Why Rocky Maricano is top 3 Heavyweight of all time
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Rock would win, the man would not accept defeat. he had too much heart to lay down to liston. plus rocky had just as much power as liston and could take punishment. he was never hurt during his career. I definetly think marcianos heart would win this fight and Marciano would KO liston in the lateer rounds. Marciano would be sawrming him with 1000 punches a round and he would come up with a good game plan against listons attack.,
re
Rocky never faced anyone that punched as hard as Liston, and Marciano was hurt in a few fights, but he did have heart like no one could imagine, but sometimes heart will not always pull you through, athough it did in his case on a number of occasions. Had his bout with Ezz Charles, the one where his nose was shredded, occured today it would have been stopped. Plus you have to remember, Marciano lost a few bouts as an amateur, so it wasn't like he did not know what defeat was like. I give Marciano a lot of credit, but I don't over do it. Had he faced a prime Ezzard Charles, I have little doubt that he would have lost on points. Rock's competition throughout his career was just not stellar opposition to say the least, and he had difficulties with really good fighters that could box well. He was the best conditioned ever and certainly had one of the heaviest right hands ever, but in truth he was a limited fighter that maximized the abilities that he had to limits most could never reach.
IT WAS LARRY HOLMES, how many people could even knock Larry Holmes down man.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:First of, in the 2nd fight where Holmes was Knocked down , holmes was actually 30 but in fairness Holmes was still in his prime cause he got a ltae start and i change the fact that I called holmes old. However, Ernie shanvers hit HOLMES FLUSH ON THE JAW. NOW COME ON WITH A FLUSH PUNCH HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO KO ANYONE IF HES REALLY THE BEST PUNCHER IN HISOTRY. holmes was more hurt by renaldo snipes right that earnie shavers. o and marciano would KO holmes cause Holmes is sucsebtible to a right hand and marcianos Suzie Q and body punches would ware holmes down and though holmes has a good chin, I think Marciano would stop him and if not beat him on points. Marciano is a crouch will get really low and holmes will have hard time jabbing marciano. Holmes commented after he lost to spinks that he would have wooped marcianos ass. right in front of marcianos brother!! holmes lost a great deeal of respect cause marciano is one of the most respected champs ever, plus everyone knew rocky would have gave holmes a beating. I wish rocky could have came out of his grave and nailed him with a right for saying that.
Three reasons why Marciano is not top 3.
George Foreman- Probably the hardest hitter of all times, much longer reach than Marciano and probably faster- would either ko Marciano or stop him on cuts.
Mike Tyson- Probably tied with Foreman for hard hitting, much faster, very hard to hit and great chin- could alson ko Marciano or stop him on cuts.
Sonny Liston- Up there with Tyson and Foreman for power, freaky arm span, decent speed and a jab that would not allow Marciano to get inside-
Marciano gets KO'd and if not he loses on points.
George Foreman- Probably the hardest hitter of all times, much longer reach than Marciano and probably faster- would either ko Marciano or stop him on cuts.
Mike Tyson- Probably tied with Foreman for hard hitting, much faster, very hard to hit and great chin- could alson ko Marciano or stop him on cuts.
Sonny Liston- Up there with Tyson and Foreman for power, freaky arm span, decent speed and a jab that would not allow Marciano to get inside-
Marciano gets KO'd and if not he loses on points.
Larry Holmes would have had a comparatively easy night against Rocky, really the man was in a different class imo.
As for Liston I think he'd Ko Marciano early, Rocky was a slow starter and was floored early against Moore and Walcott, Liston was a bigger puncher than both and I think could ko the Rock in 1 or 2 rounds.
This is not to denigrate Marciano but its a question of Styles... just as Foreman koed Frazier (and also would Rocky had they fought) Rockys style was made for Liston.
As for Liston I think he'd Ko Marciano early, Rocky was a slow starter and was floored early against Moore and Walcott, Liston was a bigger puncher than both and I think could ko the Rock in 1 or 2 rounds.
This is not to denigrate Marciano but its a question of Styles... just as Foreman koed Frazier (and also would Rocky had they fought) Rockys style was made for Liston.
I must say also that much is often said about Rockys toughness and obviously he was tough but in my opinion a tougher fighter and possibly the champ with the best chin and biggest heart ever was Ali... the guy took tremendous punches later in his career, must have had iron in his jaw in his wars with Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Liston, Shavers. Because of his speed and elusiveness early in his career Ali's toughness is often overlooked, I've never seen a fighter with a bigger heart.
