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Re: Audley's next opponents
Posted: 27 Jun 2005, 15:05
by Syntax Error
Hesketh wrote:This is a quote from Audley's insightful interview with Des Lynam over their strawberries and cream the other day:
I am planning to go again in August again in the States and then October and December and as long as I keep winning I am going to get the opportunity and hopefully summer time next year will be a title shot.
So taking that at face value, who does he need to fight in August, October and December that would genuinely prepare him for a fight next year with a Klitschko, Byrd or Toney? Assuming US-based fighters only I'm thinking he needs someone like Ray Austin or Friday Ahunanya next, then a guy like Oleg Maskaev or Davarryl Williamson in October, followed by a Jameel McCline, Fres Oquendo, Shannon Briggs or similar in December. Those are realistically the best available fighters that he can make fights with this year. I know Harrison has been talk of meeting Sam Peter or Calvin Brock in the autumn, but I think that's more to publically associate his name with those guys, because while they are working their own way to title shots why would they be interested in Harrison? It will be very interesting to see who the August opponent is, it better not be Billy Zumbrun!
Audley Harrison fight 4 times in one year?!?!?!?!?!?!!?
You cannot be serious!!!! :P
That will never happen!!!
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 03:28
by Hesketh Vampire
I was thinking, maybe if Harrison hadn't won his gold, maybe just a bronze, or just plain nothing at Sydney, and he hadn't become the BBC's favourite person, then maybe he would have based himself in the US from the off. Probably would have made better progress, without worrying about topping BBC cards in his first fight and explaining the difference between Mike Middleton and Mike Tyson to Gary Richardson. Just a thought.
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 04:02
by Slapsie Maxie
I think you are right. AH was the subject of massive overhype, but I don't think he was a victim of it, more he was its source or at least equally culpable
I see the same happening with Amir Khan.
It is very easy to parlay Olympic success into hype, but equally difficult to turn that into a successful pro-career as we have seen with so many gold medallists droping by the wayside after glittering am' careers.
Even Joe Public with its limited knowledge of boxing is only going to buy into the hype for a short time as the Beeb found out and ITV are about to find out
Slapsie
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 04:19
by nickd
Hesketh wrote:I seem to recall Frank never had a good word to say about Lennox Lewis either, which also smacked of sour grapes. But then when the best heavies you are given are Herbie Hide and Danny Williams then maybe you are entitled to get a little tetchy. He missed out on this Povetkin character too.
Allegedly never has a good word to say about any fighter thats not in his stable basically. Its beyond pathetic.
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 04:20
by Hesketh Vampire
Slapsie Maxie wrote:I see the same happening with Amir Khan.
Good post. I'm hoping with Amir going with Frankie W though he won't have to top the card every time. There will be unnecessary over-excitement though.
BTW - Khan is currently in Havana, Cuba - not his gym in Manchester, the little slacker.
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 13:25
by jomothepure
I have a bad feeling any form of British round-robin thing has and always will leave out Audrey.
As much as I hate to say it, i think Skelton may beat a Danny Williams who turns up looking like a cross between butterbean and jabba the hut.
Skelton then may give Gammer his mandatory whilst Sprott fights Vidoz, then a Sprott-Skelton II whether Sprott wins that one or not.
Hope Danny can prove this preminition wrong tho.
I really don't think Audrey is in THAT bad a pos. If he could fight someone like Guinn for an easy win and bit of state-side kudos in Aug or Oct, I really think he could beat Brock quite easily. And I saidbefore Ankinwande would at least make Audrey move a bit and throw more than the usual 2.3 punches per round.
Also, imagine An Audrey-Valuev match-up! That could be quite interesting actually. In a "I like Hatti Jaques in lycra" sort of interesting.
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 13:33
by Hesketh Vampire
I think Audley is all done now at domestic level, there is probably no reason for him to fight in the UK again in the 12-24 months unfortunately.
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 13:37
by jamesmcdonnell
bradinho wrote:C'mon within today's HW division age seems to be no factor, you can box til your 40.
"Don't judge a fighter by his chronological age, but better by the number of fights/heavy blows he has had..."
How many wars has Audley been in? None. He has no scar tissue around the eyes etc. and has not been KO'ed he has a lot of good years in him
Given Audley's age I dont believe he can afford to bide his time. The time is now.
[/quote]
Nonsense. Most heavyweights are well past their best by 36-37, it's only a few guys who are still in their prime.
Audley relies on his footwork and reflexes a lot, those things tend to go fastest with age, the fighters who tend to have longest careers are the big punchers, because punch power levels out slower movement and reflexes.
Audley is at or near his peak physically, and he now needs to get some proper fights under his belt before challenging for a title.
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 13:45
by Hesketh Vampire
I think "mileage" is a factor though, the amount of wear and tear a fighter has suffered. Lennox was a good example of a well-preserved heavyweight late-on in his career, because his style and skill-level helped avoid the wars.
