BoxRec

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Feb 2026, 14:08 Look at this folks!



Stanley Ketchel vs Billy Papke (IV)

And with that style he supposed to beat the great Roberto Duran?

Robbie Sims beat Duran and he wasn't a legendary HOF'er and one of the biggest punchers in the history of the game.

If Duran was that amazing at 160, how did Robbie Simms beat him?

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 07:58

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Feb 2026, 14:08 Look at this folks!



Stanley Ketchel vs Billy Papke (IV)

And with that style he supposed to beat the great Roberto Duran?

Robbie Sims beat Duran and he wasn't a legendary HOF'er and one of the biggest punchers in the history of the game.

If Duran was that amazing at 160, how did Robbie Simms beat him?

Any fighter could lose at any given day. Robbie Sims would also whup the great Stanley Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Now you believe that a guy like Ketchel beats Sims, too?

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 17:46

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 07:58

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Feb 2026, 14:08 Look at this folks!



Stanley Ketchel vs Billy Papke (IV)

And with that style he supposed to beat the great Roberto Duran?

Robbie Sims beat Duran and he wasn't a legendary HOF'er and one of the biggest punchers in the history of the game.

If Duran was that amazing at 160, how did Robbie Simms beat him?

Any fighter could lose at any given day. Robbie Sims would also whup the great Stanley Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Now you believe that a guy like Ketchel beats Sims, too?

You said it yourself in your last post. Any fighter could lose at any given day. So yes, Ketchel beats Simms.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 18:06

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 17:46

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 07:58

Robbie Sims beat Duran and he wasn't a legendary HOF'er and one of the biggest punchers in the history of the game.

If Duran was that amazing at 160, how did Robbie Simms beat him?

Any fighter could lose at any given day. Robbie Sims would also whup the great Stanley Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Now you believe that a guy like Ketchel beats Sims, too?

You said it yourself in your last post. Any fighter could lose at any given day. So yes, Ketchel beats Simms.

Whatever, bruh. I don't see that happening. Stanley Ketchel would be too primitive for Robbie Sims or Roberto Duran. Both of them beat Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday. End of story.

Stanley Ketchel would be on a lot of people's All Time Top 10 list for the Middleweight division. Robbie Sims wouldn't be on anybody's Top 40.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 21:16

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 18:06

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 17:46
Any fighter could lose at any given day. Robbie Sims would also whup the great Stanley Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Now you believe that a guy like Ketchel beats Sims, too?

You said it yourself in your last post. Any fighter could lose at any given day. So yes, Ketchel beats Simms.

Whatever, bruh. I don't see that happening. Stanley Ketchel would be too primitive for Robbie Sims or Roberto Duran. Both of them beat Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday. End of story.

What about Pat Lawlor? Would he also beat Ketchel?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 01:29 Stanley Ketchel would be on a lot of people's All Time Top 10 list for the Middleweight division. Robbie Sims wouldn't be on anybody's Top 40.

There was an interesting article in The Ring magazine and I think it was from when Hagler was on the throne. It compared their all-time Middleweight ratings through the years. From memory, Ketchel was still #1 until the 60's. If I ever find the article, I'll post it.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 07:39

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 21:16

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 18:06

You said it yourself in your last post. Any fighter could lose at any given day. So yes, Ketchel beats Simms.

Whatever, bruh. I don't see that happening. Stanley Ketchel would be too primitive for Robbie Sims or Roberto Duran. Both of them beat Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday. End of story.

What about Pat Lawlor? Would he also beat Ketchel?

I don't know about that one. Pat Lawlor wasn't any good to begin with.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 12:11

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 07:39

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 21:16
Whatever, bruh. I don't see that happening. Stanley Ketchel would be too primitive for Robbie Sims or Roberto Duran. Both of them beat Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday. End of story.

What about Pat Lawlor? Would he also beat Ketchel?

I don't know about that one. Pat Lawlor wasn't any good to begin with.

He made Duran quit like petulant ginger step kid. Ketchel never quit like Duran.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 12:31

elmersalsa wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 12:11

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 07:39

What about Pat Lawlor? Would he also beat Ketchel?