Prime agaisnt prime, Rocky would win agaisnt Liston (and he would savagely beat Foreman) because he would stay away for the first 3-4 rounds until the bigger guys got winded and then swarmed them and ko them. Planning a fight is an important part of victory.
If however he would have tried to swarm them early he would have been caught and stopped. But his trainer was too good a strategist to allow Rocky to bullrush them big sluggers early. Rocky and his trainer formed a good team and would have had the right plan to win any fight.
Frazier was not i nthe same class as Rocky. Rocky was one of a kind.
the only kind of fighters that would have given Rocky problems would have been someons like Vitali, Wlad and Valuev, Bowe and Lewis. But they are from diffrent eras. The figters which came to Rocky would have been felled hard and out. He had to be kept off balance and outboxed from a distance and the foe had to make it a long distance fight and have good stamina to go the distance at top performance.
In boxing A can beat B and B can beat C, but C can beat A. It is not always as expected than A can beat C. That is a mistake that is made often, but it is false. At least in boxing.
Foreman is over blown based on that Frazier fight. Frazier would have won if he had a good hard right hand instead of just a left hook, as Foreman was always open to a good right hand. thats why I wouldnt give him any chance agaisnt Rocky, who had both a hard left hook and the hardest right hand ever.
Liston would have been dangerous early, but Rocky would have stayed away early. If Liston tried foolishly to close in he would have gotten into hard uppercuts and been done. Later on Rockys stamina would have been decisive. Close but no cigar. Rocky hands down.
Tyson: big bully but his peak-a-boo stance left him open to right hands and his tendency to come in would have undone him. Goo dfight while it lasted, but Tyson tastes canvas big time and goes singing with the crocodiles. Holyfield showed how easily the right hand can get Mike if you block his swarm well. And Rocky hit harder.
the hardest fight would have been Liston, but with his trainer crafting the fight plan and march strategy, Rocky would have one a hard fought match by late ko. Liston was also susceptible to right hands. But only late in the fight. IT all depends on the fight plan really. With the right plan Rocky wins. With an average plan, Liston wins on points.
The funny thing is than Rocky weighed on fight night only 186lb during most of his carrer. Today that wouldnt even be a cruiser, but a lt-hv. So yeah, the man was a phenomenon. Few fans (and unfotunatel trainers and fighter too) studied this man closely.
At heavy, style wise the worst fights would have been Byrd and Roy. Not because they are better than other fighters mentioned in this thread, but because their styles played on Rockys weakensses more than other fighters styles. Their speed and cute dancing would have given Rocky fits. IF he caught then at all they would be talking with the mice in French. But if they could stay away all night they might have squeaked a points win. It depends on how well their bodys culd have endured the savage punching though. And Roy was very chinny too. And Byrd rope-a-dopes too much for a safe victory.
And lastly, Rocky did not land clean on anyones head, chin or jaws without flooring them. They remained standing only as long as they could block partially the punch. Holmes was arrogant, but wouldnt get up from a Rocky right hand. Shavers power is overrated. You buy too much into hype. The man landed clean and Holmes got up. Myth exposed.
When a genuine bone cranching puncher lands clean you are not supposed to get up and win the fight. You are not supposed to. Myth exposed.
If however he would have tried to swarm them early he would have been caught and stopped. But his trainer was too good a strategist to allow Rocky to bullrush them big sluggers early. Rocky and his trainer formed a good team and would have had the right plan to win any fight.
Frazier was not i nthe same class as Rocky. Rocky was one of a kind.
the only kind of fighters that would have given Rocky problems would have been someons like Vitali, Wlad and Valuev, Bowe and Lewis. But they are from diffrent eras. The figters which came to Rocky would have been felled hard and out. He had to be kept off balance and outboxed from a distance and the foe had to make it a long distance fight and have good stamina to go the distance at top performance.
In boxing A can beat B and B can beat C, but C can beat A. It is not always as expected than A can beat C. That is a mistake that is made often, but it is false. At least in boxing.
Foreman is over blown based on that Frazier fight. Frazier would have won if he had a good hard right hand instead of just a left hook, as Foreman was always open to a good right hand. thats why I wouldnt give him any chance agaisnt Rocky, who had both a hard left hook and the hardest right hand ever.
