BoxRec

Thrown meaningful shots for one thing, rather than the pathetic pawing shots he threw all the way through.

Tito looked flat all the way through, even after the fight he was grinning and didn't seem to give a shit.

Why on earth was Winky talking a rematch, who the hell wants to see that again?

I honestly think Winky could have sparked him with a little more effort in the middle rounds.

Tito wasn't throwing pawing shots mate. Not at all.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Why on earth was Winky talking a rematch

Dollars!!!!!! Lots of 'em.

KO Atrist wrote: It has been my opinion that Tito has been shot for a long time.

Well you obviously didnt see the Mayorga fight.

liamlion wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Why on earth was Winky talking a rematch

Dollars!!!!!! Lots of 'em.

KO Atrist wrote: It has been my opinion that Tito has been shot for a long time.

Well you obviously didnt see the Mayorga fight.

What the one where he got repeatedly tagged and dropped by a pumped up crude Welterweight Brawler.

Yeah, thats the fight that made me think he was over the hill

yip i stated beating a crude welter in mayorga vs Winky beating mosely twice doesnt match up./

hence winky ud was the prediction.
I thought Tito might have some success early but he was just outclassed.

as i sadi before Winkly underated Tito overated and so it proved.

KO Atrist wrote: What the one where he got repeatedly tagged and dropped by a pumped up crude Welterweight Brawler.

Trinidad never got repeatedly tagged (Mayorga only landed 25% of his punches) from the 3rd onwards Trinidad was basically punch perfect and totally dominated a tough man who had previously never been down.

Trinidad Dropped?? more like punched on the back of the head, and touching down with one glove. Sure it was technically counted as a knockdown but Trinidad certainly wasnt properly dropped. More over balance than anything, he legs never buckled.

I agree Mayorga is a crude Welterweight, but he did a wicked destruction job on Vernon Forrest, and we all know what Forrest did to Shane Mosely - so the innuendo that Mayorga is a bum is incorrect.

What a gulf in class between the Sky and HBO commentary. Though ideally I'd prefer no commentary at all, when it is there I want insight, not irritation. Roy Jones said something insightful during the ringwalks - that Winky used to walk around at 190 pounds when he (Roy) was fighting at light-heavy; he was usually within a pound of Jones Jr's out-the-ring weight. That might explain how, even though they weighed about the same on the night, Winky looked the bigger guy. He's naturally bigger.

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The HBO team (including, apparently, Manny Steward in the pre-fight stuff) had the fight nailed from round 1 and 2 onward. Never missed a beat. Called it straight on at every point. No OTT speech or tone, just called it as it was. I absolutely hate the fact I can tell who Jim Watt favours, whether it's in a domestic or big time fight.

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Tito looked sensational against Mayorga, but he relies on his opponents making mistakes - and Mayorga makes them in abundance. He would probably look sensational against the likes of Mayorga until he's 60. I have to say though, I don't like the way the weight issue drags that victory down. No doubt it played a big part (if you look at the original thread I was the first one to bring it up!) but Mayorga was a dangerous opponent. Look at the predictions people made before that fight, loads of people (some who really knew boxing) went for Mayorga. That is a trend that I've seen before virtually all of Trinidad's fights post DLH.

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You know, we're talking about signs that Calzaghe is post-peak, showing signs he's slipping. Why is it so hard to believe Trinidad is the same - when not only has he been pro for over 15 years, but also taking into account the fighters/fights he's been in (with). To put it in perspective, padded Sicknote Joke had his first pro fight four months after Trinidad won his first 'world' title! We talk about Calzaghe's fight with the weight drained Eubank being ages ago, yet Trinidad had already made 11 title defences by that time of a legitimate title. See what I'm getting at?.. No? Think about it...


