BoxRec

Ranking of boxers is based on past fights and achievement not future fights in my opinion

BubiScholz wrote:1 V.Klitschko
2 Brewster
3 Byrd
4 Krasniqi
5 Valuev
6 Rahman
7 Barrett
8 Peter
9 Ruiz
10 W.Klitschko

1) Chris Byrd

2) Vitali Klitschko

3) James Toney

4) John Ruiz

5) Lamon Brewster

6) Rahman/Barrett winner

7) Calvin Brock

8) Wladimir Klitschko

9) Sam Peter

10) Rahman/Barrett loser

sinan wrote:

BubiScholz wrote:1 V.Klitschko
2 Brewster
3 Byrd
4 Krasniqi
5 Valuev
6 Rahman
7 Barrett
8 Peter
9 Ruiz
10 W.Klitschko

Are you the real sinan?

BubiScholz wrote:Are you the real sinan?

Seems unlikely unless he has a fairly low opinion of himself.

My Top 30, no room for Skelton, Harrison for Sprott, yet.

1 Vitali Klitchsko
2 Chris Byrd
3 James Toney
4 Lamon Brewster
5 John Ruiz
6 Hasim Rahman
7 Vladimir Klitchsko
8 Calvin Brock
9 Samuel Peter
10 Nicolay Valauev
11 Monte Barret
12 Luan Krasniqi
13 Jameel McCline
14 DaVarryl Williamson
15 Corrie Sanders
16 Danny Williams
17 Mike Tyson
18 Andrew Golota
19 Henry Akinwande
20 David Tua
21 Tony Thompson
22 Fres Oquendo
23 Sinan Simal Sam
24 Serguei Lyakhovich
25 Juan Carlos Gomez
26 Kirk Johnson
27 Oleg Maskaev
28 Larry Donald
29 Yanqui Diaz
30 Dominick Guinn

Kit wrote:My Top 30, no room for Skelton, Harrison for Sprott, yet.

1 Vitali Klitchsko
2 Chris Byrd
3 James Toney
4 Lamon Brewster
5 John Ruiz
6 Hasim Rahman
7 Vladimir Klitchsko
8 Calvin Brock
9 Samuel Peter
10 Nicolay Valauev
11 Monte Barret
12 Luan Krasniqi
13 Jameel McCline
14 DaVarryl Williamson
15 Corrie Sanders
16 Danny Williams
17 Mike Tyson
18 Andrew Golota
19 Henry Akinwande
20 David Tua
21 Tony Thompson
22 Fres Oquendo
23 Sinan Simal Sam
24 Serguei Lyakhovich
25 Juan Carlos Gomez
26 Kirk Johnson
27 Oleg Maskaev
28 Larry Donald
29 Yanqui Diaz
30 Dominick Guinn

Sprott and Skelton are not much worse than Williams who is at least 10 places too high........

BubiScholz wrote:Sprott and Skelton are not much worse than Williams who is at least 10 places too high........

You're probably right. Problem is Williams rocketed into everybody's personal rankings by beating Tyson, but then he got battered by Klitschko in his next fight which makes it very difficult to rank him. We will know more after the Skelton fight really.

Chopping Right wrote:

BubiScholz wrote:Sprott and Skelton are not much worse than Williams who is at least 10 places too high........

You're probably right. Problem is Williams rocketed into everybody's personal rankings by beating Tyson, but then he got battered by Klitschko in his next fight which makes it very difficult to rank him. We will know more after the Skelton fight really.

I would rate him in any case behind Sinan Samil Sam.

Williams has beaten a top 10 guy at the time, Mike Tyson and lost to the current world number 1.

Sam since Beating Williams has lost to Krasniqi and comfortably to Gomez.

Although I see his fight with Skelton as a 50-50. Skelton is yet to mix with anyone near the top 30, so can not be ranked there.

jab wrote:Duh! IF not about the future, then what exactly are we talking about here?? The past?? We already know what happened in the past!!

Who beats who if htey fought now is what we are interested in. Right? IF we are interested onl yin what happend i nthe past, then we look for records.

Your logic bares no...well, logic. You rank fighters based on who you think they will beat and what you think they will do. You can only really base such lists fairly by using past facts, like who really has beaten who. Otherwise it's just a lot of nonsense. Using your system my list goes like this:

1. Nigel Rafferty
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Chris Byrd
4. Lamon Brewster
5. James Toney

steve689 wrote:

jab wrote:Duh! IF not about the future, then what exactly are we talking about here?? The past?? We already know what happened in the past!!

