BoxRec

theone, u severely underate marciano if u think he was no better than a jerry quarry.

silkov wrote:Joe by stoppage in about 9 rounds. He was faster and more powerful than Rocky and threw faster and more punches. Rocky never faced a fighter as feirce as Frazier....

and frazier never met anyone like the rock.marciano had the power tp take joe out(though i think points is more likely)and the toughness to suck it up.i can't see joe outlasting him.

Rocky never had the same food suplements of frazier you know that s why he had only 187 pounds, and he had the same size of frazier,so, can you imagine the strengh and power of Rocky with Cus D Amato as a coach and with 217 pounds.Frazier was a good fighter however they fought in different conditions,but for me the record of marciano means a very special athlete.
He was really tough mental and physically,so my vote is for Rocky the invincible fighter.

My question still stands unanswered, Did anyone see a fight that had either of these guys backing up? As I recall even Foreman caught Joe coming in and then knocked him sideways but I can't recall Rocky or Joe fighting going back for more than a moment just to regroup. I certainly can not recall an entire round where they were backpedaling. But I'm prone to senior moments. Help me out here.

If so I would like to get a hold of that fight to study how they did moving in that direction.

well rocky marciano had a different style than joe. its obvious that marciano fought in a low crouch while frazier bobbed and weaved. but though both men went forward, marciano kind of leaned back in his stance, while joe was always leaning forward with his head sticking out. i have to go but ill explain later.

dalek wrote:

silkov wrote:Joe by stoppage in about 9 rounds. He was faster and more powerful than Rocky and threw faster and more punches. Rocky never faced a fighter as feirce as Frazier....

and frazier never met anyone like the rock.marciano had the power tp take joe out(though i think points is more likely)and the toughness to suck it up.i can't see joe outlasting him.

What about Ali, Bonavena, chuvalo, Quarry and Foreman etc???... Frazier fought by far the better opposition and is a cut above Marciano imo...

you misunderstood what i meant.frazier fought some very good fighters,but noone LIKE the rock.

dalek wrote:you misunderstood what i meant.frazier fought some very good fighters,but noone LIKE the rock.

But the same goes for Marciano... he never fought anyone like Frazier. I think Frazier would be too strong for Marciano... too many people judge Joe by his losses to Foreman who probably would have did the same thing to Marciano that he did to Joe.

i don't know.i think rocky has a great chance with big george.i can see him swarming away maybe getting dropped but knocking the stuffing out of him late on.i have a fair few beating marciano its just these i can see him winning.

dalek wrote:i don't know.i think rocky has a great chance with big george.i can see him swarming away maybe getting dropped but knocking the stuffing out of him late on.i have a fair few beating marciano its just these i can see him winning.

I don't think Marciano had a better chin than Frazier and he was a slower starter so I can't see him lasting the early rounds with Foreman either.
I've watched a lot of Marciano and Frazier and Frazier was a faster puncher and busier, with more power. Also he didn't cut up as bad as Rocky other than in his fights with Ali who was a very 'cutting' puncher.
I think it'd be a close fight early on but Frazier would win by late ko or stoppage...

marciano had more power than frazier IMO. marcianos right was just as effective as fraziers left hook, but this is the reason i say marciano has more power, a big factor is marciano had better two fisted power. he could knock u out with either hand, frazier soley relied on his left hook.

also i dont think frazier is stronger than the rock. only 15 lbs seperated them and marciano was terribly strong for his weight.

marciano may not have had hand speed, but his punches were fast because he had a short reach and threw short compact punches.

i think marciano actually had a little more stamina than joe, not by much. and he was even more aggresive, and better than joe on the inside.




and i know u think rock was a bad early starter, but that wanst always the case. marciano had a lot of early round knockouts in his career. frazier was defintely one of the slowest starters i have seen in history.


i hate picking matchups like these, especially since both are so great and both i respect tremendously.

Marciano by KO or decision


i cant see any fight stopping marciano late. marciano was at his best in the late rounds and he was still firing punches away while the other guy was gassing or completely worn out.

i have a 1994 rRING magazine interview on frazier.

this is frazier''s ratings of heavyweights of all time

1. joe louis
2. rocky marciano
3. joe frazier



- though i dont think this matchup favors frazier based on style. i do rate him higly and think of him highly. i think frazier would beat holmes.

the list is a little biased and a little off, even though its his opinion, he clearly refused to put ali ahead of him, although i agree that marciano would win the fight.

theone, u severely underate marciano if u think he was no better than a jerry quarry.

