BoxRec

J wrote:

no just very left mate thats ok but....
you are talking shit mate.
they didnt just close the pits down like that, it was being scaled down since the late 60's.
That was the way it was reported sure, but it was a wound down cos its uneconomical to get the coal out of the ground mate, compared to importing it from places like Poland. The same will happen with the oil industry once it becomes time but that wont be a burden on the state cos it is already private business.

It was also linked to the fall of heavy industry in this country, steelworks shipyards and manfacturing, and the rise in concern of pollution. Whether you like ti or not it was toime to make a shift and there is no easy way of doing that.

really if you are going to use examples you should be more informed mate, my old man worked for British Coal mate though this whole period if you want some more info on it let me know.

Mmmmm.

Now, do I have time for this.

If you honestly believe shutting pits had anything to do with concerns over the environment under a Tory government you're delusional J.

If you honestly believe shutting pits had anything to do with comparative costs of importing coal then you're also delusional. Importing cheap coal wasn't the reason for shutting pits, it was what allowed her to do it.

Shutting pits had three main purposes.

1) Breaking the Union movement by targetting the Miners (the heartbeat and soul of the 20th century Union system). This served to scare the ENTIRE workforce into accepting poor conditions, poor job security, increased hours and returned TOO much power to the employer. We had 4million unemployed to keep the fear factor amongst the masses. We were told a minimum wage would break the economy and the Tories were still saying that when introduced in the late 90's. Thats because they want to keep the C2, D demographics under the heal and afford greater profitability to the owners, rewarding the rich.
2) Revenge for the election loss in the early seventies, a fact underlined by Cecil Parkinson when asked how he felt about the miners losing their homes in 1985. 'They didn't worry about us in 1973!'
3) Providing the impetus to greater demand for gas and electric power that was about to be or had been privatised and had non-executive board members who were actually part of the conservative establishment. Yep, the people who helped decide to shut pits benefitted from their demise from fat-cat pay outs to their now in-demand British Gas and Electricity company's.

Did you know Thatcher used troops, dressed in polic uniforms in the strike, pickets told of seeing bus loads of squaddies getting changed.

Did you know Thatcher stockpiled coal knowing she was going to instigate a strike?

Did you know Budge, who bought the remnants of the industry, said he'd only buy British Coal if she stripped it naked.

Did you know the Tories moved the goal post on efficiency and profitability targets on the miners repeatedly, and the miners KEPT meeting them AND she still shut pits.

Did you know the coal she imported from Germany was subsidised by the EU and German government, the coal from Columbia dug by children and the coal from SOuth Africa when still operating under Aparthied......

I could go on and on.......

Shutting pits that 100 years of coal in them was a crime, making thousands of men redundant and then paying them to go to job-clun with no self-respect was a crime.

Thatcher was a crime. History WILL NOT remember her well.

Crumbling schools, crumbling economy, crumbling industry, riots, controversy, derelict NHS, sold off every industry, took the oil money and gave tax cuts to the rich, over saw more business failures than anyone else in history, oversaw more reposessions than ever before.

Seems like we're singing from the same hymnsheet Dave, that's how I've always seen it.

I will sum up my opinion of Margaret Thatcher thus.

If I ever see her face to face, I will kick her squarely in the pudendum.

Just found this....is that our own MrMcNeilly with that comment I wonder?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3680427.stm

DavidPayne wrote:

J wrote:

no just very left mate thats ok but....
you are talking shit mate.
they didnt just close the pits down like that, it was being scaled down since the late 60's.
That was the way it was reported sure, but it was a wound down cos its uneconomical to get the coal out of the ground mate, compared to importing it from places like Poland. The same will happen with the oil industry once it becomes time but that wont be a burden on the state cos it is already private business.

It was also linked to the fall of heavy industry in this country, steelworks shipyards and manfacturing, and the rise in concern of pollution. Whether you like ti or not it was toime to make a shift and there is no easy way of doing that.

really if you are going to use examples you should be more informed mate, my old man worked for British Coal mate though this whole period if you want some more info on it let me know.

Mmmmm.

Now, do I have time for this.

If you honestly believe shutting pits had anything to do with concerns over the environment under a Tory government you're delusional J.

If you honestly believe shutting pits had anything to do with comparative costs of importing coal then you're also delusional. Importing cheap coal wasn't the reason for shutting pits, it was what allowed her to do it.