Liston would have been dangerous early, but Rocky would have stayed away early. If Liston tried foolishly to close in he would have gotten into hard uppercuts and been done. Later on Rockys stamina would have been decisive. Close but no cigar. Rocky hands down.
Tyson: big bully but his peak-a-boo stance left him open to right hands and his tendency to come in would have undone him. Goo dfight while it lasted, but Tyson tastes canvas big time and goes singing with the crocodiles. Holyfield showed how easily the right hand can get Mike if you block his swarm well. And Rocky hit harder.
the hardest fight would have been Liston, but with his trainer crafting the fight plan and march strategy, Rocky would have one a hard fought match by late ko. Liston was also susceptible to right hands. But only late in the fight. IT all depends on the fight plan really. With the right plan Rocky wins. With an average plan, Liston wins on points.
The funny thing is than Rocky weighed on fight night only 186lb during most of his carrer. Today that wouldnt even be a cruiser, but a lt-hv. So yeah, the man was a phenomenon. Few fans (and unfotunatel trainers and fighter too) studied this man closely.
At heavy, style wise the worst fights would have been Byrd and Roy. Not because they are better than other fighters mentioned in this thread, but because their styles played on Rockys weakensses more than other fighters styles. Their speed and cute dancing would have given Rocky fits. IF he caught then at all they would be talking with the mice in French. But if they could stay away all night they might have squeaked a points win. It depends on how well their bodys culd have endured the savage punching though. And Roy was very chinny too. And Byrd rope-a-dopes too much for a safe victory.
And lastly, Rocky did not land clean on anyones head, chin or jaws without flooring them. They remained standing only as long as they could block partially the punch. Holmes was arrogant, but wouldnt get up from a Rocky right hand. Shavers power is overrated. You buy too much into hype. The man landed clean and Holmes got up. Myth exposed.
When a genuine bone cranching puncher lands clean you are not supposed to get up and win the fight. You are not supposed to. Myth exposed.
re
Marciano did not know how to stay away from an opponent! He had only one style of fighting...to get inside and inflict as much punishment as possible with pretty much only the wide hooks that his short arms would allow. He was never someone that could fight while staying away, he had to be right on an opponents chest, which would play right into the hands of big guys like Foreman, Liston and others. Goldman knew that Marciano was very limited in his boxing skills which is exactly why he molded the Rock into the seek and destroy fighter that he was. He knew that Rocky was way too crude to ever be a stylist type of boxer and everything hinged on his ability to get inside, which he did better than about anyone that I have ever seen, but stay away from an opponent...he never did!
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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Jab, you hit the nail on the head. Prime agaisnt prime, Rocky would win agaisnt Liston (and he would savagely beat Foreman) because he would stay away for the first 3-4 rounds until the bigger guys got winded and then swarmed them and ko them.
I totally agree u guys overate listons size and power over rocky and under estimate rockys toughness, chin, nad power. Rocky owuld have came up with a perfect game plan that would have knocked out foreman and liston in the latter rouunds. Marciano was not exactley liek frazier. marciano could hit with both hands. also, barry ezzard charles that night against marciano was at his best. some experts think ezzards finest hour was against marciano that first fight when he looked like a prime ezzard again. Marciano is just to strong, ad powerful and would have alwasy beat charles. O YEAH IN THE 2ND FIGHT, IF THE FIGHT WERE NOW A DAYS, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCIDENTAL ELBOW AND IT WOULD HAVE GONE TO SCORE CARDS AND MARCIANO WAS LEADING THE CARDSS IN ROUNDS 6-1, 5-1-1, 6-1. SO MARCIAMO WOULD HAVE DEFENDED HIS TITEL WIT HA TEHCNICAL DESICION. barry ands silkov u underestimate marciano way too much., now way would we lay down to liston. heart alone and his punching power and stamina will WILL rocky to victory. NO is like rockymarciano. no one will ever be again. he may be 186, but hes lot bigger than u people think. he really is 220 he trained himself down to 185 and hes all muscle. hes big boned [/quote]
I totally agree u guys overate listons size and power over rocky and under estimate rockys toughness, chin, nad power. Rocky owuld have came up with a perfect game plan that would have knocked out foreman and liston in the latter rouunds. Marciano was not exactley liek frazier. marciano could hit with both hands. also, barry ezzard charles that night against marciano was at his best. some experts think ezzards finest hour was against marciano that first fight when he looked like a prime ezzard again. Marciano is just to strong, ad powerful and would have alwasy beat charles. O YEAH IN THE 2ND FIGHT, IF THE FIGHT WERE NOW A DAYS, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCIDENTAL ELBOW AND IT WOULD HAVE GONE TO SCORE CARDS AND MARCIANO WAS LEADING THE CARDSS IN ROUNDS 6-1, 5-1-1, 6-1. SO MARCIAMO WOULD HAVE DEFENDED HIS TITEL WIT HA TEHCNICAL DESICION. barry ands silkov u underestimate marciano way too much., now way would we lay down to liston. heart alone and his punching power and stamina will WILL rocky to victory. NO is like rockymarciano. no one will ever be again. he may be 186, but hes lot bigger than u people think. he really is 220 he trained himself down to 185 and hes all muscle. hes big boned [/quote]
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
[/quote]BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Jab, you hit the nail on the head. Prime agaisnt prime, Rocky would win agaisnt Liston (and he would savagely beat Foreman) because he would stay away for the first 3-4 rounds until the bigger guys got winded and then swarmed them and ko them.