Marciano is actually overrated. He was a very good and a tough fighter but also came along in one of the weakest eras in heavyweight boxing history. Quarry would have fared no worse than Marciano if he fought in that era. Rocky's biggest wins were against Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore.
Louis was way past his prime and had no business being in the ring.
Walcott was an old experienced but inconsistant pro when finaaly he defeated a faded Ezzard Charles for the title. Ezzard Charles was even more faded when he fought Marciano. He actually stood toe to toe with Marciano, cut him, and lost a close decision. In the second fight he was so scared he barely fought but still almost won by tko when he ripped Marciano's nose apart with a punch. The Archie Moore fight was another struggle. If you actually watch the fight you will see how clumsy Marciano could be, barely landing punches on a fighter right in front of him. Against someone like Frazier he would be lucky to get out the third round with his face intact. The same if he fough Liston. Ali and Holmes would have boxed circles around him. If he fought Foreman, it would be an accomplishment if he lasted as long as Frazier.
If you actually watched all these fighters fight and used your reason instead of your heart, you might see things my way. Being Quarry level, is not a bad thing at all.

tommorw when im sober, i will pick apart that statement THE ONE. but nor right now.

They're both serious sluggers, no doubt about it. But, as much as I admire The Rock, I'd have to go with Smokin' Joe on this one.
With Joe's style and power and ability to take a punch, I could see him jumping on Rocky and putting him away within 5-7 rounds.
However, if Rocky weathered the storm, I could see a late-round stoppage won by Rocky.
Styles make fights. Joe had a style that could have beaten Rocky. Rocky had stamina that would have made it very hard for Joe to accomplish that.

yeah well wlvrne its really when u think about it a toss up. i do give marciano the edge on the inside, with his short reach he has more leverage in his punches. i do give frazier the edge in handspeed, but marciano threw fast punches because they were short and diddnt travel far. a big factor i think, is marcianos abililty to knock u out with both hands while frazier soely relies on the left hook. i also give marciano the edge in stamina, and there chins are equal. id say there strength are even, marciano may be 20lbs ligther but he is very strong. rocks natural weight was 210lb-215. all of marcianos opponents said he was hands down the strongest person they ever fought. this even coming from archie moore, who fought many fighters over 220 lb.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:yeah well wlvrne its really when u think about it a toss up. i do give marciano the edge on the inside, with his short reach he has more leverage in his punches. i do give frazier the edge in handspeed, but marciano threw fast punches because they were short and diddnt travel far. a big factor i think, is marcianos abililty to knock u out with both hands while frazier soely relies on the left hook. i also give marciano the edge in stamina, and there chins are equal. id say there strength are even, marciano may be 20lbs ligther but he is very strong. rocks natural weight was 210lb-215. all of marcianos opponents said he was hands down the strongest person they ever fought. this even coming from archie moore, who fought many fighters over 220 lb.

Frazier threw the more punches and had the better power imo... he was also the faster starter and this would be the crucial thing, I think he would get onto Marciano early and not let him into the fight. Marciano would be cut up and stopped by the mid rounds. Frazier was just a cut above Marciano but he gets a bad deal because of his losses to Foreman, but Foreman would have koed Marciano as well.

This fight could go either way marciano by ko fraizer by ko this bout is to close to call thats all i got to say.

silkov wrote

Frazier threw the more punches and had the better power imo... he was also the faster starter and this would be the crucial thing, I think he would get onto Marciano early and not let him into the fight. Marciano would be cut up and stopped by the mid rounds. Frazier was just a cut above Marciano but he gets a bad deal because of his losses to Foreman, but Foreman would have koed Marciano as well.

frazier was by no means the fasterr starter. frazier was one of the worst starters. frazier was stunned time and time in early rounds like against manuel ramos, buster mathis, bonavena, ali etc. U THINK marciano was a slow starter based on two fights. watch marcianos other fights or read up on his other fights he had many many early round KOs. including harry kid matheews and walcott II.

what makes u say frazier had more power?????