Shutting pits had three main purposes.

1) Breaking the Union movement by targetting the Miners (the heartbeat and soul of the 20th century Union system). This served to scare the ENTIRE workforce into accepting poor conditions, poor job security, increased hours and returned TOO much power to the employer. We had 4million unemployed to keep the fear factor amongst the masses. We were told a minimum wage would break the economy and the Tories were still saying that when introduced in the late 90's. Thats because they want to keep the C2, D demographics under the heal and afford greater profitability to the owners, rewarding the rich.
2) Revenge for the election loss in the early seventies, a fact underlined by Cecil Parkinson when asked how he felt about the miners losing their homes in 1985. 'They didn't worry about us in 1973!'
3) Providing the impetus to greater demand for gas and electric power that was about to be or had been privatised and had non-executive board members who were actually part of the conservative establishment. Yep, the people who helped decide to shut pits benefitted from their demise from fat-cat pay outs to their now in-demand British Gas and Electricity company's.

Did you know Thatcher used troops, dressed in polic uniforms in the strike, pickets told of seeing bus loads of squaddies getting changed.

Did you know Thatcher stockpiled coal knowing she was going to instigate a strike?

Did you know Budge, who bought the remnants of the industry, said he'd only buy British Coal if she stripped it naked.

Did you know the Tories moved the goal post on efficiency and profitability targets on the miners repeatedly, and the miners KEPT meeting them AND she still shut pits.

Did you know the coal she imported from Germany was subsidised by the EU and German government, the coal from Columbia dug by children and the coal from SOuth Africa when still operating under Aparthied......

I could go on and on.......

Shutting pits that 100 years of coal in them was a crime, making thousands of men redundant and then paying them to go to job-clun with no self-respect was a crime.

Thatcher was a crime. History WILL NOT remember her well.

Crumbling schools, crumbling economy, crumbling industry, riots, controversy, derelict NHS, sold off every industry, took the oil money and gave tax cuts to the rich, over saw more business failures than anyone else in history, oversaw more reposessions than ever before.

As a lad from London, by way of Rotherham. WELL SAID

There is a very special little bit of hell all ready for this bitch

Slapsie

When Thatcher dies I will dance a jig like England have won the World Cup and the Ashes and Forest are due to play AC Milan at the new Wembley for the Champions League.

She was evil personified.

Once I start I cannot stop.....evil bitch.

How about using British forces to look for her son, lost in a 'rally' - now when this was reported we assumed it was a 'car' rally. It was probably a rally to rally support for over throwing the local tin=pot government and rob all their minerals.

Thatcher......god, I cant say enough. Her greatest claim to fame is the Falklands War and closing British Industry.

Great result.

Oh that I had been in the tank corp on that day, they'd have been putting out her bouffant and wrapping her charred corpse in a bodybag. One click of a firing button, and WHOOOMP!

I am not one to be filled with hatred for people, but she really was a fornicator. Her whole manner was 'well you can't make an omellette without breaking a few eggs.' However, to satisfy her delusions of grandeur, the eggs that got busted were a whole generation of people from certian parts of the country. Her refusal to condemn apartheid said it all, power and money before principles. Now her son is continuing that family tradition.

J wrote:thewy may well have done but they also may well have waited for UN blessing which is frankly what should have happened.

UN would never have blessed it even though Mr S H had broken 18 UN resolutions over a number of years.

Hopefully the UN will disappear or change dramatically as they are all talk and no action.

OK Blair lied which he shouldn't have done although he didn't need to IMHO. I think the British public would have supported him anyway though not so sure they would right now.

DavidPayne wrote:
Thatcher......god, I cant say enough. Her greatest claim to fame is ... closing British Industry.

Great result.

I would rather have any industry privatised (provided there is healthy competition) than run by the government on tax payers money.

So yes a good result.

What about having something you partly owned being taken away from you and sold to a few who could afford it. And the proceeds were spent facilitating tax cuts for the rich?

Still a result?

Thatcher's knobhead of a son is still up to no good and will go and live in the USA for the rest of his days so that he doesn't get whacked. Mrs T is extremely lucky to have not been blown to bits. Just shows how much they are despised.

The Tories of today can't be trusted and their shambles of a party has very few worthwhile characters. Blair and Co have a lot to answer for but since Labour have been in power I have always had a job and home that belongs to me, and most of my friends and family and also doing quite well for themselves.