I totally agree u guys overate listons size and power over rocky and under estimate rockys toughness, chin, nad power. Rocky owuld have came up with a perfect game plan that would have knocked out foreman and liston in the latter rouunds. Marciano was not exactley liek frazier. marciano could hit with both hands. also, barry ezzard charles that night against marciano was at his best. some experts think ezzards finest hour was against marciano that first fight when he looked like a prime ezzard again. Marciano is just to strong, ad powerful and would have alwasy beat charles. O YEAH IN THE 2ND FIGHT, IF THE FIGHT WERE NOW A DAYS, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCIDENTAL ELBOW AND IT WOULD HAVE GONE TO SCORE CARDS AND MARCIANO WAS LEADING THE CARDSS IN ROUNDS 6-1, 5-1-1, 6-1. SO MARCIAMO WOULD HAVE DEFENDED HIS TITEL WIT HA TEHCNICAL DESICION. barry ands silkov u underestimate marciano way too much., now way would we lay down to liston. heart alone and his punching power and stamina will WILL rocky to victory. NO is like rockymarciano. no one will ever be again. he may be 186, but hes lot bigger than u people think. he really is 220 he trained himself down to 185 and hes all muscle. hes big boned
I do not underestimate Marciano, I have all his title fights and some pre title fights and I also have a whole bunch of Liston, Frazier, Foreman fights etc. My views are based mainly on what I have seen with my own eyes. How many fights have you seen of Liston and Marciano?.
I'm sure Liston would beat Marciano not just due to his power but also his technique... Liston had a great jab, like a piston, he could if he wanted use that all night on Rocky and stop him on cuts. Look at Rockys face after most of his fights he always cut up badly (a problem that contributed to his retirement) ...he never fought anyone as powerful as Liston... who basically would break Rocky up into peices to be frank.
Rocky was not a great one punch knockout artist.... he wore his opponents down with his constant attacks and his roughhousing (and frequent fouls) Liston had a numbing punch and furthermore very underrated speed of hand.... it is Liston rather than Rocky who is underrated here.
Anyway I look at it I cannot see Marciano ever being able to beat Liston... I see Liston winning by ko in the early rounds.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Ur wrong man, and i think most experts owuld disagree with u silkov. hey dempseyfire i do look objectively. that why i put him at # 3 on the all time list. i see jou louis beating rocky and mike tyson if he gets him early.
