BoxRec

im a quarter irish John buit find the constant bringing up the politics by the irish as a reponse pathetic. some of the irish wanted protection form thier own but more didnt. So we cant win either way.

you brought politics up mate. no one else.

J wrote:im a quarter irish John buit find the constant bringing up the politics by the irish as a reponse pathetic. some of the irish wanted protection form thier own but more didnt. So we cant win either way.

you brought politics up mate. no one else.

If you re-read what I said, I didn't actually bring up politics. I've got no interest in politics, at all. I'm talking about sporting history (and I admit I didn't make this clear in my original message) and gave two of what I consider to be very good examples to support this.

I don't consider Ireland to be part of Britain or the UK and don't like it when other people assume that it is, but I'm not a bitter political freak. My point is based on my experience of English fans in my lifetime, and nothing more. I don't see anything wrong with what I said and feel I gave good reason to support it.

johnswan1 wrote:

Coconut wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:I'm no hypocrit J. I said I'd always boo the English anthem and it's because of a mixture of 1) the history between the countries 2) having a laugh and 3) the fact that SOME English fans become total louts

You could replace the word 'English' for 'Australian' and it would still be just as true.

Disrepecting national anthems is tawdry, it's not justified by 'history' (although maybe by current events - wars, etc), it's not justified by 'having a laugh', and it's not justified by lowering yourself to the level of the lowest common denominator.

What's the big fornicating deal though, it's a song. Maybe if the English showed some respect towards others they'd get respect in return. I'm not going to ramble on too much about this but just a couple of examples:

1) The English rugby team at Lansdowne Road refusing to stand to the other side of the Irish players. There was a red carpet out in place for the Irish president to walk on and meet the players. The English refused to move from where they were so our president had to leave the carpet and go onto the grass to meet them. Yeah hardly a big deal having to leave red carpet to go onto grass but the point is disrespect.

2) The English fans who rioted at Lansdowne road a few years back because they were losing 1-0. They rained missiles and seats down on top of the Irish fans (including families and children) because they were losing and the match was abandoned.

I know this all represents a minority, but seriously, how do you then call it disgraceful if the Irish go on to boo their anthem?!

Well, the rugby thing was slightly antagonistic but they'd trotted out and weren't told which way to go. Once esconsed they refused to move. Not the most tactful but asking an international second row to focus on politics five minutes before a key championship game is a bit silly.

The England fans thing, yep, agreed, it's not that great.

But you yourself make the point that this is a minority, and it's a minority that most people would happily wash their hands of.

One of my old clubs was re-founded by a guy tortured and killed by the IRA. Does that give me a right to boo the Irish national anthem? Does it fornicate. Nothing does.

no you cunningly said the "history between the two countires" which is what the poatato famine or the norht south divide and our invoilvement inhernttenly political decisions both.

whateve rmat ei have nothing agianst the irish but i suggest you arent going to gewt a good reposne fomr real boxing fans on here when you say you would boo god save the Quenn.
Which incidently is the BRITISH NATIONAL anthem.

Land of hope glory is the english national anthem fornicate knows why they dont play that though. So you dont even know it but youre booing the collective countires national anthem not just the english.

johnswan1 wrote:Despite cheering for Ricky, I would always boo the English national anthem if I was home in Ireland. Must say I wouldn't boo any others though. I was surrounded by drunken English louts trying to bully people into going along with their chants of "England, England". A few common scouses sitting behind me in particular were doing my head in with comments such as "I love Ricky Hatton because he's sound" and (aimed at those who weren't joining in their ridiculous loutish chants) "I fornicating paid extra for these tickets so I could enjoy the atmosphere so come on you fuckers and sing with us". Then a guy with a bad hairlip and bad attitude to match started standing up waving his hands in the air and trying to get chants going with a group up in the upper tier who were lively - the mongoloid little prick was too stupid to realise that they were a bunch of Aussies.

Is that 'common scousers? If so then dont worry, we aint all like that

J wrote:no you cunningly said the "history between the two countires" which is what the poatato famine or the norht south divide and our invoilvement inhernttenly political decisions both.

whateve rmat ei have nothing agianst the irish but i suggest you arent going to gewt a good reposne fomr real boxing fans on here when you say you would boo god save the Quenn.
Which incidently is the BRITISH NATIONAL anthem.

Land of hope glory is the english national anthem fornicate knows why they dont play that though. So you dont even know it but youre booing the collective countires national anthem not just the english.