Who beats who if htey fought now is what we are interested in. Right? IF we are interested onl yin what happend i nthe past, then we look for records.

Your logic bares no...well, logic. You rank fighters based on who you think they will beat and what you think they will do. You can only really base such lists fairly by using past facts, like who really has beaten who. Otherwise it's just a lot of nonsense. Using your system my list goes like this:

1. Nigel Rafferty
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Chris Byrd
4. Lamon Brewster
5. James Toney

What? No Peter Buckley or Ernie Smith? Your ranking is a disgrace!

steve689 wrote:

jab wrote:Duh! IF not about the future, then what exactly are we talking about here?? The past?? We already know what happened in the past!!

Who beats who if htey fought now is what we are interested in. Right? IF we are interested onl yin what happend i nthe past, then we look for records.

Your logic bares no...well, logic. You rank fighters based on who you think they will beat and what you think they will do. You can only really base such lists fairly by using past facts, like who really has beaten who. Otherwise it's just a lot of nonsense. Using your system my list goes like this:

1. Nigel Rafferty
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Chris Byrd
4. Lamon Brewster
5. James Toney

Aha. Ok. Alright. Fine.
Well, if that is what you understood then no problem.

jab wrote:

Kevo wrote:But according to your rankings, Wlad would beat Brewster, who he has already lost to.

SO? If they fought again Wlad will win. And that is the way most boxing betting houses, federations, trainers and fans think as well. The past is irrelevant. IF we were to apply your thinking then we would have to put Byrd over Vitali as the favorite to win. And most sane people would know that is not a sane argument.

And most sane people wouldn't have Wlad as their no# 2 heavyweight.

If we were to use your thinking then Toney would have to be in your top ten, as he would start a betting favourite over Ruiz if they fought again.

Well Keno,

most sane people, which are doign the bet numbers will agree with it. Yo uare free to disagree. But if you see a fight og Wlad vs any other guy made you will be sure to see him fsavorite by all betting houses.

And Phoney Toney wont be a favorite because he cannot fight Ruiz for the WBA. He is banned so he doesnt count TODAY. The ratings are subject to change. In fact all federations make a new one every month. Duh!

IF you talk of the first Phoney vs Ruiz fight you would be right: he wa sa favorite. But his chaeting got him stripped.

I will say this: if you disagree very strongly with this fine. If a fight comes up and you see Wlad favorite in betting and you really, really believe he is not, then by all means, bet against him. If you are right you make some money off it. If not, then well, you lose some money.
Hint: dont bet more than you can afford to lose.

This is the money test: put your money where your head and/or your heart is. When you think like this (the way bettors and betting houses do) then you assesments are bound to change a little. Try it a few times and you will see what I mean. And you dont have to bet large amounts to get the feeling. Try first with small amounts that wont hurt you if you lose.
As a matter of fact, never bet more than you can afford to lose without caring.

Cheers,

Give it a try,


Jab

Neri1983 wrote:

steve689 wrote:

jab wrote:Duh! IF not about the future, then what exactly are we talking about here?? The past?? We already know what happened in the past!!

Who beats who if htey fought now is what we are interested in. Right? IF we are interested onl yin what happend i nthe past, then we look for records.

Your logic bares no...well, logic. You rank fighters based on who you think they will beat and what you think they will do. You can only really base such lists fairly by using past facts, like who really has beaten who. Otherwise it's just a lot of nonsense. Using your system my list goes like this:

1. Nigel Rafferty
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Chris Byrd
4. Lamon Brewster
5. James Toney

What? No Peter Buckley or Ernie Smith? Your ranking is a disgrace!

No because they are not Heavyweights...Dave Clarke is my No. 6 by the way

jab wrote:Well Keno,

And Phoney Toney wont be a favorite because he cannot fight Ruiz for the WBA. He is banned so he doesnt count TODAY. The ratings are subject to change. In fact all federations make a new one every month. Duh!

IF you talk of the first Phoney vs Ruiz fight you would be right: he wa sa favorite. But his chaeting got him stripped.

Duh! All of this happened in the past, which, since past results isn't part of the criteria for forming your top ten, should count for nothing.

According to your top ten, Wlad would be betting favourite IF he fought one of the boxers ranked below him. Well in that case, IF Toney fought Ruiz again he would be the betting favourite. See what i'm getting at?

steve689 wrote:

Neri1983 wrote:

steve689 wrote: Your logic bares no...well, logic. You rank fighters based on who you think they will beat and what you think they will do. You can only really base such lists fairly by using past facts, like who really has beaten who. Otherwise it's just a lot of nonsense. Using your system my list goes like this:

1. Nigel Rafferty
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Chris Byrd
4. Lamon Brewster
5. James Toney

What? No Peter Buckley or Ernie Smith? Your ranking is a disgrace!

