UNDERRATED CHAMPIONS!... who and why....

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 06 May 2005, 16:34

Miguel 'right hand happy' Lora - no left hand whatsoever

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 May 2005, 16:45

How about Daniel Zaragoza for a warrior who never got his due!... always in great fights!... 8)

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 06 May 2005, 18:33

elmersalsa wrote:How about Mike McCallum??? He was very UNDERRATED .This Jamaican probably was the most underrated champion that I have ever seen

Others that come to my mind: Ernesto Marcel, Lupe Pintor, Larry Holmes, and Ezzard Charles

With the exception of Ernesto Marcel, you have named the fighters that I was going to write down..Sumbu Kalambay certainly deserves a mention as does Reggie Johnson.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 06 May 2005, 18:58

silkov wrote:How about Daniel Zaragoza for a warrior who never got his due!... always in great fights!... 8)

Fenech gave him a 10 round pasting in '85

One tough hombre, that's for sure

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 May 2005, 07:38

What about South Africas long reigning WBA Super-Featherweight Champion Brian Mitchell?

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=003842

I'm not saying he was an all time great fighter, but he was very good and seems to have been somewhat forgotten.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 May 2005, 08:29

Dennis Andries... Marvin Johnson, Kelvin Seabrooks!....

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 May 2005, 10:46

Not a World Champion but Canadas Larry Gains had a long sucsessfull career.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=013324

mehdi · Post by **mehdi** » 07 May 2005, 19:02

http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001713
this one was a french boxer , he was world champion and had great technical skills but he stoped his carreer after his last fight due to a controversial judges decision

http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=006093
this one from cuba is spectacular

http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001491
this one from ghana had the skills to become one of the best fighter in his weight classe

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 07 May 2005, 19:17

Road warrior Antonio "Kid Pambele" Cervantes. His 35(+?) year old legs were overwhelmed by Aaron Pryor and he was out-thought/out-boxed by, sounds strange to say it, a 'peak' 17 year old Benitez - who really was 'all there' that rainy day. Unfortunately those two losses came against his two most media friendly opposition. If you can get a hold of some of his other fights he was actually a really slick and potent counterpuncher.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 May 2005, 06:50

Manos de Oro wrote:Road warrior Antonio "Kid Pambele" Cervantes. His 35(+?) year old legs were overwhelmed by Aaron Pryor and he was out-thought/out-boxed by, sounds strange to say it, a 'peak' 17 year old Benitez - who really was 'all there' that rainy day. Unfortunately those two losses came against his two most media friendly opposition. If you can get a hold of some of his other fights he was actually a really slick and potent counterpuncher.

Yes, Cervantes was a great boxer... reminds me quite a bit of Pedrosa in some ways.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 12 May 2005, 11:41

What about the South African Feather/Jr Lightweight Mitchell. He won a lot of fights on the road, although he did not have a spectacular style.

Then there's Khaosai Galaxy. The man was unbeatable at his weight.

I know this might sound a bit odd but I don't think Michale Spinks really gets the credit he deserves. I'm sure I read that he beat Qawi a few weeks afetr his wife died. can anyone verify this?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 12 May 2005, 11:56

Ezzard wrote:What about the South African Feather/Jr Lightweight Mitchell. He won a lot of fights on the road, although he did not have a spectacular style.

Then there's Khaosai Galaxy. The man was unbeatable at his weight.

I know this might sound a bit odd but I don't think Michale Spinks really gets the credit he deserves. I'm sure I read that he beat Qawi a few weeks afetr his wife died. can anyone verify this?

That's true, it was his common law wife. A few minutes before the Qawi fight, someone had the bright idea of bringing his daughter to the dressing room - Mike broke down and had to pull himself together before going out to meet Qawi.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 12 May 2005, 12:01

Thanks for confirming that... What a man though. It shows some mental strength to be able to go and fight Qawi after that.

Would you agree that Spinks is underrated???

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 12 May 2005, 12:07

Depends who you speak to I guess. Most in the trade would tell you Spinks is an all time great light heavy - no doubt about that.

Shame most people just remember him for freezing in the headlights v Tyson. It was strange, because no-one had EVER seen a reaction like that from Spinks before - just shows the type of reputation Tyson had at his peak - scary enough to melt the resolve of a guy like Michael Spinks.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 12 May 2005, 12:14

Jeff Chandler.

Scypion · Post by **Scypion** » 13 May 2005, 15:23

Speaking of Harold Johnson, I think that he may have been the best Lightheavyweight of the late 1950's. I believe that Johnson could have taken Archie Moore in the late 1950's, but could not get another shot at the title. Moore opted to fight Yvon Durelle in both 1958 and 1959, did not defend in 1960, and Guilli? Rinaldi, in 1961.