Roy Jones hinted around round 9 that Trinidad may be shot, and then again at the end both he and Larry Merchant went into detail about it. The thing I noticed about Trinidad stalling very slightly when he'd just been caught in range was cleared up by Jones Jr. The great bain of watching fights on TV for me is that you don't often get a good sense of what's going on below the waist of the fighter when the TV frame starts at their belly button. Jones pointed out that Tito has been leaning all his weight forward for a while now (since there was all that hype about him fighting Roy), also hinting, like knockout artist does above, that Tito might be suffering the effects of a hard career. I went and watched some old Trinidad fights and, sure enough, after he's been tagged he'll slip backward or to the side with the right foot still semi-cocked. He gets caught plenty with jabs, but never does he look so un-slick. fornicate, in the Reid and Joppy fights he was getting tattooed with a real piston jab and still managed to overcome it, Winky's was sharp, but he never fully committed with it and it was mostly an arm punch (not a criticism - different strokes for diffrenet folks).

Take the lesson from Jones - Tarver 1. Trinidad was one of the great welterweights of the 90's along with De La Hoya, Quartey and Whitaker. I don't want to see him go out on his back like Jones Jr. Think back to december 2003 - Jones still looked like Jones, everyone said, but he just ate more shots and his footwork looked shoddier than normal. It's the exact same scenario for Tito. The signs are there. Seeing him kayo'd might please the (no) marks, but the genuine boxing fan I don't think wants to see that. He's gave us so many exciting nights and hardly talked smalk, I can't see any impetus for such a desire unless you're a fan who looks at boxing like it's WWF/E/whatever 'wrestling'. He will be remembered as a simple guy who took the challenges and won without any naff heel persona, it was the fights/performances that spoke for themsleves, pure and simple. A credit to the game.


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I'm not trying to take away anything from Winky - he does what he does, and does it well. I like this success he's having, but the way I see it is this: he has now beat a tail-end Moseley, and a tail-end Trinidad, and if Hopkins looks rocky versus Taylor (which he shouldn't) then Wright should go there. This business is all about timing. Winky laboured hard, falled at his entrance to the top early on, but is now reaping the rewards for sticking with it. He's a good guy, hopefully he'll make his money.

Looks like it's over. Good stuff.

AP wrote:Trinidad's father retires, possibly ending son's career
May 16, 2005

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) -- Former middleweight champion Felix Trinidad won't keep fighting without his father, putting his boxing future in jeopardy.

Trinidad, who lost to Winky Wright on Saturday in Las Vegas, said at a news conference late Sunday that his father wants to retire.

``If you aren't here, I'm not continuing in boxing,'' Trinidad said before embracing his father and crying.

Trinidad has held world titles in three weight classes, and had lost just once before Saturday -- to Bernard Hopkins in a middleweight title fight four years ago. Trinidad also retired after that fight.

``I don't feel that I am giving my 100 percent in the corner, as I used to ... Because of this, I feel I don't want to carry on working in the ring,'' Trinidad's father said.

Added Felix Trinidad: ``My father told me at Miami airport what he was going to do, and I reminded him that since I was a kid I told him that the day my father could not be at my side, I would not throw another blow.''

Manos de Oro wrote: Take the lesson from Jones - Tarver 1. Trinidad was one of the great welterweights of the 90's along with De La Hoya, Quartey and Whitaker. I don't want to see him go out on his back like Jones Jr. Think back to december 2003 - Jones still looked like Jones, everyone said, but he just ate more shots and his footwork looked shoddier than normal. It's the exact same scenario for Tito.

You cannot seriously try and compare Trinidad and Roy Jones. They have complete opposite styles of fighting. Sure your analogy of Jones is correct, he has slowed down...but Trinidad has never had the sort of footwork or Gazelle like reflexes that Jones possessed. Look at Trinidad's record he has been knocked down some 12 or 13 times - most of them coming in the 1990s at Welter.

Effectively Trinidad is the sort of fighter who takes a shot to give a shot - though certainly he's no brawler. But to claim that all of a sudden Trinidad no longer hares around the ring and dodges puches is just pure wrong. Trinidad was never ever that sort of fighter.

sorry - double posted.

liamlion wrote:

Manos de Oro wrote: Take the lesson from Jones - Tarver 1. Trinidad was one of the great welterweights of the 90's along with De La Hoya, Quartey and Whitaker. I don't want to see him go out on his back like Jones Jr. Think back to december 2003 - Jones still looked like Jones, everyone said, but he just ate more shots and his footwork looked shoddier than normal. It's the exact same scenario for Tito.