SONNY LISTON NEVER FACED A PUNCHER AS POWERFUL AS ROCKY. ROCKY DID NOT HAVE ONE PUNCH POWER??? WHAT ABOUT HIS SUZIE Q/????? EVER HEARD OF IT??? it only left walcott unconcious on the floor. rocky is strong enough and tough enough to handle liston in the early rounds and plus rocky would wear him down witth all those punches and rocky KO him. rocky never LOST. THAT MEANS HE HAS THE HEART TO REFUSE TO ACCEPT DEFEAT. NO MATTER HOW HURT HE IS AND HE NEVER WAS HURT, HE COULD ALWAYS COMEBACK CUAUSE HE HAS THAT HURT THAT LISTON DOESNT HAVE. HE WOULD NOT BE INTIMIDADED OR LAY DOWN TO LISTON. plus hes a lot harder to hit with a CLEAN PUNCH. and i think he would lay into liston with that suzie Q especially over listons jab. i mean didnt liston get knocked ot by a little ali fliick right hand. im not saying it will be easy, but i know the rock will prevail
SONNY LISTON NEVER FACED A PUNCHER AS POWERFUL AS ROCKY. ROCKY DID NOT HAVE ONE PUNCH POWER??? WHAT ABOUT HIS SUZIE Q/????? EVER HEARD OF IT??? it only left walcott unconcious on the floor. rocky is strong enough and tough enough to handle liston in the early rounds and plus rocky would wear him down witth all those punches and rocky KO him. rocky never LOST. THAT MEANS HE HAS THE HEART TO REFUSE TO ACCEPT DEFEAT. NO MATTER HOW HURT HE IS AND HE NEVER WAS HURT, HE COULD ALWAYS COMEBACK CUAUSE HE HAS THAT HURT THAT LISTON DOESNT HAVE. HE WOULD NOT BE INTIMIDADED OR LAY DOWN TO LISTON. plus hes a lot harder to hit with a CLEAN PUNCH. and i think he would lay into liston with that suzie Q especially over listons jab. i mean didnt liston get knocked ot by a little ali fliick right hand. im not saying it will be easy, but i know the rock will prevail
I'm sorry but you are wrong, I've been watching boxing and involved in boxing longer than you've been alive. Also most boxing experts would agree with what I have said. Rocky was not particularly hard to hit and he marked up badly in all his fights, this is a fact.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Ur wrong man, and i think most experts owuld disagree with u silkov. hey dempseyfire i do look objectively. that why i put him at # 3 on the all time list. i see jou louis beating rocky and mike tyson if he gets him early.
SONNY LISTON NEVER FACED A PUNCHER AS POWERFUL AS ROCKY. ROCKY DID NOT HAVE ONE PUNCH POWER??? WHAT ABOUT HIS SUZIE Q/????? EVER HEARD OF IT??? it only left walcott unconcious on the floor. rocky is strong enough and tough enough to handle liston in the early rounds and plus rocky would wear him down witth all those punches and rocky KO him. rocky never LOST. THAT MEANS HE HAS THE HEART TO REFUSE TO ACCEPT DEFEAT. NO MATTER HOW HURT HE IS AND HE NEVER WAS HURT, HE COULD ALWAYS COMEBACK CUAUSE HE HAS THAT HURT THAT LISTON DOESNT HAVE. HE WOULD NOT BE INTIMIDADED OR LAY DOWN TO LISTON. plus hes a lot harder to hit with a CLEAN PUNCH. and i think he would lay into liston with that suzie Q especially over listons jab. i mean didnt liston get knocked ot by a little ali fliick right hand. im not saying it will be easy, but i know the rock will prevail
Regarding his power Rocky was a wearing down type of fighter rather than a one punch ko artist like Liston... if you watch their fights and free yourself from your rather blind admiration for Marciano you would agree cause the evidence is there on screen.
Liston got floored by a very fast Ali right-hand... if you know anything about boxing you'll understand that its the punches that you don't see coming that have more effect than perhaps harder shots which you see coming. And by the way, Liston got up but the ref made a cockup and stopped the fight.
Admire Rocky all you want but listen to what other people have to say about him and you may learn something.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Listen, obvisely rocks my favorite fighter and the reason is because i think hes underated and one of the best. I obvisely have to defend him because hes myy favorite and i stand up to what i believe, I dont say stupid shit like hes invisible and i do let other people like u voice their opinions so then i can contrast and have a debate. I am defending him because i want people that dont know much about him to realize how underated he is and i try to make all my points legit. and i dont just tlak about marciano i talk abiout other fighters but right now the topic is marciano.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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You have the right to your opinion but you are saying that any other opinion that differs from yours is wrong and that is not very openminded or democratic. At the end of the day does it really matter if Marciano was the 3rd best heavy of all time or the 10th best?... or 20th?... if you like him it doesn't matter but you should be more open to the other Heavies and catch fights of people like Liston and you may well be surprised with what you see. I was very knowledgeable at 18 but I know a darn sight more now and if you carry on studying and watching boxing like you are then you should know more too when you're older. And I would never say I know it all because basically no one does and the more you learn about boxing the more you'll see that it has endless levels of history etc and a lot of it is often going to be just down to peoples personal opinions.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:I have the right ot na opinioon silkov. so what if i am only 18. i am very knowledgable for 18 and ur prob 40 and have a lot more experience but its still my opinion and maybe some things will change as i get older and more experienced
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Marciano Frazier
- Heavyweight
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I rate Rocky just outside the top 3, at #4. I think it would be reasonable to have him a little lower or a little higher. One thing I think strongly here is that most people either overrate or underrate Marciano significantly. A lot of his detractors seem to think he was an inept midget, while many of his most hard-core fans view him as a demi-god. I would consider myself a hard-core fan, but I'm trying hard to be objective, and as I see it, while his undefeated record is a great and unquestionable historical accomplishment, it is true that it is partly a product of circumstance. For instance, Joe Louis was fighting champions from the time he only had about 20 pro fights and was already fighting for the title with barely over 30, and continued on to have 71 in total. I have to imagine that if Marciano had had that many fights against that many champions and contenders over that long a period of time, he would've lost at least a couple times himself. I think, overall, that Louis' longevity and consistent dominance at the top of the division for such a gargantuan time period outweighs Marciano's own undeniably great accomplishments. I also think Muhammad Ali and George Foreman were greater than him, for comparable reasons, and I certainly wouldn't whine about ranking, say, Frazier or Holmes ahead of Marciano, either.