Johnny Nelson is another well-preserved type, although he may have taken "avoiding wars" to the extreme.
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 13:52
by jomothepure
On that basis, Chris Byrds will still be going when he's 80
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 13:54
by Hesketh Vampire
jomothepure wrote:On that basis, Chris Byrds will still be going when he's 80
Rewatch his fights with Ibeabuchi and Wladi Klitschko, they put a few miles on for sure.
Plus he is slowing down a little these days and taking more shots. Unfortunately Chris only ever had speed and skill, no power or reach to deter opponents. That problem is catching up with him now.
Posted: 28 Jun 2005, 14:09
by jomothepure
Hesketh wrote:jomothepure wrote:On that basis, Chris Byrds will still be going when he's 80
Rewatch his fights with Ibeabuchi and Wladi Klitschko, they put a few miles on for sure.
Plus he is slowing down a little these days and taking more shots. Unfortunately Chris only ever had speed and skill, no power or reach to deter opponents. That problem is catching up with him now.
Hence the less than collossal workload he and dick kong are creating for him these days.
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by the by, pure drivling useless info, but vaguely Audrey related (more sop than Byrd anyway) - Richel Hersisa has had 3 chumps post-Audrey - Boxrec have his weight recorded as being 2 stone lighter for these than his near 240 vs Aud. Has anyone seen him recently? Can't say he was exactly anorexic for that fight
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 05:50
by ABA Boxing
Audley is a Novice Pro at British level who has not won a British Title or European Title for what ever reasons there are!
An olympic medal is a great acheivment & a Gold one as well, but take that away and what do you have?
A 34 year old prospect with a unbeaten 17-0 record?
All a medal gives a Pro boxer is better pay days in there first few fights and a hell of alot of presure from the press and big expectations from the public!!
Being Olympic champion gave Audley the perfect platform and makes him extremely marketable, but that is only for so long.
The public want a new Lewis and are looking to Harrison to be that person. I think we have to look else where.
Harrison will plod along and lose a fight against someone who is not top ten & fade away into the night wondering why it all went wrong & how come he didnt get into the hall of fame!
If he proves me wrong great
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 06:00
by nickd
ABA Boxing wrote:Audley is a Novice Pro at British level who has not won a British Title or European Title for what ever reasons there are!
An olympic medal is a great acheivment & a Gold one as well, but take that away and what do you have?
A 34 year old prospect with a unbeaten 17-0 record?
All a medal gives a Pro boxer is better pay days in there first few fights and a hell of alot of presure from the press and big expectations from the public!!
Being Olympic champion gave Audley the perfect platform and makes him extremely marketable, but that is only for so long.
The public want a new Lewis and are looking to Harrison to be that person. I think we have to look else where.
Harrison will plod along and lose a fight against someone who is not top ten & fade away into the night wondering why it all went wrong & how come he didnt get into the hall of fame!
If he proves me wrong great
I dont think anyone have ever expected him to be as good as Lewis, thats plain ridiculous. Its clear to see that although Harrison obviously has talent its nowhere on the level of a hall of famer like Lewis.
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 06:11
by ABA Boxing
Its not ridiculous for people to want that & i said I think we have to look else where!
Its the same for Amir Khan! He is going to be the next World Champ retire at 25 & he hasn't even had a Pro fight!
Put Amir Khan against Kindelan in the first round at the Olympics & who is Amir Khan?
My point was that the British public want a Superstar in this country.
We have Ricky Hatton at the moment. We thought we had Audley we hope we have Amir!
All our hopes on a handful of fighters!
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 06:17
by nickd
ABA Boxing wrote:Its not ridiculous for people to want that & i said I think we have to look else where!
Its the same for Amir Khan! He is going to be the next World Champ retire at 25 & he hasn't even had a Pro fight!
Put Amir Khan against Kindelan in the first round at the Olympics & who is Amir Khan?
My point was that the British public want a Superstar in this country.
We have Ricky Hatton at the moment. We thought we had Audley we hope we have Amir!
All our hopes on a handful of fighters!
I've never thought Harrison would achieve anything close to what Lewis did, and I dont recall many people saying they thought he could either. I thought he had a chance of winning a world title and he still does given the state of the division at the moment.
Lewis was 22 when he won gold, Harrison was about to turn 29.
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 06:25
by Hesketh Vampire
nickd wrote:I dont think anyone have ever expected him to be as good as Lewis, thats plain ridiculous.
It seems ridiculous
now, 5 years into Harrison's pro career, but he actually turned pro with roughly the same amateur credentials as Lennox, a commonwealth gold followed by an olympic gold, along with a recent failure at a world championship. Lewis had an appearance at an earlier olympics and a junior world championship gold over Harrison, otherwise the achievements were very similar. In fact Audley's olympic gold was probably harder won than Lennox's.
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 06:49
by nickd
Hesketh wrote:nickd wrote:I dont think anyone have ever expected him to be as good as Lewis, thats plain ridiculous.