It may be the official anthem of Britain (and used to be in Ireland too) but it has certainly been adopted more by the English. The Scottish and Welsh (who we seem to have a good relationship with) have adopted their own songs. Still, I'm not getting into this any further. Basically, I didn't "cunningly" do anything, and you were very quick onto the politcal jibes yourself with your "implode" comment.

I'll still cheer on British fighters whom I'm fond of and I'll still cheer for Liverpool in football and consider myself a loyal fan. This is the same for most people in Ireland so call us hypocrites if you like but when it comes down to Ireland V England, we'll always cheer for our own and make it as uncomfortable for you guys as possible, and if that includes booing God Save The Queen, so be it. We'll always do this and you'll still hear people say the Irish are among the best fans in the world.

The difference is that we don't usually become aggressive with opposing fans and we won't bully each other into using aggression. We'll take Sport for what it is and enjoy it and we'll let our fans mix with each other and shout for their teams without having to worry too much for their safety.

johnswan1 wrote:I would always boo the English national anthem if I was home in Ireland. Must say I wouldn't boo any others though.

Glad to see the Celts STILL have a chip on their shoulder....

whatever mate i dont really care. i certinaly percieved your "history" comment as being a referral to the past political climate maybe Im wrong. If I am please do clarify what you meant.

THe only fans im aware of a ftoball based crowds who bahve like this, yet you label the ENGLISH period.

Im a rugby fan as well and cant assure you i have not been as you describe at any sporting event ive been to and find your gerneralisations a tad offensive,

and also to use this as an excuse to boo a national anthem piss poor so do others by the look of it when you yourself are moaning about others behaviour. Sorry if you dont like that but i certainly believe you should show respect to to others national anthem.

i do think you have a case of double standards on this issue.

johnswan1 wrote:I would always boo the English national anthem if I was home in Ireland. Must say I wouldn't boo any others though.

Glad to see the Celts STILL have a chip on their shoulder....

I have to say, the amount of stick the English take in general is an absolute disgrace really. It wouldn't be allowed towards any other country, and frankly it’s the celtic nations that are the worst of all.

Sure sure sure.. we might have been swines if you go back in history but there isn’t a single Welsh/Irish/or Scottish person alive today that can GENUINELY point the finger at “The English” for something wrong with their own country. Its just easier to blame a successful nation than admit ones own continued failings.

Things that happened hundreds of years ago, the celtic nations harp on about as if it were during the 1990s…

The Germans were gassing a few million Jews not 50 years ago, yet can you have ago about them for that in the international press or sporting arenas? No way!

Anti-Welsh/Irish/Scottish comments = RACIST! (e.g. Anne Robinson)

Anti-English sentiment = Absolutely fine! (e.g. Max Boyce, Stereophonics, David Campese)

Weird that isn’t…

well said.

Loftgrov, you're a little quick off the mark there, this debate isn't about politics.

J, as I already said, the history I spoke of is recent sporting history and I already made reference to the English rugby players and the English football fans for incidents at Lansdowne Road in Ireland. fornicate that, I won't respect their national anthem while that sort of behaviour is still fresh in my mind and if the fans get offended over it as easily you claim to, well then it is the perfect wind up for you all. I don't hate English people or hold English people today responsible for what happened all those years ago like a lot of my fellow countrymen do.

Booing the national anthems is pantomine stuff so I wouldn't get so worked up about it. Everybody saw Tszyu get a good reception after the fight so it wasn't a case of there being pure hatred at the MEN (although the English guys immediately next to me really were acting in hatred, even though I doubted any of them had ever seen or heard of Tszyu before the fight was announced and had no reason to hate him apart from the fact that he was fighting their man).

I can't believe that you would be offended and angered that the Irish would boo your anthem. You must be having a laugh.

i think its bad manners mate.

And shows a lack of respect.

if you truly were referirng to the rugby and football "history" then i misunderstood your premise and apologise. Though i have my doubts to be honest that was whhat you meants in the outset and you certinaly didnt explain it when you made that coment as such hence my thinking.

Still for the sake of argument and keeping the ugly head of politics out of it then Ill take your word for it.

However do you not feel that by booing the national anthem you actually are putting yourself in the same category as those you are criticising.


by thew way, like i say i have nothing aginst the irish, i have irish blood, 2 of my best mates are wlesh and another scots. Personally i just find generalistation and stereotypes a negative thing in life, and to apply to a whole nation is just plain stupid because will discuss to breakdown such thinking.