re
Jab---I gurantee I have seen more and read more about Marciano then you have, so don't try to tell me that I don't knoiw what I'm talking about just because you said something ridiculous and incorrect! Which is different for you as it is obvious if you think Rocky stayed away and boxed to get an advantage on an opponent...hell you don't need me to tell you that....Charley Goldman did it plenty if you would just pick up an old Ring mag, or two!
BB---I'm sorry, but silkov is pretty much correct and I'm not just saying this to make you angry, or upset you, but you see where I have Marciano ranked on my all-time list and I have never underrated him, but he was made to order for fighters like Liston and especially Foreman, both of whom I rate below Marciano, but could they have beaten the Rock...certainly...would it be as easy as some say...I doubt it very much, but Rock was never hit by someone like Liston and he was never hit by someone like Foreman, so anything could happen! It's good to defend your favorites, but you have to accept the bad with the good. I'm always defending Roy Jones, but I never say that he had a chin of iron because it would be flat out incorrect. My favorite of all-timen is Sam Langford, but I don't parade him like no one could touch him...he was probably the best that never held a world title, but he did not have the same abilities as a Jack Johnson and later fighters like Jack Dempsey would go on to say that he would never have fought Langford, but in saying that Dempsey was just being very respectful toward the old warrior, which is good, but to think that Dempsey was actually afraiud of Sam would just be plain guliability on my part!
BB---I'm sorry, but silkov is pretty much correct and I'm not just saying this to make you angry, or upset you, but you see where I have Marciano ranked on my all-time list and I have never underrated him, but he was made to order for fighters like Liston and especially Foreman, both of whom I rate below Marciano, but could they have beaten the Rock...certainly...would it be as easy as some say...I doubt it very much, but Rock was never hit by someone like Liston and he was never hit by someone like Foreman, so anything could happen! It's good to defend your favorites, but you have to accept the bad with the good. I'm always defending Roy Jones, but I never say that he had a chin of iron because it would be flat out incorrect. My favorite of all-timen is Sam Langford, but I don't parade him like no one could touch him...he was probably the best that never held a world title, but he did not have the same abilities as a Jack Johnson and later fighters like Jack Dempsey would go on to say that he would never have fought Langford, but in saying that Dempsey was just being very respectful toward the old warrior, which is good, but to think that Dempsey was actually afraiud of Sam would just be plain guliability on my part!
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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Don't tell me sorry. what is there to be soorry about?? i dont feel bad that my opinion is not agreed with. cause if ur sayin hes correct about where to place marciano than ur just siding with his opinion. there is no incorrect or correct. i feel my opinion is correct and he and u feel urs are. I do look at the objective for a lot of things. regarding marciano i am most biased towards marciano but i do look at the objective.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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The key here is when u rate them, just cause ones rated higher than the other doesnt mean that fighter could beat the less rated one. so like barry said earlier for example, if i rate marciano 3 and foreman 5 and liston 6, that doesnt mean foreman and liston cant beat marciano. its just marciano did more accomplishments than those two and their career deserves to be rated over anothers. so styles make fights. just cause joe louis is # 1 doesnt mean he could beat eveyrone, he could lose to a fighter thats not rated well but has a good style against him.
barry: dont be sour that I caught you saying silly things, like the one about hooks. 
I dont care how much you read. Only how much you understood. If you understood much then fine. Good job. Your ``guarantee`` is riduculous and I can see you speak in anger.