You cannot seriously try and compare Trinidad and Roy Jones. They have complete opposite styles of fighting. Sure your analogy of Jones is correct, he has slowed down...but Trinidad has never had the sort of footwork or Gazelle like reflexes that Jones possessed. Look at Trinidad's record he has been knocked down some 12 or 13 times - most of them coming in the 1990s at Welter.

Effectively Trinidad is the sort of fighter who takes a shot to give a shot - though certainly he's no brawler. But to claim that all of a sudden Trinidad no longer hares around the ring and dodges puches is just pure wrong. Trinidad was never ever that sort of fighter.

You're way off, liam. You took the Jones and Trinidad comparision completely the wrong way - I wasn't comparing their fighting styles at all, I was comparing their signs of shotness.
Trinidad was not the type of fighter who took a shot to give a shot. It was only when he moved up in class he really started to get visibly tattooed. You should watch his earlier fights, in slow motion if you have too (like I have many times) and look for how he slips in and out of range often by a fraction of an inch. That ability is completely gone now.

Manos de Oro wrote: Trinidad was not the type of fighter who took a shot to give a shot. It was only when he moved up in class he really started to get visibly tattooed. You should watch his earlier fights, in slow motion if you have too (like I have many times) and look for how he slips in and out of range often by a fraction of an inch. That ability is completely gone now.

Yeah I used the wrong words, I dont think he gave a shot to take a shot necessarily but what I meant to say is that 12/13 knockdowns - the majority coming in his "earlier fights" - highlights that the man was never shy of being tagged.

liamlion wrote:

Manos de Oro wrote: Trinidad was not the type of fighter who took a shot to give a shot. It was only when he moved up in class he really started to get visibly tattooed. You should watch his earlier fights, in slow motion if you have too (like I have many times) and look for how he slips in and out of range often by a fraction of an inch. That ability is completely gone now.

Yeah I used the wrong words, I dont think he gave a shot to take a shot necessarily but what I meant to say is that 12/13 knockdowns - the majority coming in his "earlier fights" - highlights that the man was never shy of being tagged.

Yep, he wasn't no Sweet Pea, but he wasn't no JC Chavez either. An interesting point about those knockdowns is that out of all them I can only remember him losing his wits twice - against Cortes and Hopkins. Hopkins was the only one who managed the stoppage, yet Tito still made it up at 9 and the fight was about to go on but for Papa Trinidad running in with the towel.

Trinidad might have lost the agility he had in his welterweight days, but that doesn't mean it all disappeared just before the Winky fight. I fail to see any significant difference between the Tito that fought Hopkins and the version we saw on saturday night. Did people say Felix was shot in 2001? No he'd just bitten off way more than he could chew. Same thing here.

I think he's a long way off the fighter he was in the late 90's, the layoff did him no good in my eyes. There absoultely no snap in his punches on Saturday, granted Wright fought a brilliant fight but there was nothing of note coming back. Even the shots being blocked didnt have much clout in them at all. To me Trinidad's balance was non existent, some of that was caused by Wright keeping him on the jab but he just didnt look right from the outset.

Nobody is trying to discredit Wright's win, however its stupid to say that the Tito in the ring on Saturday was as good as the Tito of the late 90's thats clearly not the case.

nickd wrote:... its stupid to say that the Tito in the ring on Saturday was as good as the Tito of the late 90's thats clearly not the case.

Totally agree. However I would say that in Tito's last fight against Ricardo Mayorga, he "was as good as the Tito of the late 90's". People can say that Tito has been shot for a long time but the fight against Mayorga clearly rebuts this.

If Trinidad had met Wright all those years ago, Im sure Wright still would have out-thought Tito and won a landslide points victory.

I think Wright may have beaten him but it would have been closer. Mayorga was made to measure plodding forward taking full blooded shots. The Tito of old would have knocked Mayorga out in 2 or 3 rounds considering the amount of clean shots he landed.

nickd wrote:The Tito of old would have knocked Mayorga out in 2 or 3 rounds considering the amount of clean shots he landed.

So now it's the punching power of Trinidad that has gone? This just gets funnier.