Loftgroov wrote:
Sure sure sure.. we might have been swines if you go back in history but there isn’t a single Welsh/Irish/or Scottish person alive today that can GENUINELY point the finger at “The English” for something wrong with their own country. Its just easier to blame a successful nation than admit ones own continued failings.

Ok, something wrong with my country. The troubles up the North are a big something wrong. And I can GENUINELY point the finger at "The English" for their part in it. Yes I can. I'm not bitter towards them because of that but there you go, I'm just proving you wrong.

“Offended” is the wrong word. It’s just the double standards that bother me, as alluded to in my post.

Whats ok for Ireland to say about England is NOT ok for England to say about Ireland etc…

What is all this about a red carpet at Lansdowne and the English team refusing to step off it to let the President walk by? That sounds like a right load of cobblers quite frankly. Probably some stupid tale dreamt up by another typical “English-hating” Irishman who.. having seen the English team behave impeccably…felt compelled to invent something.

I didn’t notice it on any footage I’ve ever seen, nor have I ever read about it.

johnswan1 wrote:

Loftgroov wrote:
Sure sure sure.. we might have been swines if you go back in history but there isn’t a single Welsh/Irish/or Scottish person alive today that can GENUINELY point the finger at “The English” for something wrong with their own country. Its just easier to blame a successful nation than admit ones own continued failings.

Ok, something wrong with my country. The troubles up the North are a big something wrong. And I can GENUINELY point the finger at "The English" for their part in it. Yes I can. I'm not bitter towards them because of that but there you go, I'm just proving you wrong.

And you live in the north do you? More like the southern tip of the Republic probably… miles from anything, and hence little to do with you.

Furthermore I think you’ll find much of those ‘troubles’ today are between Northern Irish Catholics and Northern Irish Protestants. I don’t think too many English are there slinging petrol bombs for fun…

Only those people can sort themselves out.

J wrote:i think its bad manners mate.

And shows a lack of respect.

if you truly were referirng to the rugby and football "history" then i misunderstood your premise and apologise. Though i have my doubts to be honest that was whhat you meants in the outset and you certinaly didnt explain it when you made that coment as such hence my thinking.

Still for the sake of argument and keeping the ugly head of politics out of it then Ill take your word for it.

However do you not feel that by booing the national anthem you actually are putting yourself in the same category as those you are criticising.


by thew way, like i say i have nothing aginst the irish, i have irish blood, 2 of my best mates are wlesh and another scots. Personally i just find generalistation and stereotypes a negative thing in life, and to apply to a whole nation is just plain stupid because will discuss to breakdown such thinking.

I am not in the same category as those I am criticising. Booing the anthem is optional and is panto and adds to the atmosphere. Yes, it's disrespectful but I don't see it as a big deal. What I am criticising is those who bully others into doing what they want to do and who want to be aggressive towards somebody just because they support the opposition. Fans should be able to shout for who they want to and enjoy the event without having some fornicator wanting to thump their head in because they support somebody else. Back home one can do this. If I started cheering for Tszyu the other night, I know it would have kicked off where I was. I'm just speaking from my experiences over here.

Loftgroov wrote:“Offended” is the wrong word. It’s just the double standards that bother me, as alluded to in my post.

Whats ok for Ireland to say about England is NOT ok for England to say about Ireland etc…

What is all this about a red carpet at Lansdowne and the English team refusing to step off it to let the President walk by? That sounds like a right load of cobblers quite frankly. Probably some stupid tale dreamt up by another typical “English-hating” Irishman who.. having seen the English team behave impeccably…felt compelled to invent something.

I didn’t notice it on any footage I’ve ever seen, nor have I ever read about it.

Well you obviously didn't see the moments before the game then you thick pudendum so don't comment on something you know nothing about.

johnswan1 wrote:

J wrote:i think its bad manners mate.

And shows a lack of respect.

if you truly were referirng to the rugby and football "history" then i misunderstood your premise and apologise. Though i have my doubts to be honest that was whhat you meants in the outset and you certinaly didnt explain it when you made that coment as such hence my thinking.

Still for the sake of argument and keeping the ugly head of politics out of it then Ill take your word for it.

However do you not feel that by booing the national anthem you actually are putting yourself in the same category as those you are criticising.


by thew way, like i say i have nothing aginst the irish, i have irish blood, 2 of my best mates are wlesh and another scots. Personally i just find generalistation and stereotypes a negative thing in life, and to apply to a whole nation is just plain stupid because will discuss to breakdown such thinking.