I see no need "for a change" just because of the war and Brown will probably get ther top job in a couple of years. Until the Tories get their act together and appoint a leader who is worthy of being PM they just don't deserve to get back into power.

As for the Lib Dems, christ I can't even imagine the mess they would make.

OK not the most popular decision.

However I do prefer privatisation to government running industry even if it is done in a way which I don't like (like this). The end result is still more preferable to me though.

Industries should be run by businesses and not by politicians. Just the way I see it.

And the government are incapable of appointing proven business people to key positions?

Well I may selfishly vote for Conservative (Im life long Labour). The reason for this is because they are the only party that would fight against EUs bans/restrictions on supplements and all the other rights were giving away just to be in the EU.

I don't like Howard though and would like to see what the country would be like under Gordon Brown. I can't stand Blair - not just because he lied but hes an egotistical whos all about spin/gimics and against getting things done and improving things for people.

Matchfixer wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:
Thatcher......god, I cant say enough. Her greatest claim to fame is ... closing British Industry.

Great result.

I would rather have any industry privatised (provided there is healthy competition) than run by the government on tax payers money.

So yes a good result.

Oh yeah, you mean like the railways? Yeah, there's a fornicating success story.

DavidPayne wrote:And the government are incapable of appointing proven business people to key positions?

No course not. However, I feel privatised industries supply a far better service with choice of several suppliers (by enlarge). Therefore, my I would rather spend money paying a business whose sole focus is the industry they work in.

In fact I would like pretty much everything privatised NHS included at least partially (personal experience my reason for dislike of NHS) apart from Police, Fire services etc.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Well I may selfishly vote for Conservative (Im life long Labour). The reason for this is because they are the only party that would fight against EUs bans/restrictions on supplements and all the other rights were giving away just to be in the EU.

I don't like Howard though and would like to see what the country would be like under Gordon Brown. I can't stand Blair - not just because he lied but hes an egotistical whos all about spin/gimics and against getting things done and improving things for people.

You're contemplating voting TORY because of EU issues. Well it takes all sorts.

And you honestly think BLAIR is AGAINST getting things done?

Education - MASSIVE INVESTMENT

Health - MASSIVE INVESTMENT

Economy - VIBRANT, Low inflation, Low interest rates....

Employment - MINIMUM WAGE INTRODUCE & LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT FOR A GENERATION

Pensions - Pensioners given meaningful rises and extra for vulnerable in WINTER

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Matchfixer wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:
Thatcher......god, I cant say enough. Her greatest claim to fame is ... closing British Industry.

Great result.

I would rather have any industry privatised (provided there is healthy competition) than run by the government on tax payers money.

So yes a good result.

Oh yeah, you mean like the railways? Yeah, there's a fornicating success story.

Railtrack and Steven Byers - Great government success there!

Let's not forget this was set up by the government.

Oh yes, let's privatise everything so that every single facet of life is governed by the huge conglomorates who help make their shareholders richer.

If the NHS is privatised I will leave this country.

Some industries need regulation by government. The transport system is a vital part of a nations infrastructure, but we've seen the railways sold off for a pittance, yes the railways we all paid for in taxes and our parents, is now owned by private companies operating for profit only. Closing down unprofitable lines and reducing services which are considered expendable. Yeah, that's great, oh and hiking the prices up.

Our rail network is probably the most expensive in Europe, you can fornicating fly to scotland cheaper than you can get there by train!

Privatising the healthservice would see the same, 'non vital' operations cancelled or demoted down the chain, or having to pay for anything non life threatening, no fornicating way!

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
If the NHS is privatised I will leave this country.

Every cloud....

:-)

[quote="jamesmcdonnell"]If the NHS is privatised I will leave this country.

quote]

fornicate me privatise it privatise it

in seriousness dave you are talking totally from a man down t'pit perspective the biznezz was no longer economically viable so they shut it down. and took cheaper alternatives.

simple as that.

if you want a fornicating dissatation ill get my old man who was a senior manager at british coal and when i say senior I mean top 10 and he can fornicating explain it to you.

both you and James both agree cos you are both extreme left wing when it comes to politics.

Lets just get some perpective here: No nationalised industry can make money it goes back to the govt. It didnt matter what British coal borrowed from the govt, the gvot had the da when it was to be paid back. The company was losing money. it had to implode.

