies you spout about him.

What really happened is Duran didn't prepare as well as he had the first time. Was getting outboxed and embarrassed, and decided to quit, which in turn made the whole thing infinitely more embarrassing for him.

Not even sure if Duran really didn't train as hard or if that's just his excuse.

Either way. We've beaten this subject to death in another thread recently I'm pretty sure so no need to beating that dead horse that We've already pounded into dust.

cfang wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025, 13:31 Is there any other comparable fight? At world championship level anyway?

Maybe McCall's crying fit and mental breakdown in the Lewis rematch? That's one of the only other bizarre quit jobs I can think of.