I am not in the same category as those I am criticising. Booing the anthem is optional and is panto and adds to the atmosphere. Yes, it's disrespectful but I don't see it as a big deal. What I am criticising is those who bully others into doing what they want to do and who want to be aggressive towards somebody just because they support the opposition. Fans should be able to shout for who they want to and enjoy the event without having some fornicator wanting to thump their head in because they support somebody else. Back home one can do this. If I started cheering for Tszyu the other night, I know it would have kicked off where I was. I'm just speaking from my experiences over here.

you are in my book mate and i can assure you if i was there and you bood the english national anthem sat next to me you'd get told to shut up.

oi also find it hypocrticial that you are getitng your knocker sin a twist aobut standign on the correct carpet blah blah, cos its disprespectful but its ok to boo a national anthem.,

you really are digging yourself a hole and covering it in as quickly as you can. lets hope you have to hold your breath soon so we can move on from this hey.

johnswan1 wrote:

J wrote:i think its bad manners mate.

And shows a lack of respect.

if you truly were referirng to the rugby and football "history" then i misunderstood your premise and apologise. Though i have my doubts to be honest that was whhat you meants in the outset and you certinaly didnt explain it when you made that coment as such hence my thinking.

Still for the sake of argument and keeping the ugly head of politics out of it then Ill take your word for it.

However do you not feel that by booing the national anthem you actually are putting yourself in the same category as those you are criticising.


by thew way, like i say i have nothing aginst the irish, i have irish blood, 2 of my best mates are wlesh and another scots. Personally i just find generalistation and stereotypes a negative thing in life, and to apply to a whole nation is just plain stupid because will discuss to breakdown such thinking.

I am not in the same category as those I am criticising. Booing the anthem is optional and is panto and adds to the atmosphere. Yes, it's disrespectful but I don't see it as a big deal. What I am criticising is those who bully others into doing what they want to do and who want to be aggressive towards somebody just because they support the opposition. Fans should be able to shout for who they want to and enjoy the event without having some fornicator wanting to thump their head in because they support somebody else. Back home one can do this. If I started cheering for Tszyu the other night, I know it would have kicked off where I was. I'm just speaking from my experiences over here.

That's perhaps fair enough. I did worry for those Aussies in the yellow gear, and I really think that if had gone to the cards and Hatton hadn't got the nod then the place would have been shredded.

But the problem isn't really an English thing, I think it's a football thing, as Hatton's fans are mainly either City fans or other footy fans who have happened upon Hatton.

If you look at how the English crowds behave in other sports there's no comparison. Any fans, come to that. The only time I've ever seen any trouble along national lines at any other sporting event has involved South Africans. And, even though I'm married to one, there's a lot of truth in the old song...

johnswan1 wrote:

J wrote:i think its bad manners mate.

And shows a lack of respect.

if you truly were referirng to the rugby and football "history" then i misunderstood your premise and apologise. Though i have my doubts to be honest that was whhat you meants in the outset and you certinaly didnt explain it when you made that coment as such hence my thinking.

Still for the sake of argument and keeping the ugly head of politics out of it then Ill take your word for it.

However do you not feel that by booing the national anthem you actually are putting yourself in the same category as those you are criticising.


by thew way, like i say i have nothing aginst the irish, i have irish blood, 2 of my best mates are wlesh and another scots. Personally i just find generalistation and stereotypes a negative thing in life, and to apply to a whole nation is just plain stupid because will discuss to breakdown such thinking.

I am not in the same category as those I am criticising. Booing the anthem is optional and is panto and adds to the atmosphere. Yes, it's disrespectful but I don't see it as a big deal. What I am criticising is those who bully others into doing what they want to do and who want to be aggressive towards somebody just because they support the opposition. Fans should be able to shout for who they want to and enjoy the event without having some fornicator wanting to thump their head in because they support somebody else. Back home one can do this. If I started cheering for Tszyu the other night, I know it would have kicked off where I was. I'm just speaking from my experiences over here.

That's perhaps fair enough. I did worry for those Aussies in the yellow gear, and I really think that if had gone to the cards and Hatton hadn't got the nod then the place would have been shredded.

But the problem isn't really an English thing, I think it's a football thing, as Hatton's fans are mainly either City fans or other footy fans who have happened upon Hatton.