The Durelle fight in 1958 turned out to be exciting, but Durelle had been knocked out already by 2 of Moore's victims in title fights, Yolande Pompey and Tony Anthony (Anthony Knocked out Durelle about 6 months before Durelle fought Moore).

Of course, not fighting Johnson allowed Moore to hold on to the title longer.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 13 May 2005, 18:11

Scypion wrote:Speaking of Harold Johnson, I think that he may have been the best Lightheavyweight of the late 1950's. I believe that Johnson could have taken Archie Moore in the late 1950's, but could not get another shot at the title. Moore opted to fight Yvon Durelle in both 1958 and 1959, did not defend in 1960, and Guilli? Rinaldi, in 1961.

The Durelle fight in 1958 turned out to be exciting, but Durelle had been knocked out already by 2 of Moore's victims in title fights, Yolande Pompey and Tony Anthony (Anthony Knocked out Durelle about 6 months before Durelle fought Moore).

Of course, not fighting Johnson allowed Moore to hold on to the title longer.

Yeah, in the late 1950s ANYBODY with great skills would have beaten Moore. But Moore kicked Johnson's ass 4 out of 5 before 1955.

Scypion · Post by **Scypion** » 14 May 2005, 14:42

I know very well that Moore beat Johnson 4 out of 5 including a title match in 1954. All I am saying here is that Johnsonn was probably the best lightheavyweight during the late 1950's. Johnson had to wait until he was 33 in 1961 for a shot at even a piece of the title (NBA I think).

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 14 May 2005, 17:26

Scypion wrote:I know very well that Moore beat Johnson 4 out of 5 including a title match in 1954. All I am saying here is that Johnsonn was probably the best lightheavyweight during the late 1950's. Johnson had to wait until he was 33 in 1961 for a shot at even a piece of the title (NBA I think).

I'm a big fan of Moore but agree he didn't want any part of Johnson after their '54 title fight.... for one reason Moore had already beat him 4-1 but also Johnson was so good Moore knew it would have been a risky fight, especially after about '55 and '56 when Moore was really on the slide.
Having said that though Johnson had his probs in the mid-50s and was inactive quite a bit... had he stayed more active and that perhaps he could have got another fight with Moore.

Scypion · Post by **Scypion** » 14 May 2005, 21:39

BTW, I recently bought a book about Archie Moore called "The Ageless Warrior." It is a life history of Archie and has a lot of stuff about his fights. It is a must for Moore fans, and even non-Moore fans should like it if they are interested in boxing.

As for Harold Johnson, I think that you have got it pretty much as it was between Moore and Johnson in the late 1950's. Moore had a greater career than Johnson did, but Moore was past his prime in 1958 whereas Johnson was about 28 and in his prime.

Of course, Moore should have gotten his shot at the lightheavy title sooner than he did, but then, so should have Ezzard Charles and maybe others.

barry · Post by **barry** » 15 May 2005, 02:08

>>>Of course, Moore should have gotten his shot at the lightheavy title sooner than he did, but then, so should have Ezzard Charles and maybe others.<<<

Moore was right at 40 years old before he got his shot, not only that but he had been fighting the very best for nearly seventeen years as well. Moore would have been one of the most dominant middleweight champions ever if he would have only got a shot at the title, but he had to wait and wait and finally move on up to 175 for a title shot. Same thing goes for Ezz Charles at 175.

Scypion · Post by **Scypion** » 15 May 2005, 23:11

Charles and Moore were two great ones all right. I think that either man could have won the LightHeavyweight Title just about anytime during the 1940's if they were given a shot, although both were middleweights through 1943, and Charles went into the army in 1943 and didn't fight again until 1946. After Charles beat Walcott for the Heavyweight Title, vacated by Louis in 1949, Charles fought Gus Lesnevich, who held the Lightheavyweight Title during much of the 1940's. Charles knocked out Lesnevich in the 7th round.

Archie Moore's age is listed differently in different places. I have heard 12/13/13 and 12/13/16. I think that the 1916 date is the correct one, although I can't say for sure.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 15 May 2005, 23:28

enrique wrote:How about Freddie Miller? Hardly ever mentioned today and look at his record........wow!

Was never champion.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 16 May 2005, 13:50

Grimm wrote:
enrique wrote:How about Freddie Miller? Hardly ever mentioned today and look at his record........wow!
Was never champion.

He was NBA Featherweight champ 1933 to 1936!... fought them all and had 245 fights losing just 26 and being stopped just 1 time in his last fight.
Think you need to do a bit more research Grimm.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 16 May 2005, 17:27

Ehem......Like I said Freddie Miller was not a champion.

UNDERRATED CHAMPIONS!... who and why....

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