- i think marciano had equal power in his right hand as frazier did in his left hook.

- and overall, how could u say frazier had more power when marciano could KO opponents with both hands???? frazier soely relied on his left hook to KNOCKOUT opponents. marciano had a devastating KO right hand, as well as a very good left hook.





silkov, frazier wasnt in his prime against foreman. frazier was 10lb overweight. i would have loved to see how a peak frazier fights foreman. and marciano due to STYLES would do alot better against foreman.



silkov, marciano was the better fighter on the inside. both had same chin and heart. frazier had more handspeed but AGAIN marciano threw fast punches inside becuase he had a short reach and the punches didnt travel far. marciano IMO had the slight better stamina. both had same strength.

silkov wrote

Frazier threw the more punches and had the better power imo... he was also the faster starter and this would be the crucial thing, I think he would get onto Marciano early and not let him into the fight. Marciano would be cut up and stopped by the mid rounds. Frazier was just a cut above Marciano but he gets a bad deal because of his losses to Foreman, but Foreman would have koed Marciano as well.

frazier was by no means the fasterr starter. frazier was one of the worst starters. frazier was stunned time and time in early rounds like against manuel ramos, buster mathis, bonavena, ali etc. U THINK marciano was a slow starter based on two fights. watch marcianos other fights or read up on his other fights he had many many early round KOs. including harry kid matheews and walcott II.

what makes u say frazier had more power?????

- i think marciano had equal power in his right hand as frazier did in his left hook.

- and overall, how could u say frazier had more power when marciano could KO opponents with both hands???? frazier soely relied on his left hook to KNOCKOUT opponents. marciano had a devastating KO right hand, as well as a very good left hook.





silkov, frazier wasnt in his prime against foreman. frazier was 10lb overweight. i would have loved to see how a peak frazier fights foreman. and marciano due to STYLES would do alot better against foreman.



silkov, marciano was the better fighter on the inside. both had same chin and heart. frazier had more handspeed but AGAIN marciano threw fast punches inside becuase he had a short reach and the punches didnt travel far. marciano IMO had the slight better stamina. both had same strength.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:silkov wrote

Frazier threw the more punches and had the better power imo... he was also the faster starter and this would be the crucial thing, I think he would get onto Marciano early and not let him into the fight. Marciano would be cut up and stopped by the mid rounds. Frazier was just a cut above Marciano but he gets a bad deal because of his losses to Foreman, but Foreman would have koed Marciano as well.

frazier was by no means the fasterr starter. frazier was one of the worst starters. frazier was stunned time and time in early rounds like against manuel ramos, buster mathis, bonavena, ali etc. U THINK marciano was a slow starter based on two fights. watch marcianos other fights or read up on his other fights he had many many early round KOs. including harry kid matheews and walcott II.

what makes u say frazier had more power?????

- i think marciano had equal power in his right hand as frazier did in his left hook.

- and overall, how could u say frazier had more power when marciano could KO opponents with both hands???? frazier soely relied on his left hook to KNOCKOUT opponents. marciano had a devastating KO right hand, as well as a very good left hook.





silkov, frazier wasnt in his prime against foreman. frazier was 10lb overweight. i would have loved to see how a peak frazier fights foreman. and marciano due to STYLES would do alot better against foreman.



silkov, marciano was the better fighter on the inside. both had same chin and heart. frazier had more handspeed but AGAIN marciano threw fast punches inside becuase he had a short reach and the punches didnt travel far. marciano IMO had the slight better stamina. both had same strength.

Well thats my opinion and we'll just have to agree to disagree. I actually have a whole bunch of fights of both Frazier and Marciano. Frazier was far more than a one handed fighter that you seem to be saying he was. Look at his fights with Bonavena, Quarry, Chuvalo, Ali, Frazier wasn't hitting them with one hand. The Frazier of '68-'71 was a higher gear more intense fighter than Marciano and I think he'd be too much for Rocky. Thats not to say that it wouldn't be a great fight though.

Wasn't Oscar Bonavena quite a bit like Marciano? I thought of him as being fairly similar to Marciano.

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Wasn't Oscar Bonavena quite a bit like Marciano? I thought of him as being fairly similar to Marciano.

There were simularities between them.... Bonavena was as strong as a ox and had good power. He probably had a better chin than Marciano.