Second, please read carefully what I write. I did not mention the word box about Rocky. Either you read it too fast, or you are too furious to concentrate properly.
The discussion is basically closed when you bring in your vast reading of history etc. I couldnt care less. I am not about to start bragging about mine because it is irrelevant to what we are talking about.
It is good you have read a lot. And it is good you have your own opinions.
No point in getting into fights about who read more and childish stuff like that.
Now we can close this simply: you have your own opinion about Rocky Liston scenario. And I also wrote the way I would have imagined it going. Sicne we do not agree with each others point, I suggest we just agree to disagree. I will not be dragged into shouting matches about who read more, who saw more tapes who trained more fighters or who fought more fights.
You dont need to ``educate`` me about boxing. You would spend yout time in more usefull manner if you tried to reach the Brockton guy who started this thread, because he seems to have an even more idealised view of Marciano than I, while useing fewer arguments and doing it more on faith. Good luck.
I dont care how much you read. Only how much you understood. If you understood much then fine. Good job. Your ``guarantee`` is riduculous and I can see you speak in anger. Second, please read carefully what I write. I did not mention the word box about Rocky. Either you read it too fast, or you are too furious to concentrate properly.
The discussion is basically closed when you bring in your vast reading of history etc. I couldnt care less. I am not about to start bragging about mine because it is irrelevant to what we are talking about.
It is good you have read a lot. And it is good you have your own opinions.
No point in getting into fights about who read more and childish stuff like that.
Now we can close this simply: you have your own opinion about Rocky Liston scenario. And I also wrote the way I would have imagined it going. Sicne we do not agree with each others point, I suggest we just agree to disagree. I will not be dragged into shouting matches about who read more, who saw more tapes who trained more fighters or who fought more fights.
You dont need to ``educate`` me about boxing. You would spend yout time in more usefull manner if you tried to reach the Brockton guy who started this thread, because he seems to have an even more idealised view of Marciano than I, while useing fewer arguments and doing it more on faith. Good luck.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
barry one thing i dont like is when people ask why didnt he fight Nino Valdez??
the only reason people say that is because hes 6'3 215. not because of his ability. someone mentioned it earlier about Valdez and they dont rrealize that marciano did not fight him because Marciano fought better challengers in archie moore who outclassed valdez over 15 rounds in an eliminater. ezzard was the better challenger than nino. I have no doubt that Marciano would have had an easier fight with NIno than both moore and charles. So if Marciano did beat NIno, would he get more respect cause he beat a big heavyweight, rather than realizig he beat fighters with more skill and better fighters???
marciano was gonna fight bob satterfield a hard hitter, but satterfield got KOed by rex layne so marciano fought rex layne instead. just caus marciano didnt fight and beat a hard hitter like satterfield shouldnt hurt his rank cause he beat the fighter that beat satterfield. Layne was the tougher challenger just like archie was. no matter their age, and size
the only reason people say that is because hes 6'3 215. not because of his ability. someone mentioned it earlier about Valdez and they dont rrealize that marciano did not fight him because Marciano fought better challengers in archie moore who outclassed valdez over 15 rounds in an eliminater. ezzard was the better challenger than nino. I have no doubt that Marciano would have had an easier fight with NIno than both moore and charles. So if Marciano did beat NIno, would he get more respect cause he beat a big heavyweight, rather than realizig he beat fighters with more skill and better fighters???
marciano was gonna fight bob satterfield a hard hitter, but satterfield got KOed by rex layne so marciano fought rex layne instead. just caus marciano didnt fight and beat a hard hitter like satterfield shouldnt hurt his rank cause he beat the fighter that beat satterfield. Layne was the tougher challenger just like archie was. no matter their age, and size
re
Angry...at you...don't make me laugh! I was just pointing out yuour incorrect statement of how Marciano would stay away from a Liston, or Foreman for four, or five rounds...hell...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to read and know that Rocky was never a fighter who "Stayed away for x amount of round" against anyone, that is unless the person is just yapping bullshit that they might have heard someone else say at one time, which in itself is pretty funny. Sorry pal, but you have proven nothing and offered little!
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BB---Not only Ring magazine, but just about every other publication of the time wanted a Marciano-Valdez bout, but it was avoided for the strongest years of Valdes' career and then Moore came along and beat him. It wasn't Rocky that avoided him, it was Al Weill, but he was avoided and put on the back burner until another fighter (Moore) came along on beat him!