The mines were also a barmoter for employment keeping the unemployable or unskilled in jobs. If you had two arms and legs you could work down a pit. (and dont get offended my granddad was miner).

Even when it was uneconomical to employ these people they couldnt just downsize so it was a timebomb waiting to happen.

You have a short memory mate, (again convenient) look at fornicating longbridge, that was started be Red Robbo and the public got sick of being dictated to by the unions mate.

The were fed up with the toadies in the unnions calling strikes and impact on their daily lives. And a lot of the claims were ridiculous, look at the miners strike 28% they wanted fornicate me, 28% of your salery increase for a workforce of thousands wherre the frigg was that money gonna come from. the publics pockets no wonder they voted for thatcher.

it all well and good decrying the fall of the unions 20 years on when the truth is they were run by pudenda like skargill.

and you call me delusional.

i notice in you post you lay the blame on the tory governement but dont mention the fornicating mess this country was in prior to that AND the de-scaling of pit production for years b4 hand. Under labour governments and more left wing idealist labour governments at that.

very fornicating convenient.

like i said im neither tory nor labour.


im for fornicating business and prosperty of a nation on all scales you two strike me as typical of politicians in this country.

remember this remember that. fornicate off look forward. We know about the past what about the future.

lets learn and move forward whether left wing right wing or whatever lets try and work out whats best for the people not for our private stoic beliefs.


ill leave with one alarming fact, that under a labour government when they went to a 3 day week, production went up by nearly a quarter.



that in itself says enough.

Fascist pig!

The truth probably lies somewhere between our two points. Thatcher decided the time had come to make her stand and end the unions power, which admittedly was enough to topple governments (that's why labour lost). However, the manner in which it was done was brutal in the extreme. It's in the past for me, but I have strong memories of it, and that's growing up in London, and I can understand the bitterness felt in areas which were devastated by it.

Changes needed to be made, but the wholesale decimation of already deprived areas was sickening. I dare saw whoever was in power would have had enough of the unions, but I don't think anyone but thatcher would have taken as much pleasure in doing what she did. She really seemed to revel in crushing them, as if it was some sort of game.

i totally agree with you but at the ned of the day the fornicating unions held this country to ransom for years.

its a far more prosperous place without them.

told ya ive got very mixed political views.

DavidPayne wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Well I may selfishly vote for Conservative (Im life long Labour). The reason for this is because they are the only party that would fight against EUs bans/restrictions on supplements and all the other rights were giving away just to be in the EU.

I don't like Howard though and would like to see what the country would be like under Gordon Brown. I can't stand Blair - not just because he lied but hes an egotistical whos all about spin/gimics and against getting things done and improving things for people.

You're contemplating voting TORY because of EU issues. Well it takes all sorts.

And you honestly think BLAIR is AGAINST getting things done?

Education - MASSIVE INVESTMENT

Health - MASSIVE INVESTMENT

Economy - VIBRANT, Low inflation, Low interest rates....

Employment - MINIMUM WAGE INTRODUCE & LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT FOR A GENERATION

Pensions - Pensioners given meaningful rises and extra for vulnerable in WINTER

Massive investment is one thing, and commendable. Using that investment efficiently is another thing. Labour's answer is to form Quango after quango, which are to politics what sanctioning bodies are to boxing. Shite. Tories, on the other hand, would probably cut spending and/or many of the quangos without creating a higher efficiency. Conclusion: Shite. That leaves the Liberals, who wouldn't have a clue what to do if they were to come to power, due to lack of work experience, and would drive every footballer and fat cat to live in Jersey.

Yes, a man of great complexity, part baboon part effeminate dandy, quite a guy.

In seriousness, this country is definetly vibrant and a lot more exciting than it was in the 1970's, I remember the place I grew up in, Fulham, being dead as a witch's knocker back then, no bars, clubs, virtually no shops aside from the odd grocers.

There's a price been paid for all that though. All of the council houses (Fulham was a poor working class area, at least a lot of it was, back then), were boufght by the families, who then sold them on at a massive profit and got on the property ladder. Now most people who grew up there have zero chance of living there. My mum's 1 bed flat which she rents, was offered to her by the landlord about 15 years ago, and it 270,000 then, probably more like 320k now.

Change is a good thing, but there are downsides to all this apparent prosperity and there's a culture of individualism which is quite unpalatable at times.