It seems ridiculous
now, 5 years into Harrison's pro career, but he actually turned pro with roughly the same amateur credentials as Lennox, a commonwealth gold followed by an olympic gold, along with a recent failure at a world championship. Lewis had an appearance at an earlier olympics and a junior world championship gold over Harrison, otherwise the achievements were very similar. In fact Audley's olympic gold was probably harder won than Lennox's.
What???? Lewis beat Bowe in the olympics. You cant be serious.
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 07:05
by Chambers2
ABA Boxing wrote:
The public want a new Lewis and are looking to Harrison to be that person. I think we have to look else where.
The public on the whole have done nothing but slate Audley, so I don't know how you can say that they are looking to Harrison to be the next Lewis.
(Lewis is the best British boxer of all time IMO and '
expecting' Audley(or anyone else) to replicate his achievements is unrealistic IMO)
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 07:49
by Hesketh Vampire
nickd wrote:What???? Lewis beat Bowe in the olympics. You cant be serious.
Of course, it's all with the benefit of hindsight that it seems daft. When Lewis and Bowe turned pro they didn't have the future IBHOF careers we know of now, just a lot of potential. Same with Harrison, he
could have been the best thing since sliced bread in 2000, that just sounds daft in 2005
See what I mean?
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 08:25
by nickd
Hesketh wrote:nickd wrote:What???? Lewis beat Bowe in the olympics. You cant be serious.
Of course, it's all with the benefit of hindsight that it seems daft. When Lewis and Bowe turned pro they didn't have the future IBHOF careers we know of now, just a lot of potential. Same with Harrison, he
could have been the best thing since sliced bread in 2000, that just sounds daft in 2005
See what I mean?
Well to me it was clear as day that Harrison won a gold in a relatively weak olympic competition at super heavy. And he has nowhere near the talents of Lewis, even at that young age you could tell Lewis was something special.
Please explain how Harrisons olympic gold was harder to win than Lewis', I really dont see that being anywhere near the case.
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 08:52
by Hesketh Vampire
nickd wrote:Well to me it was clear as day that Harrison won a gold in a relatively weak olympic competition at super heavy
Personally I don't think that's true, just my opinion.
nickd wrote:Please explain how Harrisons olympic gold was harder to win than Lewis', I really dont see that being anywhere near the case.
Simply because his gold came post-USSR, so he had to negotiate a Russian, a Ukrainian, an Italian, and a Kazakh. Lewis on the other hand had a Kenyan, a German, a walkover, and Bowe. Given the effectiveness of the Soviet amateur style, that makes for a trickier 4 fights. Audley really did do well in Sydney, to me that is beyond dispute, granted though he was older than Lewis who overall had a better amateur career.
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 10:57
by nickd
Hesketh wrote:nickd wrote:Well to me it was clear as day that Harrison won a gold in a relatively weak olympic competition at super heavy
Personally I don't think that's true, just my opinion.
nickd wrote:Please explain how Harrisons olympic gold was harder to win than Lewis', I really dont see that being anywhere near the case.
Simply because his gold came post-USSR, so he had to negotiate a Russian, a Ukrainian, an Italian, and a Kazakh. Lewis on the other hand had a Kenyan, a German, a walkover, and Bowe. Given the effectiveness of the Soviet amateur style, that makes for a trickier 4 fights. Audley really did do well in Sydney, to me that is beyond dispute, granted though he was older than Lewis who overall had a better amateur career.
Fair play, but Lewis had to beat Bowe, Harrison didnt have much to beat. Vidoz is about the only guy he beat who's doing alright as a pro isnt he?
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 11:15
by Hesketh Vampire
nickd wrote:Fair play, but Lewis had to beat Bowe, Harrison didnt have much to beat. Vidoz is about the only guy he beat who's doing alright as a pro isnt he?
That is true, but what I would say is that Harrison had to beat Lezin and Dildabekov, who were career amateurs with the kind of Soviet amateur styles that won international competitions. They probably wouldn't have made great pro's but they were extremely difficult to beat in amateur competition. Probably more so than Bowe, who had a more professional US style.
Audley's achievements in Sydney really did impress me, unfortunately though this has made the subsequent 5 years especially disappointing.
Posted: 29 Jun 2005, 13:06
by ABA Boxing
Ok take away the point of Lewis.
What would you expect from a Heavyweight Gold winner 5 years into his pro career?
A British Championship, European titles & be in the top 10 in the World. Thats what i thought and many others like me, i am the public!
We dont talk about other UK Heavyweights in the same way we disscuss Audley. Why is he any different from them. A Gold medal is why.
Audley has done everthing in Amateurs and nothing in the Pro game except make alot of noise.
I dont like to judge some people but will Khan go the same way? Dont tell me the public dont think they have a future World Champion with him. The same thoughts they had of Audley!
Big things were expected of him all that got big was his head!