If you look at how the English crowds behave in other sports there's no comparison. Any fans, come to that. The only time I've ever seen any trouble along national lines at any other sporting event has involved South Africans. And, even though I'm married to one, there's a lot of truth in the old song...

johnswan1 wrote:

Loftgroov wrote:“Offended” is the wrong word. It’s just the double standards that bother me, as alluded to in my post.

Whats ok for Ireland to say about England is NOT ok for England to say about Ireland etc…

What is all this about a red carpet at Lansdowne and the English team refusing to step off it to let the President walk by? That sounds like a right load of cobblers quite frankly. Probably some stupid tale dreamt up by another typical “English-hating” Irishman who.. having seen the English team behave impeccably…felt compelled to invent something.

I didn’t notice it on any footage I’ve ever seen, nor have I ever read about it.

Well you obviously didn't see the moments before the game then you thick pudendum so don't comment on something you know nothing about.

i think the only person being a thick pudendum at the moment John is YOU mate.

then again you are Irish.

J wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:

J wrote:i think its bad manners mate.

And shows a lack of respect.

if you truly were referirng to the rugby and football "history" then i misunderstood your premise and apologise. Though i have my doubts to be honest that was whhat you meants in the outset and you certinaly didnt explain it when you made that coment as such hence my thinking.

Still for the sake of argument and keeping the ugly head of politics out of it then Ill take your word for it.

However do you not feel that by booing the national anthem you actually are putting yourself in the same category as those you are criticising.


by thew way, like i say i have nothing aginst the irish, i have irish blood, 2 of my best mates are wlesh and another scots. Personally i just find generalistation and stereotypes a negative thing in life, and to apply to a whole nation is just plain stupid because will discuss to breakdown such thinking.

I am not in the same category as those I am criticising. Booing the anthem is optional and is panto and adds to the atmosphere. Yes, it's disrespectful but I don't see it as a big deal. What I am criticising is those who bully others into doing what they want to do and who want to be aggressive towards somebody just because they support the opposition. Fans should be able to shout for who they want to and enjoy the event without having some fornicator wanting to thump their head in because they support somebody else. Back home one can do this. If I started cheering for Tszyu the other night, I know it would have kicked off where I was. I'm just speaking from my experiences over here.

you are in my book mate and i can assure you if i was there and you bood the english national anthem sat next to me you'd get told to shut up.

oi also find it hypocrticial that you are getitng your knocker sin a twist aobut standign on the correct carpet blah blah, cos its disprespectful but its ok to boo a national anthem.,

you really are digging yourself a hole and covering it in as quickly as you can. lets hope you have to hold your breath soon so we can move on from this hey.

Your anthem is booed because of your behaviour. We don't boo other anthems, so does that not prove my point? I gave two examples of bad behaviour and disrespect towards the Irish by the English which in my opinion justifies our booing of your anthem. We only boo it and show our disrespect because of the behaviour of some of your countrymen. I don't think you're understanding the point here.

God these boards have really gone into the shit

One reason why the Irish will boo the English anthem - your countrymen let you down.

Ireland's February 15, 1995 soccer fixture with England at the Lansdowne Road stadium in Dublin was abandoned after rioting organised by fascist groups. When Ireland scored the first goal after 22 minutes, English fans chanting “No surrender to the IRA” unleashed a hail of missiles on Irish fans and invaded the pitch.

After 20 minutes of disturbances, the match was abandoned and the ground cleared of Irish fans. A hard core of English supporters stayed in the stadium fighting riot police for a further 90 minutes, leading to 40 arrests and 20 serious injuries.

johnswan1 wrote:One reason why the Irish will boo the English anthem - your countrymen let you down.

Ireland's February 15, 1995 soccer fixture with England at the Lansdowne Road stadium in Dublin was abandoned after rioting organised by fascist groups. When Ireland scored the first goal after 22 minutes, English fans chanting “No surrender to the IRA” unleashed a hail of missiles on Irish fans and invaded the pitch.

After 20 minutes of disturbances, the match was abandoned and the ground cleared of Irish fans. A hard core of English supporters stayed in the stadium fighting riot police for a further 90 minutes, leading to 40 arrests and 20 serious injuries.

John, so far you've quoted a couple of incedents at football games over the last decade and Martin Johnson being belligerent. I don't think this is enough to warrant your stance. You have to realise that the anthem represents the nation, but you also acknowledge that the element you dislike is not representative of the nation.

The English are often the target for other nations because of their colonial past and their perceived arrogance. This is basically the root of the vast majority of anti-English activity for most, not a few idiots at a football game ten years ago.