I don't know about that one. Pat Lawlor wasn't any good to begin with.

He made Duran quit like petulant ginger step kid. Ketchel never quit like Duran.

Today is the 29th Anniversary of Roberto Duran's 1st loss to Jorge Castro by the way. A historic day in Boxing.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 21:16

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 18:06

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Feb 2026, 17:46
Any fighter could lose at any given day. Robbie Sims would also whup the great Stanley Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Now you believe that a guy like Ketchel beats Sims, too?

You said it yourself in your last post. Any fighter could lose at any given day. So yes, Ketchel beats Simms.

Whatever, bruh. I don't see that happening. Stanley Ketchel would be too primitive for Robbie Sims or Roberto Duran. Both of them beat Ketchel every day of the week and twice on Sunday. End of story.

This is the fourth time you've "ended the story." Why aren't people ending it?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 17:25

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 12:31

elmersalsa wrote: ↑15 Feb 2026, 12:11
I don't know about that one. Pat Lawlor wasn't any good to begin with.

He made Duran quit like petulant ginger step kid. Ketchel never quit like Duran.

Today is the 29th Anniversary of Roberto Duran's 1st loss to Jorge Castro by the way. A historic day in Boxing.

Castro v Ketchel would have been a good fight. At 160 Castro's chin couldn't be dented with a hammer and he could punch and would love Ketchel's style.

Castro definitely had a rock hard chin for sure.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑13 Feb 2026, 13:48

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Feb 2026, 13:45

gilgamesh wrote: ↑13 Feb 2026, 13:29

Why don't you go see if your unskilled ass can win a Middleweight Championship.

My unskilled ass kick yours. I bet you that. Stanley Ketchel beat Roberto Duran? Don't make a fool of yourself, bruh. Please!

Duran was in another level.

Ketchel beat Duran.

My point wasn't that I can beat you up. I couldn't care less if I could or couldn't. My point was nobody that ever became a World Champion in Boxing is unskilled. Especially one that many still called "The Greatest Middleweight of All Time" long after his death.

It seems that You might be confusing Stanley Ketchel with Harry Greb..?
Yes, Greb is still often referred to as The All Time G.o.a.t of Middleweights, and very understandably so.
I'd definitely have Greb in at least the Top 5 ATG list at MW.
With Ketchel, I Don't even think he makes the 10 spot on the top 10 of MW's.
Don't get me wrong, I think Ketchel was pretty amazing in his own right, but as Elmer stated, it's basically a levels thing.
The MW version of Duran, from The November 1983 Hagler bout would've outboxed Ketchel pretty thoroughly, en route to an 11-4 type of UD win.

Ketchel versus Tony Sibson, Vito Anterfermo, Alan Minter, Bobby Czyz, Those kinda guys. They'd all be pretty much 50-50 I'm thinking.
Also, I'd even slightly favor the likes of Mustafa Hamsho over Ketchel, as much as I think Ketchel was a great middleweight of his era.
I just think that once the names are the ones with extra skill then Ketchel is likely going to get outboxed.
Stanley Ketchel vs Gene Fullmer would be a Great thrilling bout also. I favor Fullmer, but also acknowledge that Ketchell would've had a legit punchers chance versus Fullmer, because of Gene's Love for Brawling it out.
Guys like Duran and Hamsho though, yeah, they'd be a bit too tricky for Stanley.

No I'm not confusing Ketchel with Greb. When Nat Fleischer passed his all time greatest Middleweights list read like this.

Ketchel often appears on all time Middleweight lists. Ring Magazine had him listed at #7 all time while Lamotta was #6. Nat Fleischer the Founder of the Magazine ranked Ketchel 2nd only to Greb.

Now granted Fleischer passed before seeing many fighters of the modern era, but if a guy was that good in his era, it's hard to imagine he'd be blown out by a fellow that is the naturally smaller man.

There's not a lot to go off of with Ketchel other than the written word, but he is written of with very high regard.