No because they are not Heavyweights...Dave Clarke is my No. 6 by the way

Sorry steve i forgot we were being rational and logical in our rankings

Kevo wrote:

jab wrote:Well Keno,

And Phoney Toney wont be a favorite because he cannot fight Ruiz for the WBA. He is banned so he doesnt count TODAY. The ratings are subject to change. In fact all federations make a new one every month. Duh!

IF you talk of the first Phoney vs Ruiz fight you would be right: he wa sa favorite. But his chaeting got him stripped.

Duh! All of this happened in the past, which, since past results isn't part of the criteria for forming your top ten, should count for nothing.

According to your top ten, Wlad would be betting favourite IF he fought one of the boxers ranked below him. Well in that case, IF Toney fought Ruiz again he would be the betting favourite. See what i'm getting at?

I cant follow yout thought here. Help me a bit. Phoney is suspended for the next few months. So he cannot fight anybody today, nor next months, nor the next 3 months. So why should he figure in a ranking of likely results today? Toney is not even a hypothetical fight.
ITs like saying Lewis should be a top fight. Well, yes, he could be, but the guy is not fighting due to retirement. Toney cannot fight for 3 months due to the drug ban. That is why he doesnt figure in my list. See what I mean? Ibeabuchi could probabaly whip Byrd again. Should I include him in a list of likely results today when he is i nthe loony bin?

You see this is how the WBA, WBC and IBF got into the mess they're in. Maybe their ratings AREN't dodgy, maybe it's just really hard

jab wrote:

Kevo wrote:

jab wrote:Well Keno,

And Phoney Toney wont be a favorite because he cannot fight Ruiz for the WBA. He is banned so he doesnt count TODAY. The ratings are subject to change. In fact all federations make a new one every month. Duh!

IF you talk of the first Phoney vs Ruiz fight you would be right: he wa sa favorite. But his chaeting got him stripped.

Duh! All of this happened in the past, which, since past results isn't part of the criteria for forming your top ten, should count for nothing.

According to your top ten, Wlad would be betting favourite IF he fought one of the boxers ranked below him. Well in that case, IF Toney fought Ruiz again he would be the betting favourite. See what i'm getting at?

I cant follow yout thought here. Help me a bit. Phoney is suspended for the next few months. So he cannot fight anybody today, nor next months, nor the next 3 months. So why should he figure in a ranking of likely results today? Toney is not even a hypothetical fight.
ITs like saying Lewis should be a top fight. Well, yes, he could be, but the guy is not fighting due to retirement. Toney cannot fight for 3 months due to the drug ban. That is why he doesnt figure in my list. See what I mean? Ibeabuchi could probabaly whip Byrd again. Should I include him in a list of likely results today when he is i nthe loony bin?

A 3 month layoff is NOTHING in today's boxing world. Look at how many months it's been between Vitali's fights . . . .or most HWs. Should Vitali not be ranked b/c he can't fight until September??

jab wrote:Duh! IF not about the future, then what exactly are we talking about here?? The past?? We already know what happened in the past!!

Who beats who if htey fought now is what we are interested in. Right? IF we are interested onl yin what happend i nthe past, then we look for records.

You're mental. Who ranks boxing on what they think could happen in the future? Imagine the uproar if the alphabet boys worked in that manner! You can only ever rank on the basis of what HAS happened.

jeej,

the best argument you can make is an insult?
I wont stoop to your level because I have respect for this site.

have you ever heard of a concept like respect?

Dempsey, Vitali is BSing with his injuries. He is just trying to land bigger money fights and avoid signing with King.
Did you see how quick he was to challenge Brewster? And after delaying the Rahman mandatory for so long.

I dont think he is afraid of Rahman, but he definitely would like easier fights, like Brewster and not to have anything to do with King. Cant blame him. King is a disaster for a boxers career, despite the money he brings.
Lewis also avinded King for a long time. And not because he was afraid of Kings slave fighters.

jab wrote:jeej,

the best argument you can make is an insult?
I wont stoop to your level because I have respect for this site.

have you ever heard of a concept like respect?

Wasn't like I called you a c*nt or anything!!!

If having respect means not being able to express my thoughts on your posts then the whole concept of a discussion forum clearly goes out of the window.

Have you heard of a concept like being patronised?